League of Legends V22 - Welcome to the League of Draven - Games

[QUOTE=Jund;37070274]Except that it has a 5 year cd Leona's ult is 40 seconds less[/QUOTE] Nautilus is a single-target ult with supplemental crowd control if it goes through people on the way. Cooldown: 140 / 110 / 80 seconds Sejuani is a wide AoE stun that applies her passive which means activation of a 70% slow afterwards (It's basically like throwing an Amumu from 1,100 range). Cooldown: 130 / 115 / 100 seconds [editline]3rd August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Protocol7;37070323]that's dandy and all but you can't really crunch numbers for a game that's different every time you play a match. for "primarily ganking junglers" don't you want a heavier front-loaded burst and not consistent damage?[/QUOTE] Yes and no. You want that on Nautilus since he has no real way to hold people down after his burst, unless he spaces out all of his crowd control to the best of his ability. Sejuani will perma-slow people without a red buff and has three effective gap closers. Being able to persistently activate Northern Winds while chasing does a lot of damage. And I do mean a lot.

More damage and 20 seconds lower at max rank sounds good to me

Every time I see Sej ulti she just throws it and sorta jerks off

[QUOTE=Jund;37070316]If you're going to assume she gets all 5 seconds of her W in you might as well assume that Naut lands his full E or he autos 5 times[/QUOTE] Why would I? His W is dependent on a shield, in a team fight it explodes from AoE or it gets dropped with a few auto-attacks or spells. He's only going to get the few hits off. I rarely see a Nautilus get more than four uses of it in a team fight personally. You can't stop Sejuani's W, by comparison. Once it's activated, it's on for 5 seconds.

[QUOTE=Exploits;37070384]Why would I? His W is dependent on a shield, in a team fight it explodes from AoE or it gets dropped with a few auto-attacks or spells. He's only going to get the few hits off. I rarely see a Nautilus get more than four uses of it in a team fight personally. You can't stop Sejuani's W, by comparison. Once it's activated, it's on for 5 seconds.[/QUOTE] Nautilus is much more hybrid-like in that he can focus single targets very well and can still put out AoE damage in a teamfight. So yeah, in a teamfight, his shield goes poof in no time, but in a top lane gank it's gonna be devastating if he can pull it off. Sejuani dashes in and does fuck all

Seriously you act like every Sej ever plays amazingly, sure you might be good as her and thats great for you I guess but that doesnt mean that shes a good hero. In every single game I have played, no exception, sej has just been a bitch with high hp that blocks me from hitting the actual threats and getting in the way while being the last to die in a teamfight. Maybe she's good and everyone who plays her doesnt know how amazing she really is

[QUOTE=Protocol7;37070413]Nautilus is much more hybrid-like in that he can focus single targets very well and can still put out AoE damage in a teamfight[/QUOTE] This is true, you're actually the first person I've ever met that's said it before I did, usually I have to put it forward first. Nautilus' job in a team fight is to drop absurd single-target CC while throwing out some supplemental stuff to keep people off of him. He isn't going to solo an AD carry by any means, but he's going to fuck them up long enough that somebody else is going to show up and do the rest for him, and he'll be very hard to shake off by everyone else. Sejuani's role is also hybrid-esque, but closer to Amumu. She specializes in AoE crowd control and damage while being able to focus down a priority target for more damage/more persistent crowd control.

I think Sej is a pretty good champ too. Also, people like to overestimate Naut's passive like crazy. People think it's a 1-2 second stun. It's a .5 second snare. It's still hella good but be aware of his abilities at least.

[QUOTE=Louis;37070429]Seriously you act like every Sej ever plays amazingly, sure you might be good as her and thats great for you I guess but that doesnt mean that shes a good hero. In every single game I have played, no exception, sej has just been a bitch with high hp that blocks me from hitting the actual threats and getting in the way while being the last to die in a teamfight. Maybe she's good and everyone who plays her doesnt know how amazing she really is[/QUOTE] You act like every Nautilus plays amazingly. Sure you might be good as him and that's great for you I guess but that doesn't mean he's a good hero. In every single game I have played, no exception, Naut has just been a bitch with high hp that blocks me from hitting the actual threats and getting in the way while being the last to die in a teamfight.

[QUOTE=Bicko Blicko;37069065]So... how long did it take you guys to get ALL the champs, anyway?[/QUOTE] less than a year i spend way too much on this game

As a Nautilus player I really feel like lategame I can hold down one dude really well but not do a lot of AoE damage. His ult's secondary knockup is great, but more of a disrupt than a real CC. Sejuani could definitely use some work, but she's not bad. She does more AoE damage than Naut any day of the week and her ult is fantastic. [editline]3rd August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Exploits;37070474]You act like every Nautilus plays amazingly. Sure you might be good as him and that's great for you I guess but that doesn't mean he's a good hero. In every single game I have played, no exception, [b]Naut has just been a bitch with high hp that blocks me from hitting the actual threats and getting in the way while being the last to die in a teamfight.[/b][/QUOTE] You guys are saying this about Sejuani and Nautilus like it's a bad thing. If they're getting in the way and protecting their teammates, that's a good thing.

