Dota 2 General Chat - "give her the ward"

[Badunkadunk]

[QUOTE=devon_wargod;37445256]yeah razor destroys a grand majority of ursa idiots

if I see ursa on their team
I immediately pick razor[/QUOTE]

Doesn't the sap only affect his real damage and not the assload of bonus damage from his passive? Seems like there are better counters than that tbh.

[Necro'lic]

[QUOTE=Badunkadunk;37448178]Doesn't the sap only affect his real damage and not the assload of bonus damage from his passive? Seems like there are better counters than that tbh.[/QUOTE]

If Ursa is doing 0 damage his passive doesnt proc. Don't quote me on this.

[dual elites]

yeah I tried razor as a counterpick a few times, the problem is A) you need to be quite close to turn the link on in the first place, which means he'll likely get enough hits in to kill you before he loses too much damage and B) as far as I can tell it doesn't neuter Fury Swipes.

[Banned?]

Jakiro is also slower than a boulder trying to push itself uphill.

[ReLak]

you don't static link live targets unless you can help it, you target it at the disabled

if no one will do it buy a halberd or an abyssal blade or a god damn ghost scepter for all it matters

[editline]29th August 2012[/editline]

[QUOTE=Banned?;37448567]Jakiro is also slower than a boulder trying to push itself uphill.[/QUOTE]

he's 5 u/s slower than ogre

[Badunkadunk]

Nobody builds the Rod of Atos, seems like a good item instead of forcibly picking hard counters with slows specifically to counter Ursa.

[Necro'lic]

[QUOTE=Badunkadunk;37448601]Nobody builds the Rod of Atos, seems like a good item instead of forcibly picking hard counters with slows specifically to counter Ursa.[/QUOTE]

I get it on Outworld Destroyer. I got it once vs Ursa as Tinker with mild success.

[HoodedSniper]

[QUOTE=l l;37438081][url]http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/yxyih/tobiwan_refusing_to_cast_international_matches_on/c5ztmob[/url]

he apologized[/QUOTE]

Cool, he still casted games that he wasnt assigned to in DotaTV today.

Funny thing is, he was the only one who complained, all the other casters seemed fine.

[editline]28th August 2012[/editline]

[QUOTE=Badunkadunk;37448601]Nobody builds the Rod of Atos, seems like a good item instead of forcibly picking hard counters with slows specifically to counter Ursa.[/QUOTE]

There are much better items you can get than rod of atos.

[Maruhai]

[QUOTE=ReLak;37448578]he's 5 u/s slower than ogre[/QUOTE]
That's not the point he was making.

[ReLak]

[QUOTE=Badunkadunk;37448601]Nobody builds the Rod of Atos, seems like a good item instead of forcibly picking hard counters with slows specifically to counter Ursa.[/QUOTE]

it's because rod of atos is a niche item due to it's cost

on paper it's a great support item, a 50% slow while giving good stats, but it costs 3100. you can get a diffisual for 200 more and get purge + manaburn for that cost.

rod of atos works really well on two heroes, OD and silencer and that is because they can be played as int based carries which DO farm and DO need stats and DO need something to slow enemies because they have no gap closer. I suppose it could work on necrolyte but it's such a long shot because everyone expects necro to be support/wardbitch.

[KingKannon]

[QUOTE=Badunkadunk;37448601]Nobody builds the Rod of Atos, seems like a good item instead of forcibly picking hard counters with slows specifically to counter Ursa.[/QUOTE]

What's Rod of Atos? It's not a bad item for the stats it gives actually, nearly as much a mystic staff with a bit of hp on top of it. And it gives a crazy slow. I've never actually seen that item built, neither have I seen Veil of Discord yet.

[SatansSin]

[QUOTE=Zorus;37448794]What's Rod of Atos? It's not a bad item for the stats it gives actually, nearly as much a mystic staff with a bit of hp on top of it. And it gives a crazy slow. I've never actually seen that item built, neither have I seen [B]Veil of Discord[/B] yet.[/QUOTE]

I build that with Disruptor. It helps my ult a lot late game, if it comes to that, as well as other magically nukes my team has.

