[QUOTE=Antary;37249545]But you are not missing out on several creep waves trying to catch Riki off guard in order to dust him?
A good Lycan? Okay then.
A good Riki checks the enemies' inventories constantly for invis detection, and also doesn`t farm at 3 hp like a tard. At late levels he actually becomes really tanky, what with his Strength Gain of 2 (compared to AMs 1.2) + armor from his massive Agility Gain.
I just did the same thing you did, and we can keep doing this forever.[/QUOTE]
when riki gets shut down, there's no way he can easily return
it's nigh on impossible to keep lycan down
riki is inferior because of lycan being the best push in the game
dust is easily available if you have supports actually playing their role
lycan requires stun chains and even then that might not be enough
riki requires 180 gold on a support
riki requires diffusal blade, which can take quite a while to farm if he's having trouble in lane
lycan gets items easily because of how quickly he farms
utterly incomparable
I'm gonna say this again [B]lycan is the best push in the game[/B]
Lycan has no teamfight, gets outcarried by any hard carry late game, shut down early by agressive junglers, forces your team to waste the jungle on a none-ganking hero, if your lane dont do well early he cant push back.
Also, everyone knows how to counter Lycan nowadays, thats why he loses 80% of the competitive games he gets picked on. We explained this already. There is a reason why people prefer to ban Dark Seer/Naga Siren and let Lycan squeeze thru sometimes.
Lycan is a great pusher, but hes not OP, only if you are an idiot and you let him farm and dont gank him early, later on its just having stuns and TP scrolls.
[QUOTE=Santz;37249937]Lycan has no teamfight, gets outcarried by any hard carry late game, shut down early by agressive junglers, forces your team to waste the jungle on a none-ganking hero, if your lane dont do well early he cant push back.
Also, everyone knows how to counter Lycan nowadays, thats why he loses 80% of the competitive games he gets picked on. We explained this already. There is a reason why people prefer to ban Dark Seer/Naga Siren and let Lycan squeeze thru sometimes.
Lycan is a great pusher, but hes not OP, only if you are an idiot and [B]you let him farm and dont gank him early[/B], later on its just having stuns and TP scrolls.[/QUOTE]
this logic has been covered previously, 'not letting him farm early' is so very easy to say, not as easy to do
'outcarried by any hard carry late game' is meaningless because if the lycan has a connected keyboard, the game never goes on long enough for a hard carry to function.
'waste your jungle on a non-ganking hero' is ridiculous, and not a waste when this 'non-ganking hero' comes out of the jungle obliterating towers
if everyone knows how to counter lycan, why is he getting banned in comp.
surely everyone knows how to counter him so.....
[QUOTE=Oicani Gonzales;37249042]Isn't sny an item you only get when you're farming poorly?[/QUOTE]
Yeah it's easily outclassed by other items but its nature to be easy to build and the fact that it povides good stats makes it an useful item if you're having a hard time as an agility carry.
[QUOTE=Santz;37249937]There is a reason why people prefer to ban Dark Seer/Naga Siren and let Lycan squeeze thru sometimes. [/QUOTE]
lycan has been banned in literally every single competitive game in the last two months except for two
[QUOTE=dual elites;37250180]lycan has been banned in literally every single competitive game in the last two months except for two[/QUOTE]
[URL]http://www.joindota.com/en/vods/1532-amd-joindota-masters-special-evil-geniuses-vs-navi-grand-final-game-1[/URL]
rare footage of lycan not getting banned
not so rare footage of lycan getting instapicked, his jungle being warded, him dying, the commentators saying it's been a tough game for him
OHWOULDYOULOOKATHAT vlads, necrobook and medallion and the game over by 25 minutes
lycan made their pushes unstoppable and every time they split pushed eg were forced to lose a tower
I guess EG should just know how to play better lol
[QUOTE=Santz;37249937]Lycan has no teamfight, gets outcarried by any hard carry late game[/QUOTE]
Like he'll let them get to late game lol.
Everyone instapicks Lycan because they dont like dealing with him, the same way people dont like dealing with Dark Seer or Naga Siren(See how people prefer to let Lycan go instead of Naga or Dark Seer).
And hes a great pusher like I said, and great farmer, but hes nowhere near OP level. EG just got teamed against a heavy push line up, and they forgot about Lycan after the first minutes, and that is exactly what you dont do. Also, they had nothing to go against him on late game, no stuns apart from Ravage, only slows.
[QUOTE=dual elites;37250180]lycan has been banned in literally every single competitive game in the last two months except for two[/QUOTE]
No? He has been picked at least 10 times in the past 2 months, and lost the majority of them.
[QUOTE=Santz;37249937]Lycan has no teamfight, gets outcarried by any hard carry late game, shut down early by agressive junglers, forces your team to waste the jungle on a none-ganking hero, if your lane dont do well early he cant push back.
[/QUOTE]
I wasn't aware that a free Sacred Relic to every member of his team and their minions qualified as "has no teamfight"
[editline]15th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Santz;37250409]
No? He has been picked at least 10 times in the past 2 months, and lost the majority of them.[/QUOTE]
The only time he isn't banned for the most part is when one team is sure they can stomp the other one easily due to the pure skill difference and just want to screw around.
[QUOTE=Santz;37250409]Everyone instapicks Lycan because they dont like dealing with him, the same way people dont like dealing with Dark Seer or Naga Siren(See how people prefer to let Lycan go instead of Naga or Dark Seer).
And hes a great pusher like I said, and great farmer, but hes nowhere near OP level. EG just got teamed against a heavy push line up, and they forgot about Lycan after the first minutes, and that is exactly what you dont do. Also, they had nothing to go against him on late game, no stuns apart from Ravage, only slows.
No? He has been picked at least 10 times in the past 2 months, and lost the majority of them.[/QUOTE]
are you shitting me.
forgot about him after a few minutes? they fucking did roshan twice to stop him from getting it solo
nothing to go against him late game??? the game ended after 20 minutes, also they had [B]​motherfucking brewmaster jesus christ[/B]
they had all the teamfight in the world, which was something you said lycan was lacking in, and they still lost almost every teamfight
get this
- they leave lanes to gank lycan in jungle, because if he is level 6 then you need several heroes to kill him
- Na'vis laners take their towers because they aren't there to defend them, and they had superior push
- EG loses map control because of lack of towers, lycan free to jungle everywhere in the world, they can't stop him
EG decided to, rather than attempt to kill a single hero, defend their towers and try and push (you saying na'vi had heavy push when eg had chen, death prophet, veno), and they lost because lycan is out of control by about 15 minutes because they lost map control.
if you do not see the point we're trying to make here, you are choosing to defend lycan not out of logic, but because you are deliberately ignoring points
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;37250258][URL]http://www.joindota.com/en/vods/1532-amd-joindota-masters-special-evil-geniuses-vs-navi-grand-final-game-1[/URL]
rare footage of lycan not getting banned
not so rare footage of lycan getting instapicked, his jungle being warded, him dying, the commentators saying it's been a tough game for him
OHWOULDYOULOOKATHAT vlads, necrobook and medallion and the game over by 25 minutes
lycan made their pushes unstoppable and every time they split pushed eg were forced to lose a tower
I guess EG should just know how to play better lol[/QUOTE]
That's fucking Na'Vi. They can pick Bloodseeker, Huskar, Sven, Razor and Silencer and still win.
I suggest you find more cases for Lycan's situation, not just Na'Vi.
EG played sloppy the whole mid game, the time were they got killed on the Rosh pit was retarded, they stayed all there, while they KNEW Navi was just outside waiting for it, Tidehunter did Ravage, it hit 3 heroes but all were on the high ground so there was no follow up, and DP used her ulti against Roshan so she did not had it in the teamfight, same goes with the Panda ulti, he used it and there was no follow up.
And again, they were matched against a pushing line up, usually, when you get against a pushing line up you go counter push and turtle the game, if you lose a teamfight, you lose a rax, thats the way it works against a push line up, so you must do your best to NEVER get caught out of position and always be ready to defend your base.
I'm nowhere near pro level but I know the basics and its not hard to see where EG went wrong. Other teams have done a fantastic job shutting down Lycan the entire game.
I'm not saying Lycan is a shit hero, hes an amazing pusher, but labeling him as "OP" is dumb.
[QUOTE=Santz;37250878]I'm nowhere near pro level but I know the basics and its not hard to see where EG went wrong.[/QUOTE]
if only EG knew the basics.....
[QUOTE=Santz;37250878]EG played sloppy the whole mid game, the time were they got killed on the Rosh pit was retarded, they stayed all there, while they KNEW Navi was just outside waiting for it, Tidehunter did Ravage, it hit 3 heroes but all were on the high ground so there was no follow up, and DP used her ulti against Roshan so she did not had it in the teamfight, same goes with the Panda ulti, he used it and there was no follow up.
And again, they were matched against a pushing line up, usually, when you get against a pushing line up you go counter push and turtle the game, if you lose a teamfight, you lose a rax, thats the way it works against a push line up, so you must do your best to NEVER get caught out of position and always be ready to defend your base.
I'm nowhere near pro level but I know the basics and its not hard to see where EG went wrong. Other teams have done a fantastic job shutting down Lycan the entire game.
I'm not saying Lycan is a shit hero, hes an amazing pusher, but labeling him as "OP" is dumb.[/QUOTE]
and why do you think that they got killed in the rosh pit, why do you think they were forced into a position where they were in rosh, when they 'knew' na'vi were outside it
what could have made them fight under circumstances where they were at a severe disadvantage
what hero do you think could have done this.
give me examples of these fantastic lycan shutdowns, because you've been saying it, but show me some videos please
oh and spoilers, next game after that EG vs Navi one, lycan gets instabanned
[QUOTE=Rarara;37249287]
You can also get a gem for 800 to kill him infinite times.[/QUOTE]
NOOOOOOOOOO.
I don't care what you intended to say, but:
Never. Buy. A. Gem. Against. A. Fed. Riki.
Only buy a gem if you have an advantage or are playing someone like skeleton king. If you buy a gem when you are losing, you will delay the core items you need to survive teamfights. You will inevitably lose the gem, giving the other team a 1400 gold advantage (they get +700, you get -700).
Don't know how to use sentry wards or dust of appearance well? Time to learn.
[QUOTE=Regularjoe;37250951]NOOOOOOOOOO.
I don't care what you intended to say, but:
Never. Buy. A. Gem. Against. A. Fed. Riki.
Only buy a gem if you have an advantage or are playing someone like skeleton king. If you buy a gem when you are losing, you will delay the core items you need to survive teamfights. You will inevitably lose the gem, giving the other team a 1400 gold advantage (they get +700, you get -700).
Don't know how to use sentry wards or dust of appearance well? Time to learn.[/QUOTE]
Because buying gems when Riki is killing you over and over, being fed as hell and all that, is a reasonable thing and exactly what I was suggesting.
[QUOTE=Regularjoe;37250951]NOOOOOOOOOO.
I don't care what you intended to say, but:
Never. Buy. A. Gem. Against. A. Fed. Riki.
Only buy a gem if you have an advantage or are playing someone like skeleton king. If you buy a gem when you are losing, you will delay the core items you need to survive teamfights. You will inevitably lose the gem, giving the other team a 1400 gold advantage (they get +700, you get -700).
Don't know how to use sentry wards or dust of appearance well? Time to learn.[/QUOTE]
A gem is best bought to keep an advantage you already have. IE, I'm laning as kunkka against a Riki and I manage to kill him once or twice before he reaches level 6, so I buy a gem since that stops hims from getting the jump on me. Boom, instantly shut down.
If you buy a gem against a riki that has had a good early game, you are just throwing away 700g. Get Dust and Sentries instead.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;37250927]Oh and spoilers, next game after that EG vs Navi one, lycan gets instabanned[/QUOTE]
Same as Naga and Dark Seer, heroes that always get instabanned because nobody likes dealing with them, duh.
They were not in disadvantage, they could have easily exited the pit and start a teamfight, It was a huge mistake to use everything you got against Rosh knowing the enemy is just outside, it was stupid, ask anyone who knows anything about this game.
They comitted a mistake and it costed them a rax, its nothing new, everyone makes mistakes, its just the way it works with push line ups, it could have been Furion instead of Lycan, it would have been the same result, lose a fight, lose a rax.
Bloodseeker's ult also counters Lycan during his ult, as far as he doesn't have BKB yet.
He runs at max speed, have fun shitting blood then.
[QUOTE=Santz;37251035]ask anyone who knows anything about this game.[/QUOTE]
who knows more about this game than the top competitive players?
"alchemist is great, lycan isn't unbalanced and eg don't know what they're doing unlike [I]me[/I]" - facepunch
[t]http://puu.sh/VzKN[/t]
it happened again
Did you actually end up being lina or es?
[QUOTE=l l;37251153][t]http://puu.sh/VzKN[/t]
it happened again[/QUOTE]
That happens all the time, not really unusual or uncommon.
[QUOTE=dual elites;37251190]Did you actually end up being lina or es?[/QUOTE]
You end up as what the text says, in this case Lina.
[QUOTE=dual elites;37251131]who knows more about this game than the top competitive players?
"alchemist is great, lycan isn't unbalanced and eg don't know what they're doing unlike [I]me[/I]" - facepunch[/QUOTE]
News flash dude, even pro players make mistakes. Fighting in the rosh pit was a mistake.
Alchemist is quite underpowered compared to other heroes that require the same ammount of cash he needs to excel.
Lycan is one of the best pushers, thats why hes banned alot, but hes counterable and he doesnt mean pick = win.
Mistakes are easy to point out, specially by people outside the game(Inside the game there is alot pressure which sometimes leads to bad decisions, that is what all pro-casters and even pro players say).
Example; If PGG does a black hole that catches NOBODY and I say it was a retarded move I'm wrong just because I'm not a pro player? They made a mistake, everyone already pointed that out, its not just me and they lost the game because of it.
There are at least 3 heroes in the META who always see banning because NOBODY likes dealing with them: Dark Seer(Easy to farm with, a teamfight beast, hard to gank, scales great into late game), Naga Siren(Banned because its one of the most annoying teamfight hero to go against, you cant have control of the fight if shes around, ungankable if she has ulti and map awareness, easy to farm with, AOE damage and pushing power with illusions) AND Lycan, (one of the strongest pushers in the game, hard to gank and a great farmer).
If you are going to say that all strong heroes are "overpowered" or "unbalanced" lets throw Furion in the mix, tinker, anti mage, morphling, leshrac and all top tier picks.
There is a reason why Lycan manages to squeeze thru in the banning stage, its because people are not afraid of it. If they make mistakes and let him reach his potential that was their fault, it wasnt the hero been overpowered.
[QUOTE=Tokagero;37250751]That's fucking Na'Vi. They can pick Bloodseeker, Huskar, Sven, Razor and Silencer and still win.
I suggest you find more cases for Lycan's situation, not just Na'Vi.[/QUOTE]
Sure.
[video=youtube;--4ttg2Noxo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--4ttg2Noxo[/video]
70 minutes long game, Lycan shut down as fuck, incredible Pushing and Turtling from the other team.
Yet Lycan still wins because he's Lycan.
Dota 2 General chat - Lycan edition.
[QUOTE=dual elites;37251190]Did you actually end up being lina or es?[/QUOTE]
I repicked
[QUOTE=Maruhai;37251586]Sure.
[video=youtube;--4ttg2Noxo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--4ttg2Noxo[/video]
70 minutes long game, Lycan shut down as fuck, incredible Pushing and Turtling from the other team.
Yet Lycan still wins because he's Lycan.[/QUOTE]
Also I don't remember against who it was but the game where SingSing played Lycan
It was absolutely ridiculous. His Tier 1 and 2 towers got pushed down in about 6 minutes and he was forced to sit by his Tier 3, got almost no jungling time. He was level 2 like 6 minutes in.
Yet somehow he just patiently sits there, uses wolves to farm, and comes back out of nowhere and completely stomps.
[QUOTE=l l;37251839]I repicked[/QUOTE]
Lina and Earthshaker are pretty good, man.
[QUOTE=l l;37251153][t]http://puu.sh/VzKN[/t]
it happened again[/QUOTE]
It did that to me a few days ago, said I randomed clockwerk but I got brewmaster, something like that
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