I really can't exaggerate the absurd strength of Sejuani's ganks, also. At level 6, if someone is at the river (Not even beyond it), and I gank with Sejuani, they're dead. Arctic Assault, Permafrost, and Glacial Prison are all effective as gap closers in themselves, which means you have at least three ways to get back on top of somebody. If you have Flash, that's four. If you have Shurelya's Reverie (Practically core on her), it's five. That's incredibly strong, and all of these things ignore minions entirely. [editline]3rd August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=NoShogun;37070492] You guys are saying this about Sejuani and Nautilus like it's a bad thing. If they're getting in the way and protecting their teammates, that's a good thing.[/QUOTE] Yeah, my post was sarcastic in response, but it's the point I was making. That's their exact job but he was putting it in a negative light for Sejuani while subtly saying Nautilus is awesome for doing the same thing.

[QUOTE=Exploits;37070474]You act like every Nautilus plays amazingly. Sure you might be good as him and that's great for you I guess but that doesn't mean he's a good hero. In every single game I have played, no exception, Naut has just been a bitch with high hp that blocks me from hitting the actual threats and getting in the way while being the last to die in a teamfight.[/QUOTE] ye ok stop

Sejuani may have more damage than nautilus, but this is like the argument of Veigar vs LB a while ago. Regardless of raw damage, both have reasons they're better and reasons they're worse its just that in Sej's case she has more damage (a whole 100 or so damage provided you hit everythign WOW) and everything else Naut beats her at. I don't want 100 or so more damage when Nautilus could also give me a 12 second stun, 10 second half-blitz pull, and a knockup on top of a slow that's better in most cases over sej's. Really, Sej has the perma-slow idea in mind but its just done so ridiculously poorly. Another thing is that Sej really lacks any sort of 'oomph' when you play her. When you play sejuani, you feel like you may as well just get rid of the boar, since that's how powerful you feel. When you play nautilus, you and the enemy team know how powerful you are just from the way you look. Minor detail, but hey. Sure you can theorycraft all you want but I know who I'd rather have on my team.

[QUOTE=Nintendo-Guy;37070552]ye ok stop[/QUOTE] No. Debate or fuck off.

The other thing is, if you want an AoE powerhouse, just play Amumu. He can deal more consistent AoE damage than either Naut or Sejuani. Sejuani's just not greatly designed. She's a hybrid of a couple champions that doesn't do anything great,.

[QUOTE=Exploits;37070581]No. Debate or fuck off.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Exploits;37070474]You act like every Nautilus plays amazingly. Sure you might be good as him and that's great for you I guess but that doesn't mean he's a good hero. In every single game I have played, no exception, Naut has just been a bitch with high hp that blocks me from hitting the actual threats and getting in the way while being the last to die in a teamfight.[/QUOTE] wow i cant handle this quality debating

plus if you miss your ult with Sej you just used half the reason you're there. With Naut, you've got two targeted stuns, so they're practically guaranteed hits.

[QUOTE=papaya;37070580]Another thing is that Sej really lacks any sort of 'oomph' when you play her. When you play sejuani, you feel like you may as well just get rid of the boar, since that's how powerful you feel. When you play nautilus, you and the enemy team know how powerful you are just from the way you look. Minor detail, but hey.[/QUOTE] That's the 'feel' issues RIOT wants to work on with Sejuani, but they haven't seem to have been able to get anywhere with it. I agree, though. When I charge into a Teemo with my 800 pound boar, he shouldn't make me stop in my tracks. [quote]Really, Sej has the perma-slow idea in mind but its just done so ridiculously poorly.[/quote] I had to think about this a lot in the past and I can't blame it. If you gave Sejuani a stronger passive slow (Remember, passive meaning that it's free, and it's free [i]all the time[/i]) and maintained the rest of her kit as it is now, she would honestly be brokenly overpowered. A 20% slow is equivalent to not wearing any boots at all in lane, and mix that in with a gap closer, an even stronger slow, and a one/two second ranged stun, plus an AoE that'll be doing extra damage, you'd never shake her off. [editline]3rd August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=papaya;37070620]plus if you miss your ult with Sej you just used half the reason you're there. With Naut, you've got two targeted stuns, so they're practically guaranteed hits.[/QUOTE] 'ehhhhh. Well to start her ult is incredibly hard to miss with. It has I think just 50-100 range less width than Amumu's ult. Even if you whiff it, once it pops it'll get you at least the one second stun and apply her passive for Permafrost. Yeah, direct hits are better though, and when you do fuck it up, there is a big different in advantage lost. It's like Amumu using his ult but the AD carry flashed out at the last moment.

