Oh man that looks 100000000000000000000000000000x better than that clusterfuck Aion thing.
Edit : Oh and also, the guy above me told me I was a douchebag because I wouldn't trade it to him for some items. Just because I don't want your items doesn't mean you should get upset.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;37159098]more effective than bloodseeker and broodmother as carries? you have said basically nothing.
at level 2-3 acid spray is still really pathetic damage, and is probably the most mana-inefficient harass in the game
i don't think I have ever lost against an alchemist carry
armlet and mom and you've got yourself basically nothing still.
put an armlet on skeleton king or slardar and they're rocking because they have reliable stuns and thus a use in a teamfight, along with great passives.
mask of madness??? great 30% extra damage means all that tankyness that alchemist apparently has is now worthless (even more so)
alchemist is a turd of a hero who needs fixing, and you're convincing new people to the game who might be reading the thread to play him.
[B]he is shit.[/B][/QUOTE]
Surely enough this is a wasted effort as I will never be able to change your mind on alchemist. He's a decent carry that dishes out 200 damage with armlet + ult and get's it much earlier than an antimage can get his battlefury, MoM is just icing on the cake. Alchemist has a fairly reliable stun when you have someone to help you set it up. Soul ring + acid spray and a ranged babysitter to help you out is still pretty efficient if you ask me. And if a new person is reading this, I'd rather they pick alchemist and have a strong amount of hp than playing a sniper and dying around 100 times.
Glad that mace was remvoed and the creator banned, Also morons now will think twice before submitting some shitty item with stolen textures/model
And still can't believe it, I thought it was going to stay in game for longer
[editline]9th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=xBackfire;37159154]
Edit : Oh and also, the guy above me told me I was a douchebag because I wouldn't trade it to him for some items. Just because I don't want your items doesn't mean you should get upset.[/QUOTE]
"OH MY GOOD TAKE MY SHIT YOU DON'T EVEN WANT FOR YOUR ITEM, DON'T BE A DOUCHE"
Pathetic
And that reminds me of yesterday, Someone on the enemy team who was an asshole during 60 minutes asked for the item I found
:v:
I didn't even call him a douchebag so please stop making a scene
Other little tidbits:
Timebreakers are now Vintage, presumably the ones sold in the Store/dropped will NOT be Vintage. Hoarders, start your engines.
You can now change your non-Hero specific items without going to a hero who has Hero-specific items ingame! As well, there's a new item slot called "Fan Item". You can now also view all the Heroes models ingame via the Loadout menu. Except Wisp. Blasted particles.
[QUOTE=titopei;37159239]And if a new person is reading this, I'd rather they pick alchemist and have a strong amount of hp than playing a sniper and dying around 100 times.[/QUOTE]
Less than 2 str gain.
Wet paper bag for starting armor.
1.2 agility gain so he has no natural armor gain.
No built in escape mechanism.
= Stong amount of HP?
Does not compute. Alchemists effective health pool is comparable to that of an anti mage, minus spell shield, minus the get out of jail free blink. He's made of fucking tissue paper held together with Vegemite.
[QUOTE=l l;37159333]I didn't even call him a douchebag so please stop making a scene[/QUOTE]
"Why do douchebags always get good shit" is verbatum what you said. I've unboxed numerous crates and got bottom-tier trash stranges, and I have worked my ass off for some of these things.
Why would I throw away the ONE cool thing that isn't just some rare or mythical I could buy from the store, to the first offer when the thing just came out and has no established price? ^^ I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, i'm just saying that I don't want to willfully rip myself off for your (possible) benefit.
Also, I apologize for this, really, i'll stop posting about it. I don't want to become a nuisance and derail the thread.
[QUOTE=titopei;37159239]Surely enough this is a wasted effort as I will never be able to change your mind on alchemist. He's a decent carry that dishes out 200 damage with armlet + ult and get's it much earlier than an antimage can get his battlefury, MoM is just icing on the cake. Alchemist has a fairly reliable stun when you have someone to help you set it up. Soul ring + acid spray and a ranged babysitter to help you out is still pretty efficient if you ask me. And if a new person is reading this, I'd rather they pick alchemist and have a strong amount of hp than playing a sniper and dying around 100 times.[/QUOTE]
it is a wasted effort, because you are arguing a lost cause and the match stats show it.
he's not a decent carry, he's not got a single good ability. he's worthless.
if you've won games with him, you would have won them with far less effort in far less time with any other hero
[QUOTE=l l;37159144][IMG]http://puu.sh/Qfwe[/IMG]
ugh[/QUOTE]
Vintage? Really? Valve just had to add that shit to dota too?