[Mercilust]

[QUOTE=Zorus;37448794]What's Rod of Atos? It's not a bad item for the stats it gives actually, nearly as much a mystic staff with a bit of hp on top of it. And it gives a crazy slow. I've never actually seen that item built, neither have I seen Veil of Discord yet.[/QUOTE]

I get a Veil on Ogre after something like force, euls or agh. its devastating, health just melts away.

[coup]

[QUOTE=Banned?;37448567]Jakiro is also slower than a boulder trying to push itself uphill.[/QUOTE]

Until he gets BoT and Euls.

I just played a game and a Jackiro carried the enemies team. We lost. I was a 12-2 Storm Spirit and all of a sudden he gets so tanky my entire team can't kill him before he runs away. Eventually they played a war of attrition and won.

[Necro'lic]

[QUOTE=Zorus;37448794]What's Rod of Atos? It's not a bad item for the stats it gives actually, nearly as much a mystic staff with a bit of hp on top of it. And it gives a crazy slow. I've never actually seen that item built, neither have I seen Veil of Discord yet.[/QUOTE]

I always get veil as Zeus.

[Amaurus]

Veil is great on Sand King too.

[Sax]

I usually go Rod of Atos on OD or Silencer if I don't get a lot of farm (or won't be getting any in the future). It's a nice item for it's stats. You get 5 more int then what you paid for so thats nice.

[Banned?]

[QUOTE=ReLak;37448774]it's because rod of atos is a niche item due to it's cost

on paper it's a great support item, a 50% slow while giving good stats, but it costs 3100. you can get a diffisual for 200 more and get purge + manaburn for that cost.[/QUOTE]

That is not a good comparison. That's two items that go on two completely different kinds of heroes.

[VulpesGrey]

just had an extremely close game (that we lost unfortunately) where I managed to get all my farm + a single luxury and almost pushed the enemy back, though I died in the last teamfight and from then on we were doomed

[editline]August 28th, 2012[/editline]

the most fun I've ever had against antimage for sure

[dogchow33]

[QUOTE=Badunkadunk;37448601]Nobody builds the Rod of Atos, seems like a good item instead of forcibly picking hard counters with slows specifically to counter Ursa.[/QUOTE]

I always get it right after force staff, it's a great boost for mid game, one step closer to one shot ults. I build Scythe of Vyse after that, and usually do really good and carry with that build.

[ReLak]

[QUOTE=Banned?;37449169]That is not a good comparison. That's two items that go on two completely different kinds of heroes.[/QUOTE]

for 2200 you can build a force staff and has utility than the rod does

for ~3100 you can get a drum + tranquils

for ~3100 you can get blink dagger + urn

for ~3100 you can buy phases and medallion

for 3300 you can buy a shadow blade

for 3300 you can buy a diffusal blade

these all help close gaps and the list should cover most hero roles

let me reiterate: the rod is too expensive for when it is most useful. Veno, phantom assassin and nightstalker has a 50% slow at lvl 1, enchantress, qop, drow and (lmao) ursa have a 50% slow available lvl 7, lanaya, huskar and gyrocopter have ultimates that slow for 50%. Most people can hit lvl 7 by at least 15 minutes.

rod isn't core on any heroes (imo), it's stats aren't that good for the price (it's a bonus, but it's no drum) and the active is ok (50% is cool, veno is proof of this), but it's just too expensive for what it gives.

[Banned?]

[QUOTE=ReLak;37451215]for 2200 you can build a force staff and has utility than the rod does

for ~3100 you can get a drum + tranquils

for ~3100 you can get blink dagger + urn

for ~3100 you can buy phases and medallion

[del]for 3300 you can buy a shadow blade

for 3300 you can buy a diffusal blade[/del][/QUOTE]

I deleted two of your examples because, again, you're trying to make comparisons to items that go to completely different kinds of heroes.

Let's also use the the prime examples of Rod carriers as templates (Obsidian and Silencer).

Force Staff: True, but both Rod and Force Staff greatly compliment the heroes that can use both. I know I get both on OD.
Drum + Tranquil: Not as much damage nor health as a Rod. You also wouldn't get either of these items on either character.
Blink Dagger + Urn: No damage at all. Useless on both Obsidian and Silencer. No advantage to having a Blink Dagger.
Phase + Medallion: Neither of these heroes get uses from either of these items considering all their damage is magic based, even in auto-attacks.