[QUOTE=Exploits;37070631]That's the 'feel' issues RIOT wants to work on with Sejuani, but they haven't seem to have been able to get anywhere with it. I agree, though. When I charge into a Teemo with my 800 pound boar, he shouldn't make me stop in my tracks. I had to think about this a lot in the past and I can't blame it. If you gave Sejuani a stronger passive slow (Remember, passive meaning that it's free, and it's free [i]all the time[/i]) and maintained the rest of her kit as it is now, she would honestly be brokenly overpowered. A 20% slow is equivalent to not wearing any boots at all in lane, and mix that in with a gap closer, an even stronger slow, and a one/two second ranged stun, plus an AoE that'll be doing extra damage, you'd never shake her off.[/QUOTE] what if you made it stack? Maybe remove the apply frost thing from her Q, instead making it knockback like Rammus's Q. Then change her passive so it adds 7% every hit, capping at 21%. Then, make her Permafrost stun enemies with 3 stacks. Juggle the numbers a bit and I'm sure you're halfway to fixing Sej. or i'm wrong who knows

[QUOTE=Protocol7;37070590]The other thing is, if you want an AoE powerhouse, just play Amumu. He can deal more consistent AoE damage than either Naut or Sejuani. Sejuani's just not greatly designed. She's a hybrid of a couple champions that doesn't do anything great,.[/QUOTE] The difference between Amumu and Sejuani is that Amamu can pull you back from a losing game. His AoE is based off of the enemy's maximum health for damage, Sejuani's is based off of her own maximum health. That alone gives a good idea which does better for what. Sejuani does have to at least break even from the jungle to be truly effective, but she always has her ultimate even if she's lacking in damage.

The simple fact of the matter is that hard cc > soft cc Naut is beefier with a shield that can be used to sustain in jungle A little damage late game won't change that You can argue Sej's viability but saying that she's better than Naut is wrong

[QUOTE=papaya;37070667]what if you made it stack? Maybe remove the apply frost thing from her Q, instead making it knockback like Rammus's Q. Then change her passive so it adds 7% every hit, capping at 21%. Then, make her Permafrost stun enemies with 3 stacks. Juggle the numbers a bit and I'm sure you're halfway to fixing Sej. or i'm wrong who knows[/QUOTE] But how would it stack? If I Q'd into them, then auto-attacked, then hit E, would that apply three stacks, two, or just one? Even so, it comes back to the issue of her having three gap closers. Gangplank can get away with having a 21% stacking slow since he has no gap closer. All he can do is run really fast and remove crowd control once. [editline]3rd August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Jund;37070700]The simple fact of the matter is that hard cc > soft cc Naut is beefier with a shield that can be used to sustain in jungle A little damage late game won't change that You can argue Sej's viability but saying that she's better than Naut is wrong[/QUOTE] They don't function within the same role late-game, so I've never argued that. I do argue, however, that within the respects of jungling and ganking, Sejuani is better in my opinion.

[QUOTE=Exploits;37070702]But how would it stack? If I Q'd into them, then auto-attacked, then hit E, would that apply three stacks, two, or just one? Even so, it comes back to the issue of her having three gap closers. Gangplank can get away with having a 21% stacking slow since he has no gap closer. All he can do is run really fast and remove crowd control once.[/QUOTE] The change I said would make it so only auto-attacks and her ult would apply frost, meaning that she has those gapclosers, but now only her Ult would make hitting the rest of them easier. So hitting Q would send Sej into them, knock them back ala rammus powerball, then an autoattack would proc frost, granting 7% slow, then E would increase that to E level.

LETS JUST PLAY DARIUS AND KILL EVERYTHING

Except Naut can reduce jungle damage with his shield and his ganks are way better since they can't flash out of the initial burst Unless you plan on ganking once every 130 seconds

[QUOTE=papaya;37070752]The change I said would make it so only auto-attacks and her ult would apply frost, meaning that she has those gapclosers, but now only her Ult would make hitting the rest of them easier. So hitting Q would send Sej into them, knock them back ala rammus powerball, then an autoattack would proc frost, granting 7% slow, then E would increase that to E level.[/QUOTE] I don't know, I still think it would be broken as fuq. If it was as easy as just giving her a stacking slow, I feel like RIOT would have done that buff already, or even had it like that on release.

[QUOTE=polarbear.;37070753]LETS JUST PLAY DARIUS AND KILL EVERYTHING[/QUOTE] i like this idea fuck tanking lets carry

[QUOTE=Exploits;37070702]But how would it stack? If I Q'd into them, then auto-attacked, then hit E, would that apply three stacks, two, or just one? Even so, it comes back to the issue of her having three gap closers. Gangplank can get away with having a 21% stacking slow since he has no gap closer. All he can do is run really fast and remove crowd control once.[/QUOTE] Three gap closers? What

[QUOTE=Exploits;37070775]I don't know, I still think it would be broken as fuq. If it was as easy as just giving her a stacking slow, I feel like RIOT would have done that buff already, or even had it like that on release.[/QUOTE] the way you're capitalising RIOT makes it look as though you're either referring to them sarcastically (through emphasis e.g if only RIOT would fix this, ugh) or just missing how to write their name. I don't think it would be broken as fuck since consider Sej is pure melee, her only gapclosers being her Q, which I say would no longer apply frost, and her R which has a 130 second cooldown. Thus in order to apply any more than 1 stack of that, she'd need to auto-attack.