League of Legends V22 - Welcome to the League of Draven - Games

[QUOTE=rilez;36583004]Evelynn is a viable solo-top. Obviously not the best top, definitely under-powered, but viable if you know what you're doing. Worthless jungler though[/QUOTE] ? no.

what happened to yorick ult what the fuck

[QUOTE=rilez;36583108]she can trade very easily (passive and defensive masteries) very difficult to gank and can gank mid herself (quickly too). riotnome posted a great guide for it. not to mention people don't take you seriously as eve and make dumb mistakes eve top with a few ganks early on ain't nothin' to fuck with[/QUOTE] uh she can't trade at all E is just one medium damage nuke, and Q does 0 damage, and she is squishy as fuck... any conventional solo top will rape her so hard it isn't even funny and if you are going to rely on getting numerous ganks to win the lane, then don't even play top [editline]2nd July 2012[/editline] and she has no sustained damage to 1v1, even with ult she has no AD to back it up

So it turns out I CAN pull off 10 CS/minute... when there's nothing but a beginner difficulty MF on the other team. I'll just keep practicing until I can do it consistently against real people.

[QUOTE=Laferio;36583649]? no.[/QUOTE] well thought out and detailed response you've completely changed my mind [editline]1st July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Flubadoo;36583823]uh she can't trade at all E is just one medium damage nuke, and Q does 0 damage, and she is squishy as fuck... any conventional solo top will rape her so hard it isn't even funny and if you are going to rely on getting numerous ganks to win the lane, then don't even play top [editline]2nd July 2012[/editline] and she has no sustained damage to 1v1, even with ult she has no AD to back it up[/QUOTE] you're underestimating her ability to tank creep in early lane situations stealth slow into ravage + some auto attacks and Q is an amazing harass and you will generally win the trade because creep can't do shit to you. also it's a completely amazing way to set up a gank it isn't complete reliance on jungle, either. for example i just had colourr gank my lane twice as mundo and I was set for the rest of the match (versus a teemo). if you get absolutely nothing from your jungle, you can passively farm your bom and sheen at the tower and gank mid that way

the thing is though, everybody will do solotop better i can't think of a single part of evelynn that another top laner can't do better, besides stealth, which isn't that useful.

[QUOTE=Big Ben;36583899]the thing is though, everybody will do solotop better i can't think of a single part of evelynn that another top laner can't do better, besides stealth, which isn't that useful.[/QUOTE] she's great at trading, can set up easy ganks top, can't really be ganked herself, and can gank mid incredibly fast once she picks up BoM

and then the enemy team starts buying oracles, it hits the 20 minute mark and you're useless

[QUOTE=polarbear.;36582979]i can't stop doing good with fiora, why do you all think she's bad?[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://i48.tinypic.com/20t2ets.png[/IMG] these were against actually decent teams. I got countered hard by a malphite and I still dished out ridiculous amounts of damage. Laning is so easy, lunge at them and get a few auto attacks in with your E, wait 10 seconds for cooldown then repeat + ult at their turret, free kill

You play against people who don't know how to buy armor. Consistently.

[QUOTE=Big Ben;36583973]and then the enemy team starts buying oracles, it hits the 20 minute mark and you're useless[/QUOTE] kill them, waste their gold just because they have oracles doesn't mean you're useless. use the brush, use your team, use your brain.

[QUOTE=Jergee;36583991]You play against people who don't know how to buy armor. Consistently.[/QUOTE] once you get BT + Last whisper you can even beat the shit out of a malphite

[QUOTE=polarbear.;36584004]once you get BT + Last whisper you can even beat the shit out of a malphite[/QUOTE] I suppose, I haven't really played against too many Fioras recently, I'm not sure what kind of carnage she could produce.

