[QUOTE=M.Ciaster;35867234]Holy hell, now that was an unexpected turn of events. Let's just hope that this Stixmaster guy doesn't start posting in here.[/QUOTE]
"jess you weight, i've got my eyes on this threads"
[QUOTE=Supermoose76;35866791]I'll be back later everyone. I'm heading to the gym for a bit but i'll be back to respond to anything that is posted.[/QUOTE]
Can you explain how so much of Left 4 Dead 2 ended up in your game such as the menu's and the console commands.
[QUOTE=steven688;35867641]This is honestly the worst game I have ever came across.[/QUOTE]
Big Rigs is much worse. At least this one is functional.
[QUOTE=megafat;35867745]Can you explain how so much of Left 4 Dead 2 ended up in your game such as the menu's and the console commands.[/QUOTE]
It's based on L4D2
[QUOTE=Dr Bob;35867716]"jess you weight, i've got my eyes on this threads"[/QUOTE]
Reading this is pretty hard because whenever you say 'Jess' I'm thinking of one of my good friends Jesse.
Honestly, [b]if[/b] everything supermoose has said is true, I feel for the dev team. If they actually jumped the gun with development and release without first gaining the experience necessary to create and market a decent game, then I honestly hope that they figure things out.
Beneath the extraordinarily dated graphics and the bizarre animations, there has to be a game worth playing down there. The idea of four people being randomly warped into the world of the Mayan Apocalypse to fight seems like it'd be interesting and possibly even entertaining is there, but it just hasn't been fleshed out yet, and I hate to say it, but at this point it needs months, maybe even [b]years[/b] to reach the level of visual quality that it needs to compete as a serious game.
[editline]8th May 2012[/editline]
And I've not even mentioned the sound effects and voice-overs, but that's probably the least of your concerns.
[QUOTE=ewitwins;35867828]Honestly, [b]if[/b] everything supermoose has said is true, I feel for the dev team. If they actually jumped the gun with development and release without first gaining the experience necessary to create and market a decent game, then I honestly hope that they figure things out.
Beneath the extraordinarily dated graphics and the bizarre animations, there has to be a game worth playing down there. The idea of four people being randomly warped into the world of the Mayan Apocalypse to fight seems like it'd be interesting and possibly even entertaining is there, but it just hasn't been fleshed out yet, and I hate to say it, but at this point it needs months, maybe even [b]years[/b] to reach the level of visual quality that it needs to compete as a serious game.
[editline]8th May 2012[/editline]
And I've not even mentioned the sound effects and voice-overs, but that's probably the least of your concerns.[/QUOTE]
I didn't understand why they used mo-cap until Moose explained he did the famous dance taunts himself. So there you go. They'd be better off with just traditional skeleton animation and making sure their transitions work.
You're right that their visual quality needs to improve, but I think that might be heard in the wrong way, like "oh, we need Unreal 3 instead of Source" or something. I think level design and AI behaviours are their biggest problems. I don't think this team understands what makes a good map, or how quickly amateur designers got that sophistication together back with the first Half Life.
[QUOTE=ewitwins;35867828]Honestly, [b]if[/b] everything supermoose has said is true, I feel for the dev team. If they actually jumped the gun with development and release without first gaining the experience necessary to create and market a decent game, then I honestly hope that they figure things out.
Beneath the extraordinarily dated graphics and the bizarre animations, there has to be a game worth playing down there. The idea of four people being randomly warped into the world of the Mayan Apocalypse to fight seems like it'd be interesting and possibly even entertaining is there, but it just hasn't been fleshed out yet, and I hate to say it, but at this point it needs months, maybe even [b]years[/b] to reach the level of visual quality that it needs to compete as a serious game.
[editline]8th May 2012[/editline]
And I've not even mentioned the sound effects and voice-overs, but that's probably the least of your concerns.[/QUOTE]
No this game has no hope.
Supermoose seems pretty all right.
[QUOTE=ewitwins;35867828]Honestly, [b]if[/b] everything supermoose has said is true, I feel for the dev team. If they actually jumped the gun with development and release without first gaining the experience necessary to create and market a decent game, then I honestly hope that they figure things out.
Beneath the extraordinarily dated graphics and the bizarre animations, there has to be a game worth playing down there. The idea of four people being randomly warped into the world of the Mayan Apocalypse to fight seems like it'd be interesting and possibly even entertaining is there, but it just hasn't been fleshed out yet, and I hate to say it, but at this point it needs months, maybe even [b]years[/b] to reach the level of visual quality that it needs to compete as a serious game.
[editline]8th May 2012[/editline]
And I've not even mentioned the sound effects and voice-overs, but that's probably the least of your concerns.[/QUOTE]
People are having fun with how ridiculous the game is, I'm sure if they tried to make a non-series FPS game like Serious Sam I'm sure they'd succeed.
[QUOTE=Linkmister;35866147]if Stixmaster finds this we'll be treated to spelling errors of the fifth kind.[/QUOTE]
[url=http://i.imgur.com/M9Yfx.png]Yeah, about that...[/url]
Supermoose is a nice guy, its just Stixmaster that makes the company look bad.
[QUOTE=superstepa;35867775]It's based on L4D2[/QUOTE]
Doesn't explain why you can spawn pills when there aren't meant to be pills in this game.
You technically can't spawn pills since you never see them. If you do "give pain_pills" in console, your weapon will disappear. If you left click, it'll go "You don't need to take pain pills" if you have full HP. Never tried with less than 100 hp though.
[QUOTE=BaCkStAbEr;35868261]Supermoose is a nice guy, its just Stixmaster that makes the company look bad.[/QUOTE]
But the company IS bad, for actually releasing this shit and keeping the disgusting facade on the steam forums.
I love how Stixmaster is the one who made the game popular to hate since he's such a belligerent asshole, and now this moose guy comes on here with a nice attitude and turns it all around.
I might just buy the game to help recuperate the costs put into this, because I'm sure some of the members working in the team have some potential. Just remember to take that one dude who wants to be a billionaire and tape his mouth shut; he's worse than Peter Molyneux.
[QUOTE=mixshifter;35868381]You technically can't spawn pills since you never see them. If you do "give pain_pills" in console, your weapon will disappear. If you left click, it'll go "You don't need to take pain pills" if you have full HP. Never tried with less than 100 hp though.[/QUOTE]
I tried taking pills with less then 100 HP once.
Game crashed. :v:
I just got back home. Give me 15 more minutes and I'll be back to replying to questions from page 17 and on. :)
[editline]8th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Blooper Reel;35866814]Anyways, if there's another thing that irks me, I feel as though the player models seem a bit weird. Some of their textures are kind of flat and it gives sort of a poser vibe, and the weapon definitely needs sound and texture improvements.
If you ask me, it's best to get references for texturing and modeling.[/QUOTE]
Our artist didn't get much time to spend on the characters. We had just learned about zbrush. If he had more time than what he had got. The models would of looked so much better.
Oh another thing about the steam group called "get me zbrush" That was my idea. I wanted to see if my sister's steam friends would donate to us to get us zbrush for our artist. I was trying to make it a surprise to him. :)
Gotta say I'm incredibly impressed with Supermoose. From the amateurishness of the game we were all expecting something childish and angry to come from the devs, but you're staying calm and polite in the face of all FP's potential for hatred.
If you keep up an attitude like that and work on your production, you guys just might go somewhere after all. Kudos.
SuperMoose. You seem like a cool dude. You're handling yourself well here compared to the SPUF, obviously.
DAE should make you PR. Since everyone else will probably end up making themselves look like fools.