You're just listing items that cost as much as Rod and thinking that those justify a better use of money but if you think about who actually uses Rod the most, it's good. OD and Silencer are squishy little mofo's, especially Silencer, and while OD has a CC ability it's not the most ideal and can even give enemies time to escape (Astral Imprisonment someone with a Blink Dagger and they'll probably get away once it expires). OD and Silencer also run off of Int, be it Silencer using it directly or OD using it for more mana to power Arcane Orb.

Is it good on everyone? No. Blink Dagger isn't even good on everyone but damned if it isn't a good item. Is it's use limited? Totally.

[l l]

I played Storm Spirit for like the first actual time when I understood the game..

[t]http://puu.sh/ZSXE[/t]

Also not a pubstomp they got like 4 towers in 20 minutes we almost lost, why didn't I start playing him before this... :_;

[Necro'lic]

[QUOTE=l l;37451374]I played Storm Spirit for like the first actual time when I understood the game..

[t]http://puu.sh/ZSXE[/t]

Also not a pubstomp they got like 4 towers in 20 minutes we almost lost, why didn't I start playing him before this... :_;[/QUOTE]

Radiant w/ four drums.

[l l]

Like I said they were pushing so goddamned hard.

[Rats808]

[QUOTE=l l;37451374]I played Storm Spirit for like the first actual time when I understood the game..

[t]http://puu.sh/ZSXE[/t]

Also not a pubstomp they got like 4 towers in 20 minutes we almost lost, why didn't I start playing him before this... :_;[/QUOTE]

I envy you.

I've tried to play Storm twice, and both times somebody left extremely early and then everyone else left so it was pointless to stay.

[ReLak]

[QUOTE=Banned?;37451292]snip4space[/QUOTE]

i've already mentioned that it is a niche item (implying limited use) and that it works well on od/silencer so I don't know why i'd suggest alternatives to it

unless you know I was talking about other heroes

and the fact i mention that at the end of that list of items (that part where i say "... should cover most hero roles")

the reason why I bring those items up is that i'm not trying to prove the rod is a an outright bad item but that the rod is a bad item BECAUSE costs so much and for the same amount of gold you could get ___ which would help you more, so why would you make the rod?

it's similar to that time where everyone built vlads, it's not that vlads is a bad item (that aura is p. boss) but that there are better choices to make most of the time.

anyway I'll leave it at that because i have nothing more to really say.

[Lefter]

Why people won't get early points on corrosive skin on viper? I wonder if i left poison attack on level 1 and maxed out all passives.

[Tokagero]

[QUOTE=Lefter;37452660]Why people won't get early points on corrosive skin on viper? I wonder if i left poison attack on level 1 and maxed out all passives.[/QUOTE]

Well, depends mate.

If you max corrosive skin first, you don't get as much out of magic resistance as you would with more HP, but harassment becomes pointless against you.

Then again, if you harass Viper, he will harass you back with his poison attack, i.e. hurt you more than you do him, so again, even without Corrosive skin harassing Viper gives more edge to the Viper.

Maxing out Nether toxin though can be interesting, especially if combined with a gank/tp support to the lane. It gives static damage bonus, depending on enemy HP. It's common to see people escape on below 20-30% hp early game, heck, 10% even, Viper nullifies that as the moment they hit 50% hp, they are getting +64 damage against them, and if it's early, that's fair portion of life.

Try it out, see what happens.
Maybe Nether Toxin > Poison attack , either skip/1point in Corrosive skin until later, Ultimate depends on wether enemies can easily escape without it.

[dual elites]

I like to get Rod of Atos on venomancer for a 114% slow.

Thinking about it could be pretty okay on Ogre after scepter. orb of venom + ignite + rod would be pretty redonkulous

[QUOTE=Necro'lic;37451493]Radiant w/ four drums.[/QUOTE]

nothing really wrong with that, drums are really cost-efficient stats and since you can run out of charges it's good to have more than one