[QUOTE=rilez;36583854] you're underestimating her ability to tank creep in early lane situations stealth slow into ravage + some auto attacks and Q is an amazing harass and you will generally win the trade because creep can't do shit to you. also it's a completely amazing way to set up a gank it isn't complete reliance on jungle, either. for example i just had colourr gank my lane twice as mundo and I was set for the rest of the match (versus a teemo). if you get absolutely nothing from your jungle, you can passively farm your bom and sheen at the tower and gank mid that way[/QUOTE] are you serious evelynn E: Magic Damage: 80 / 135 / 190 / 255 / 320 (+1.0 per ability power) + Magic Damage To Main Target: 25 / 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 (+0.42 per ability power) that is the extent of her harass. Add in a few autoattacks and you have around 500 or so raw damage. and when you have to get into melee range and spend ridiculous mana to go invis then E then you will go oom soon, and since you have to reveal yourself in 200 range of the enemy laner, they can just rape your face in since you have no more escapes. oh yeah, and you have no hard CC to prevent the enemy laner from coming back at you lets look at conventional solo tops darius: 105 / 157.5 / 210 / 262.5 / 315 (+1.05 per bonus attack damage) + 12 / 15 / 18 / 21 / 24 / 27 / 30 / 33 / 36 (+0.3 per bonus attack damage) (passive) for just his Q. then if he uses W and a few autoattacks, you easily have over 600-700 raw damage, then he'll finish you with ult Olaf: Physical Damage: 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260 (+1 per bonus attack damage) + True Damage to Target: 100 / 160 / 220 / 280 / 340 add on his steroid and you have over 700 damage with just one extra autoattack Riven: Total Physical Damage: 90 / 165 / 240 / 315 / 390 (+2.1 per bonus attack damage) +Physical Damage: 50 / 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 (+1.0 per bonus attack damage) around 600 damage or more if you consider her passive above comparisons are without ultimates and two maxed skills on her passive: it might be useful before level 3, but after level 3, unless both of you have a ridiculously large creep wave stacked (this is actually practically impossible at such an early level, since neither of you have enough damage/health to freeze the lane effectively hell eve top is so bad that i bet if you sent [b]wickd[/b] against me as evelynn top i could still beat him with someone like darius, riven, olaf, xin zhao, skarner, or anyone really [editline]2nd July 2012[/editline] you forgot to include that in the time you add in a few autoattacks and Q, the enemy top laner has so much damage eve would be dead [editline]2nd July 2012[/editline] it's not really considered as "harassing" if you take more than 2 seconds to do it, and if eve gets in range to harass, she's as good as fucked

I don't really know why you'd play eve solo top when twitch is probably a ton better for it He even deals true damage so your typical solo top can't just stack resistances against you edit: this is assuming you want a champion with full stealth

[QUOTE=Espio;36584292]I don't really know why you'd play eve solo top when twitch is probably a ton better for it He even deals true damage so your typical solo top can't just stack resistances against you edit: this is assuming you want a champion with full stealth[/QUOTE] twitch isn't as mobile and lacks the same burst potential

Why would you play evelynn in the first place

[QUOTE=rilez;36583995]kill them, waste their gold just because they have oracles doesn't mean you're useless. use the brush, use your team, use your brain.[/QUOTE] We went up vs an Evelynn who was 23/2/5 with full build at the 30 minute mark. We STILL stomped them hard, because Evelynn is absolutely useless.

the one reason that twitch is better than eve solo top as well is that he's ranged and can harass with his passive, and you can play him like how you would play any other (except draven and corki and ezreal maybe) AD top, but won't work out after a few levels. [editline]2nd July 2012[/editline] if eve goes out of stealth to "burst" the enemy top laner she's fucked since she can't run away except for flash and other summoner spells, and the enemy laner, if conventional solo top, will always have more damage to trade back, and will kill her easily

[QUOTE=Flubadoo;36584077]other tops have more damage than eve[/QUOTE] you left out eve's huge mr/armor shred and incredible AS steroid i said she was an underpowered top. you're comparing stats with the most broken top in the game without taking into account other variables like ganks and general mistakes by the other top. i didn't say she was better than darius (because damage means everything apparently), but if you know what you're doing she's a viable pick and can win lanes. if you want to play this direct comparison game, darius is much more susceptible to being ganked, and he can't control mid lane at all (which top eve can)

her slow is also shit since you would be presumably maxing E to "burst" the enemy, while the enemy laner (who is usually AD) will have autoattacks that deal a lot of damage, as well as more than just one spell to deal damage

[QUOTE=polarbear.;36584351]Why would you play evelynn in the first place[/QUOTE] She's fun to play.

and then we can compare that ultimate to riven, who not only gets a really strong nuke, but also a 20% increase in AD and jax with armor/mr increase, as well as an awesome proc that is more significant than an attack speed/movespeed steroid, since attack speed scales off of AD, which you won't have in abundance early game. attack speed is also only good for direct 1v1s, and enemy laners would have stronger steroids and nukes combined in their skillset. also if you decide to buy AD on evelynn, you gimp her nuke, which means negative synergy, which is never good on any champion also it's only a [b]25%[/b] as increase level 1, and 20% movespeed. the movespeed is nice, but that'll help you run away, since the 20% attack speed sure as hell won't bring you in line with anyone else. probably every single ultimate at level 1 is better than that and 10-26 armor/mr reduced is really, really, really, insignificant if you compare it to other abilities and you can only control mid as eve or as any other champion as a top laner if you have dominance over the lane and control your own lane first. controlling your own lane is a pre-requisite to roaming, and that most likely won't happen with eve top.

[QUOTE=Flubadoo;36584399]her slow is also shit since you would be presumably maxing E to "burst" the enemy, while the enemy laner (who is usually AD) will have autoattacks that deal a lot of damage, as well as more than just one spell to deal damage[/QUOTE] Top Eve [B]doesn't[/B] have auto attacks that do a lot of damage? You think I build her as a caster? E isn't the burst. E shreds resistance, which allows your auto attack (which will almost always have Sheen/Trin proc) to burst. The damage from E is a bonus. You don't trade much pre-sheen, unless you're setting up a gank.