[QUOTE=aydin690;37159480]Vintage? Really? Valve just had to add that shit to dota too?[/QUOTE]
that's why I said ugh, I think it's a bug though
which will undoubtedly cause more shitty trading and value crap
[QUOTE=Jetamo;37159379]Other little tidbits:
Timebreakers are now Vintage, presumably the ones sold in the Store/dropped will NOT be Vintage. Hoarders, start your engines.
You can now change your non-Hero specific items without going to a hero who has Hero-specific items ingame! As well, there's a new item slot called "Fan Item". You can now also view all the Heroes models ingame via the Loadout menu. Except Wisp. Blasted particles.[/QUOTE]
Fan item? Any more information about this?
[QUOTE=aydin690;37159480]Vintage? Really? Valve just had to add that shit to dota too?[/QUOTE]
They're probably only going to do it for this one item.
[QUOTE=Jetamo;37159379]Other little tidbits:
Timebreakers are now Vintage, presumably the ones sold in the Store/dropped will NOT be Vintage. Hoarders, start your engines.
You can now change your non-Hero specific items without going to a hero who has Hero-specific items ingame! As well, there's a new item slot called "Fan Item". You can now also view all the Heroes models ingame via the Loadout menu. Except Wisp. Blasted particles.[/QUOTE]
oh sweet, I thought it was a one item bug/thing, no longer even mildly annoyed
thank you jetamo :>
Valve really needs to add a surrender/forfeit/concede (Whatever the fuck you want to call it) feature to the game.
by the way hunger is bugged due to this patch, it doesn't dispel when you deny or creep
[QUOTE=aydin690;37159626]Valve really needs to add a surrender/forfeit/concede (Whatever the fuck you want to call it) feature to the game.[/QUOTE]
How though? Every game I've seen with one ends up being fast concedes or feed. It gets retarded.
5 man premades should have the option, but a concede system always gets abused for solo que, because guess what, this community is shit.
[QUOTE=leonthefox;37159512]Fan item? Any more information about this?[/QUOTE]
Nope.
Also side note, looks like they've added more Tournament drop chances, namely when you witness either a "first blood", "glorious victory", "a bloody multi-kill", "a lucky allied hero denial", "a bold denial of the Aegis of the Immortal" or a "surprise theft of the Aegis of the Immortal".
This will PROBABLY be for the International.
[QUOTE=l l;37159633]by the way hunger is bugged due to this patch, it doesn't dispel when you deny or creep[/QUOTE]
That makes one of the best dots in the game, probably the best non ult dot.
Mah automerge.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;37159686]How though? Every game I've seen with one ends up being fast concedes or feed. It gets retarded.
5 man premades should have the option, but a concede system always gets abused for solo que, because guess what, this community is shit.[/QUOTE]
So, you're telling me you've never had a game where you're getting stomped and the other team decides to go afk farming in the jungle? People will still afk at the fountain, leave, etc. Also, it's not like people will quit as soon as they start to lose, it still requires 4-5 votes from your team. If 4 people on your team think the game is over, then the game is over.
[QUOTE=aydin690;37159783]So, you're telling me you've never had a game where you're getting stomped and the other team decides to go afk farming in the jungle? People will still afk at the fountain, leave, etc. Also, it's not like people will quit as soon as they start to lose, it still requires 4-5 votes from your team. If 4 people on your team think the game is over, then the game is over.[/QUOTE]
your middle tower has fallen
"OMG NOOB TEAM FUCK THIS"
"Alright guys stay calm we can do this it's only a tower"
"NO HE'S RIGHT YOU ARE ALL FUCKING NOOBS"
"SURRENDER"
It's not like all the games are decided in the first 15 minutes of play
[QUOTE=leonthefox;37159892]your middle tower has fallen
"OMG NOOB TEAM FUCK THIS"
"Alright guys stay calm we can do this it's only a tower"
"NO HE'S RIGHT YOU ARE ALL FUCKING NOOBS"
"SURRENDER"
It's not like all the games are decided in the first 15 minutes of play[/QUOTE]
they actually aren't, what role do you usually play and how do you react to said players?
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;37159398]Less than 2 str gain.
Wet paper bag for starting armor.
1.2 agility gain so he has no natural armor gain.
No built in escape mechanism.
= Stong amount of HP?
Does not compute. Alchemists effective health pool is comparable to that of an anti mage, minus spell shield, minus the get out of jail free blink. He's made of fucking tissue paper held together with Vegemite.[/QUOTE]
I see more snipers feed than alchemist. First game alchemist, 0-4-12, ok you did fine. First game sniper, 3-10-5.
[QUOTE=aydin690;37159783]So, you're telling me you've never had a game where you're getting stomped and the other team decides to go afk farming in the jungle? People will still afk at the fountain, leave, etc. Also, it's not like people will quit as soon as they start to lose, it still requires 4-5 votes from your team. If 4 people on your team think the game is over, then the game is over.[/QUOTE]
Did I say I hadn't been on either side of a curb stomp? You are erecting a strawman, and a really poor one at that.
I said I don't want a system that's trivially exploited or abused. Leagues system is bad. People who do not understand the game frequently whinge about WAAAAHHH CONCEDE when your team has far, far more powerful endgame potential and they are down three towers, or because someone is 8-0 25 minutes into the game. Dota has a far, FAR bigger variance in heroes than league does, so this happens far more frequently, and because of buyback with defenders advantage, even if you are far behind, a massive fuck up on either team can end the game in less than 60 seconds once you get past a certain point.
Sure I've been in games where it's been deliberately dragged on, but I'll take the odd game where that happens every now and again over some petulant child feeding because his concede didn't pass any day. It sounds stupid, but the lack of an option radically alters how people behave. 5 man premades can at least be trusted to not be riddled with whinging little cunts, or at the very least, you can just boot someone who is after the match and never play with them again. Solo queing is a different ballgame entirely because you are not in control of who your teammates are.
DOUBLE EDIT:
Propose a system that isn't trivially easy to break and doesn't require human review except in extreme cases. I will endorse it on the dev forums in every way I possibly can. Remember, your system must provide a way to concede that is difficult to exploit. You cannot trust people to not be the biggest dicks and assholes imaginable. I don't see how this is possible. People are cunts. Welcome to the internet, and more specifically, welcome to the internet where competition is involved.
[editline]9th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=titopei;37159935]I see more snipers feed than alchemist. First game alchemist, 0-4-12, ok you did fine. First game sniper, 3-10-5.[/QUOTE]
Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. Every collection of raw stats with a decent sized sample pool, regardless of skill says that Alch is terrible. This is universal from Maharanis Trench bracket, all the way to professional play, and tournaments. You can think whatever you want about how fun alchemist is (I think he's fun once in a while), but you cannot argue about facts. Every bit of evidence available says that you are wrong. Even in theorycrafted situations he is generally subpar.
[QUOTE=l l;37159909]they actually aren't, what role do you usually play and how do you react to said players?[/QUOTE]
Pusher and support, sometimes carry
I'm just saying, with a surrender option most tryhards will flip their shit as soon as someones give us first blood or the first two towers are destroyed
this isn't league where all you can do is making the game longer and ending up losing anyways
They got your mid barracks down in 20 mins? you turtle, the enemy team will eventually come to you and will want to end it asap, once they die you can push, or keep turtling and kill them again until you starve them
[editline]9th August 2012[/editline]
[quote]People who do not understand the game frequently whinge about WAAAAHHH CONCEDE when your team has far, far more powerful endgame potential and they are down three towers, or because someone is 8-0 25 minutes into the game.[/quote]
this
friend randomed naga, I picked veno, two people spend the first 10 minutes feeding, we were forced to turtle a bit, then naga gets farm, i get aghanim, we win every single teamfight and reach their ancient in no time
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;37159976]Did I say I hadn't been on either side of a curb stomp? You are erecting a strawman, and a really poor one at that.
I said I don't want a system that's trivially exploited or abused. Leagues system is bad. People who do not understand the game frequently whinge about WAAAAHHH CONCEDE when your team has far, far more powerful endgame potential and they are down three towers, or because someone is 8-0 25 minutes into the game. Dota has a far, FAR bigger variance in heroes than league does, so this happens far more frequently, and because of buyback with defenders advantage, even if you are far behind, a massive fuck up on either team can end the game in less than 60 seconds once you get past a certain point.
Sure I've been in games where it's been deliberately dragged on, but I'll take the odd game where that happens every now and again over some petulant child feeding because his concede didn't pass any day. It sounds stupid, but the lack of an option radically alters how people behave. 5 man premades can at least be trusted to not be riddled with whinging little cunts, or at the very least, you can just boot someone who is after the match and never play with them again. Solo queing is a different ballgame entirely because you are not in control of who your teammates are.
DOUBLE EDIT:
Propose a system that isn't trivially easy to break and doesn't require human review except in extreme cases. I will endorse it on the dev forums in every way I possibly can. Remember, your system must provide a way to concede that is difficult to exploit. You cannot trust people to not be the biggest dicks and assholes imaginable. I don't see how this is possible. People are cunts. Welcome to the internet, and more specifically, welcome to the internet where competition is involved.
[editline]9th August 2012[/editline]
Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. Every collection of raw stats with a decent sized sample pool, regardless of skill says that Alch is terrible. This is universal from Maharanis Trench bracket, all the way to professional play, and tournaments. You can think whatever you want about how fun alchemist is (I think he's fun once in a while), but you cannot argue about facts. Every bit of evidence available says that you are wrong. Even in theorycrafted situations he is generally subpar.[/QUOTE]
If we're using dota stats, sniper has 2,426,069 games with around 6.4 average deaths. Alchemist on the other hand only has 864,875 games with 6.8 average deaths. There's definitely a lot of room for error there.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;37159976]Did I say I hadn't been on either side of a curb stomp? You are erecting a strawman, and a really poor one at that.
I said I don't want a system that's trivially exploited or abused. Leagues system is bad. People who do not understand the game frequently whinge about WAAAAHHH CONCEDE when your team has far, far more powerful endgame potential and they are down three towers, or because someone is 8-0 25 minutes into the game. Dota has a far, FAR bigger variance in heroes than league does, so this happens far more frequently, and because of buyback with defenders advantage, even if you are far behind, a massive fuck up on either team can end the game in less than 60 seconds once you get past a certain point.
Sure I've been in games where it's been deliberately dragged on, but I'll take the odd game where that happens every now and again over some petulant child feeding because his concede didn't pass any day. It sounds stupid, but the lack of an option radically alters how people behave. 5 man premades can at least be trusted to not be riddled with whinging little cunts, or at the very least, you can just boot someone who is after the match and never play with them again. Solo queing is a different ballgame entirely because you are not in control of who your teammates are.
DOUBLE EDIT:
Propose a system that isn't trivially easy to break and doesn't require human review except in extreme cases. I will endorse it on the dev forums in every way I possibly can. Remember, your system must provide a way to concede that is difficult to exploit. You cannot trust people to not be the biggest dicks and assholes imaginable. I don't see how this is possible. People are cunts. Welcome to the internet, and more specifically, welcome to the internet where competition is involved.
[/QUOTE]
Can easily be fixed. Make it no forfeit till the 20mins mark, after that you need all 5 people's votes. After the 30mins mark, you need 4/5 votes. Once a forfeit vote was called, and defeated, it can't be called again for 5 mins and can't be called by the person that started the initial vote for 10 mins. Furthermore, nobody can initiate a surrender vote more than twice.
Oh and no forfeit can be called unless you're down at least one set of rax.
Most problems can be fixed by implementing a well thoughtout system. You can't deny it can be useful at the right times.
Also, surrender/concede/forfeit is a banned topic on dev forums.
You know what is funny? In LoL the concede button is mashed every time one person thinks the game is over. In Smite, which shares a lot of similarities to LoL, hardly anyone surrenders unless it's a complete wipe. I've never surrendered in Smite and I've only seen teams surrender when they get wiped in a team push. It's kinda weird seeing different communities use the surrender option. I don't know how it would go in Dota 2, I'm sure it would be a catastrophe, but it was interesting.
Also, I don't think they would ever add it. There was a huge thread early on when beta went public that got locked about the topic.
I'd say it's always worth a test and if it doesn't go so well they can just remove it from the game.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