[QUOTE=M.Ciaster;35867234]Holy hell, now that was an unexpected turn of events. Let's just hope that this Stixmaster guy doesn't start posting in here.[/QUOTE]
I won't let him know ;)
[editline]8th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=megafat;35867745]Can you explain how so much of Left 4 Dead 2 ended up in your game such as the menu's and the console commands.[/QUOTE]
We were working from the l4d2 engine. I guess we didn't see it as much as a problem. We were given the ok from valve.
[editline]8th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=ewitwins;35867828]Honestly, [b]if[/b] everything supermoose has said is true, I feel for the dev team. If they actually jumped the gun with development and release without first gaining the experience necessary to create and market a decent game, then I honestly hope that they figure things out.
Beneath the extraordinarily dated graphics and the bizarre animations, there has to be a game worth playing down there. The idea of four people being randomly warped into the world of the Mayan Apocalypse to fight seems like it'd be interesting and possibly even entertaining is there, but it just hasn't been fleshed out yet, and I hate to say it, but at this point it needs months, maybe even [b]years[/b] to reach the level of visual quality that it needs to compete as a serious game.
[editline]8th May 2012[/editline]
And I've not even mentioned the sound effects and voice-overs, but that's probably the least of your concerns.[/QUOTE]
We are going to make a portal that the four heroes actually cross threw to get to this dimension.
[editline]8th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Otherhand;35867956]I didn't understand why they used mo-cap until Moose explained he did the famous dance taunts himself. So there you go. They'd be better off with just traditional skeleton animation and making sure their transitions work.
You're right that their visual quality needs to improve, but I think that might be heard in the wrong way, like "oh, we need Unreal 3 instead of Source" or something. I think level design and AI behaviours are their biggest problems. I don't think this team understands what makes a good map, or how quickly amateur designers got that sophistication together back with the first Half Life.[/QUOTE]
I created 5 multiplayer maps for this game "The forest, forest battle grounds map, gates of rupture, mayan city, steam bath" I believe my maps need a lot of touching up. The gates of rupture is actually being touched up by the real mapper. He is very slow but he does make the geometry so much better than I can. I really want to touch up the mayan city to give it more depth to it.
[editline]8th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=mixshifter;35868051]Supermoose seems pretty all right.[/QUOTE]
Thank you and I'm glad to be talking to you all.
[editline]8th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=whointhe;35868246][url=http://i.imgur.com/M9Yfx.png]Yeah, about that...[/url][/QUOTE]
I'll change that post in a second. :)
you guys have potential to do a much better project, but you gotta discipline yourselves to do so
i've been practicing amateur sound design for a while now, so i know what it's like to be part of a small dev team
i hope Dark Artz manages to pull off a good product in the future, and that the lessons learned from Relevations 2012 carries onto your next possible project
[QUOTE=megafat;35868353]Doesn't explain why you can spawn pills when there aren't meant to be pills in this game.[/QUOTE]
I'll let our programmer know this. He plans to clean our folders up some more.
[editline]8th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;35868549]I love how Stixmaster is the one who made the game popular to hate since he's such a belligerent asshole, and now this moose guy comes on here with a nice attitude and turns it all around.
I might just buy the game to help recuperate the costs put into this, because I'm sure some of the members working in the team have some potential. Just remember to take that one dude who wants to be a billionaire and tape his mouth shut; he's worse than Peter Molyneux.[/QUOTE]
You have no clue what comes out of his mouth ;) He likes to sing lots of songs but doesn't know the lyrics to any of them. lol I hope I don't start doing it myself... oh wait that is my father. CRAP i'm FUCKED. :)
[editline]8th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kyo;35868881]I tried taking pills with less then 100 HP once.
Game crashed. :v:[/QUOTE]
You can also spawn hunter claws but it will also crash the game. Unless the programmer took that out.
[editline]8th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=NanoSquid;35869360]Gotta say I'm incredibly impressed with Supermoose. From the amateurishness of the game we were all expecting something childish and angry to come from the devs, but you're staying calm and polite in the face of all FP's potential for hatred.
If you keep up an attitude like that and work on your production, you guys just might go somewhere after all. Kudos.[/QUOTE]
Thank you!! I try my best to communicate back wisely ;)
[editline]8th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Brt5470;35869375]SuperMoose. You seem like a cool dude. You're handling yourself well here compared to the SPUF, obviously.
DAE should make you PR. Since everyone else will probably end up making themselves look like fools.[/QUOTE]
Thank you!! I try to communicate with tiger_lily when she posts but I trust the things she says. She also has way better grammar structure than I do.
I also watched your video you made of revelations :)
[editline]8th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ownederd;35869631]you guys have potential to do a much better project, but you gotta discipline yourselves to do so
i've been practicing amateur sound design for a while now, so i know what it's like to be part of a small dev team
i hope Dark Artz manages to pull off a good product in the future, and that the lessons learned from Relevations 2012 carries onto your next possible project[/QUOTE]
There is so much we have learned. We're just going to start working on improving the game with "NO DEADLINES" this time. We have rushed our selfs do much that it has shown a lot on our game. So hopefully we can scrap the bad and make it better.
[QUOTE=Supermoose76;35869641]I'll let our programmer know this. He plans to clean our folders up some more.
[editline]8th May 2012[/editline]
You have no clue what comes out of his mouth ;) He likes to sing lots of songs but doesn't know the lyrics to any of them. lol I hope I don't start doing it myself... oh wait that is my father. CRAP i'm FUCKED. :)
[editline]8th May 2012[/editline]
You can also spawn hunter claws but it will also crash the game. Unless the programmer took that out.
[editline]8th May 2012[/editline]
Thank you!! I try my best to communicate back wisely ;)
[editline]8th May 2012[/editline]
Thank you!! I try to communicate with tiger_lily when she posts but I trust the things she says. She also has way better grammar structure than I do.
I also watched your video you made of revelations :)
[editline]8th May 2012[/editline]
There is so much we have learned. We're just going to start working on improving the game with "NO DEADLINES" this time. We have rushed our selfs do much that it has shown a lot on our game. So hopefully we can scrap the bad and make it better.[/QUOTE]
Need another mapper? Here's some stuff I've made in the past:
[IMG]http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/large/eabbd2b016d0e2d9719a1f1c49af8de9c21119c5.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/large/34c38895d820a0e969639d290c23d4f6cf6e4686.jpg[/IMG]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/I1uG0.png[/t]
[QUOTE=Otherhand;35867956]I didn't understand why they used mo-cap until Moose explained he did the famous dance taunts himself. So there you go. They'd be better off with just traditional skeleton animation and making sure their transitions work.[/QUOTE]
Nah for stuff like dancing it's usually best to do mo-cap, allow me to explain.
You see, mo-cap's biggest strength is getting a great looking animation with a decent amount of effort and a good actor, this process goes MUCH quicker than having somebody hand-animate everything. In terms of hand animation, it works best for sequences that can't be mo-capped or sequences that or too long to be mo-capped.
To break it down:
We see mo-capped animations everywhere now a days, especially in gaming. We see them all the time in games like L4D, CoD, BF, etc. Where short sequences are acted out, captured, then imported in-game. I don't think I need to link a video as we see this all the time.
Hand animation's biggest strength is having full control of it, you made it yourself, you tweak it yourself. So in hand animated stuff we can see higher emphasis on things like character movement, emotion, etc. The main downside however, is just the amount of work required to do things like this, and the amount of time, you can spend 2 or more hours trying to get a good looking character reload animation in Maya, but get an equally better version in 30 minutes to an hour if you just mo-cap. Now, we don't see hand animation too much outside of first person stuff, however it is still prevalent in today's society. We see it in movies like Shrek, Toy Story, Up, pretty much any movie made by Pixar or Dreamworks. While in gaming, we mostly see it in Blizzard's stuff, by stuff I mean [i][b]EVERYTHING.[/b][/i]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZcg1BHJ_5A&feature=related[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCr7y4SLhck[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlhWqmVeDno&feature=plcp[/media]
From their CGI cinematics, down to their games, everything Blizzard does is hand-animated, and it shows. You can notice a greater deal of emphasis in just about everything they do, stuff that would be hard to capture if done in mo-cap. And it's not just them, Blur Studios also hand animates things as well
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7Nf-m6WGl4[/media]
TL;DR Mo-cap is great for short sequences (1 - 30 seconds long) you can get a great looking animation in a shorter amount of time. Hand animation is better for longer sequences (anything past 30 seconds) since it allows us to move past the fatigue the motion capture artist might endure and also allows us to give us a better emphasis in just about everything, but we need both a highly skilled animator and a lot of time to achieve great results
I don't usually ever post but I got a question.
How the fuck did you guys raise the venture capital to license valve's engine? Hope you guys recoop your investment at least. Shit I might buy a copy just for shitz and gigglez.. not like its gonna be the WORST thing I ever spent money on.... lol
Half life 3 ARG.
And I got a copy of this for 1 key in tf2 this should be fun
[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;35870208]Half life 3 ARG.[/QUOTE]
Supermoose is Gaben
[QUOTE=Linkmister;35870067]Nah for stuff like dancing it's usually best to do mo-cap, allow me to explain... [/QUOTE]
Agreed, but the game shouldn't have dancing. It should have idle animations and button-pushing animations. It should have some animation in the first-person view, since you see that gun arm more than anything else in the game, but all we get is the tiniest bit of recoil in the arm which is otherwise permafixed in one position. With mo-capping, you'd expect to see character step around when looking in different directions at a dead stop, but the feet slide around in contact with the floor instead.
These characters don't breathe, like the characters in every decent HL1 mod did (granted, 99% of us were using the game's stock "_idle" motions, but they were there!). The game doesn't require any use of cover so you don't see crouching, let alone any animation that integrates with the environment. They run around stiffly with their heads in a fixed height and position, just like the "left the coat hanger in my shirt" characters from the earliest years of polygonal FPS games, so why the mo-cap?
Mo-cap's a great time-saver for an experienced animator, but this team has employed it as a replacement for having to learn how to animate. That's my point, really. They've wasted money, and hurt themselves in the long run because they're still lacking important experience that the team desperately needs.
---
Supermoose, I respect you for being able to pull off those moves, but the inclusion of those movements is one of the major downsides of the game. The characters shouldn't be drifting around performing cartwheels and sliding along the ground, and they certainly shouldn't be shooting without aiming. They're doing that because the pace of the gameplay can't allow the breathing space for animations of that length.
This kind of poor planning is all over the game. You must collect skulls to progress, yet also push buttons. It's hard to understand why both of these things are going on, and it's no wonder experienced reviewers on YouTube have found themselves puzzled about how to get to the next stage, only to discover they left a button unpushed somewhere. I suspect the ideas of buttons and skulls were decided very early and stayed in throughout, without any real investigation as to their usefulness.
I forget which reviewer was doing his wondering out loud, but there's a really important thing for you to note about the SP level design. In the first stage, the reviewer got on top of a ziggurat and said to himself, "okay, where [i]should[/i] the next item be?". It was still not making sense to him, but by a process of elimination he eventually managed to head off in the right direction. To a fool like Stixmaster, this is fine because the game shouldn't JESS be handing you the answers on a plate or SUMTHANG, but I hope you know better. Your game is about an arcade-ish fast pace, and it's not an open world like Far Cry 2 nor an exploratory game like Tomb Raider.
The multiplayer maps aren't doing much better on mapping layout. From the earliest days of the Quake II/HL1 era, people were instantly learning how to combine areas of corridors and bigger, more open areas to encourage tactical play and to force the use of strategy. They provided areas of different height, to tease players into fighting over control of the most valuable territories. I'm not seeing the lessons of that history in R2012's MP maps.
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