[QUOTE=Flubadoo;36582645]traits of initiation: -gives your whole team good positioning so they can rape, this is done by: a) locking down a single person on enemy team completely b) locking whole team down ezreal's ult is none of those...[/QUOTE] oh, that makes sense. i thought initiation was just something to start or begin the teamfight

[QUOTE=Flubadoo;36584459]and then we can compare that ultimate to riven, who not only gets a really strong nuke, but also a 20% increase in AD and jax with armor/mr increase, as well as an awesome proc that is more significant than an attack speed/movespeed steroid, since attack speed scales off of AD, which you won't have in abundance early game. attack speed is also only good for direct 1v1s, and enemy laners would have stronger steroids and nukes combined in their skillset. also if you decide to buy AD on evelynn, you gimp her nuke, which means negative synergy, which is never good on any champion also it's only a [b]25%[/b] as increase level 1, and 20% movespeed. the movespeed is nice, but that'll help you run away, since the 20% attack speed sure as hell won't bring you in line with anyone else. probably every single ultimate at level 1 is better than that and 10-26 armor/mr reduced is really, really, really, insignificant if you compare it to other abilities and you can only control mid as eve or as any other champion as a top laner if you have dominance over the lane and control your own lane first. controlling your own lane is a pre-requisite to roaming, and that most likely won't happen with eve top.[/QUOTE] oh my god if you love your numbers and spreadsheets so much why don't you play EVE

woop de doo 10-26 armor/mr reduction you have to put that into context when you compare the extra damage gained from that (at level 9, 26 armor shred on a 80-100 armor target would be a 13-17% amplification in autoattack damage), whereas you have people like riven, who get insane increases in autoattack damage from her passive, udyr with his tiger stance that also gives stupid amounts of attack speed, which means in the end that [b]extra attack speed and extra AD steroids that other champions offer are infinitely more useful than the shitty little resist shred from eve[/b] [editline]2nd July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=AlphaGunman;36584493]oh my god if you love your numbers and spreadsheets so much why don't you play EVE[/QUOTE] do you think i havent? i've done it to troll/have fun (she's really fun to play) and i've played jungle eve, bot eve with zilean (lmao), and top eve, and have always gotten stomped because i can't do shit walking ward also i only very rarely play her because she's bad and i don't want to waste 20 minutes of the 4 other people on my team

[QUOTE=Flubadoo;36584495]woop de doo 10-26 armor/mr reduction you have to put that into context when you compare the extra damage gained from that (at level 9, 26 armor shred on a 80-100 armor target would be a 13-17% amplification in autoattack damage), whereas you have people like riven, who get insane increases in autoattack damage from her passive, udyr with his tiger stance that also gives stupid amounts of attack speed, which means in the end that [b]extra attack speed and extra AD steroids that other champions offer are infinitely more useful than the shitty little resist shred from eve[/b] [editline]2nd July 2012[/editline] do you think i havent? i've done it to troll/have fun (she's really fun to play) and i've played jungle eve, bot eve with zilean (lmao), and top eve, and have always gotten stomped because i can't do shit walking ward also i only very rarely play her because she's bad and i don't want to waste 20 minutes of the 4 other people on my team[/QUOTE] by EVE i mean EVE online not eve

Eve is worthless because she doesn't have things other champions have! Riven has an AD steroid, but Evelynn's ASPD steroid doesn't count because she's just bad. Morgana is bad, why would you play her when Veigar's ult does way more damage? Garen is terrible because Darius is better in every way. In the end comparing champions like this is really dumb because it doesn't take into account player skill or any other variables. You're looking at numbers and nothing else, assume ceteris paribus and that's all there is to it. Evelynn isn't the best solo top. I said in the first post that she was under powered. I also said she was viable in the right hands and the right circumstances. And she's certainly not useless.

i dont get why everyone derides zilean as a support just finished a game as him, bot lane with cait vs enemy cait and akali, i spent the entire lane phase just sneaking timebombs onto them until they were so busy trying to not come near me that our cait basically had free farm up to lv4, and eventually akali switched lanes with brolaf out of frustration his strengths lie in the fact that his timebomb is delayed; it acts as a deterrent because whereas most damage is just "oh i got hit better luck next time" with zilean its like "oh god oh god theres a bomb on me shit what do" for four seconds even without the great delayed harass zilean's time warp is excellent all-around. morgana running away? time warp fiddlesticks to get him into fear range. brolaf fighting nocturne 1v1? run up and timewarp him and suddenly he's in a 3v1 with a pseudo-exhaust and naturally his ult is basically the holy grail of support. we got into a teamfight and our cait naturally got focused for being 5/1 and having high cs. i timewarp myself, run straight into the fight, ult cait just as she's about to die, enemy cait wastes her ult on me, our cait comes back to life and proceeds to go from being focused down to mopping up stragglers they surrendered at 20 :v: