[QUOTE=KillRay;37295073]So I've been playing a good amount of Void recently since I want to play different carries besides Ursa. I always feel when I play him though I'm farming super slowly, and I'm a competent last hitter, until I get my BFury, and by that point it feels late to me. What's a good time that I should have it? (I usually complete treads first by the way) And is MoM worth getting before it for some early DPS?[/QUOTE]
MoM is never worth getting
you pretty much sacrifice possible damage items for an attack speed item (that you can really only use when your ult is up (20% increased damage taken, wouldn't want that when everyone is focusing you), which is about every minute or so)
so, on top of a lot of attack speed but no damage, you also are limited how you use it.
if you get bf first, then you get a lot more damage and regen, and can quickly farm a hyperstone to compensate for the lack of IAS you have.
[QUOTE=Meatpuppet;37295295]MoM is never worth getting
you pretty much sacrifice possible damage items for an attack speed item (that you can really only use when your ult is up (20% increased damage taken, wouldn't want that when everyone is focusing you), which is about every minute or so)
so, on top of a lot of attack speed but no damage, you also are limited how you use it.
if you get bf first, then you get a lot more damage and regen, and can quickly farm a hyperstone to compensate for the lack of IAS you have.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's why I've always been on the fence with it. It's great when you ult but outside of that it's useless until you're tankier. (except the lifesteal I suppose) But I feel useless in the early fights when all I can do is ulti and do very little damage, and then they run away because I can't kill them.
That's just in my experience though.
[QUOTE=Banned?;37293901]Manta isn't that good on Void anyway.[/QUOTE]
Illusions give a 66% increase in dps if you have all stat items, and they don't get frozen by chrono. Incredibly good item on Void
[QUOTE=KillRay;37295339]Yeah, that's why I've always been on the fence with it. It's great when you ult but outside of that it's useless until you're tankier. (except the lifesteal I suppose) But I feel useless in the early fights when all I can do is ulti and do very little damage, and then they run away because I can't kill them.
That's just in my experience though.[/QUOTE]
That's how Void works, only effective lategame.
[QUOTE=KillRay;37295339]Yeah, that's why I've always been on the fence with it. It's great when you ult but outside of that it's useless until you're tankier. (except the lifesteal I suppose) But I feel useless in the early fights when all I can do is ulti and do very little damage, and then they run away because I can't kill them.[/QUOTE]
You'd be surprised how much damage an early bf can get you. I was a little confused, because when I got it at the 16 mark for the first time when trying out the MoM-less build, I thought I needed some more items to actually contribute to a teamfight. But, we inadvertently got into one, I ulted, and ended up 3 shotting their Rubick. Also, I tend to build the hyperstone into a Mjollnir, then go for daed, then mkb.
[editline]18th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Maruhai;37295360]That's how Void works, only effective lategame.[/QUOTE]
Not really, with a bf and a hyperstone by 20-25 minutes you can be pretty effective.
[QUOTE=Meatpuppet;37295295]MoM is never worth getting
you pretty much sacrifice possible damage items for an attack speed item (that you can really only use when your ult is up (20% increased damage taken, wouldn't want that when everyone is focusing you), which is about every minute or so)
so, on top of a lot of attack speed but no damage, you also are limited how you use it.
if you get bf first, then you get a lot more damage and regen, and can quickly farm a hyperstone to compensate for the lack of IAS you have.[/QUOTE]
You don't get a hyperstone on Void, the main reason the hardest carries are all agi is that they can forgo items that give flat attack speed bonuses in favor of items which increase agility, which increases both attack speed and damage. The one exception I can think of that seems to be acceptable to everyone is mjollnir on sniper, but even then I get butterfly instead. Well, and of course late game when you're farmed enough and you have other agi items it's fine to get stuff like mjollnir, but Sniper is the only agi hero I see building it first.
And MoM is fine on void, as mentioned you usually use it in your ult but it can help damage any time and can even help to escape with the movement speed bonus. The attack speed bonus helps to keep people stunned which helps to reduce incoming damage, plus void's backtrack let's him be deceptively sturdy. And finally, it gives lifesteal, and the active increases the rate of lifesteal which helps offset the bonus incoming damage.
That's my reasoning, anyway.
Void and Medusa are the strongest hard carries.
Void because of Bash, backtrack and its amazing Chronosphere.
Medusa because of his Mana shield which makes her a brutally tanky carry and her split shot been completely awesome when having full items.
Tied on the next place for me, would be many of the mass illusion heroes, in this order, Terrorblade(Zeal and Metamorphis make him such a fucking beast), Spectre(Dispersion and Haunt so good), Phantom Lancer and Naga.(Chaos knight would get an special mention here, but his ulti cooldown doesn't make him a reliable carry)
Anti-Mage probably goes next, Blink and mana burn been amazing, also great attack animation.
Morphiling later thx to morph and replicate, also because of BURST DAMAGE.
Obsidian Destroyer then later as a counter-carry, against illusion heroes but countered HARD by BKB, and requires initiation towards the carry they want to focus on(Still his ulti, rapes illusions).
Silencer as well, but never played because no escape and squishy(same reason why OD is barely played too) and cuz BKB shits on him too.
THEN we enter the realm of LUCK, where you have Phantom Assassin.
This is comparing heroes with the same amount of farm(so completely farmed).
AND then you have Lone Druid that if you also say that has farmed EVERYTHING, that means he has full items on his bear and himself, which would make him a brutal carry but that's just not possible in the universe, even a Medusa with full items its more real than a 12 item Druid.
[sp]OPINIONS[/sp]
[QUOTE=laharlsblade;37295409]
And MoM is fine on void, as mentioned you usually use it in your ult but it can help damage any time and can even help to escape with the movement speed bonus. The attack speed bonus helps to keep people stunned which helps to reduce incoming damage, plus void's backtrack let's him be deceptively sturdy. And finally, it gives lifesteal, and the active increases the rate of lifesteal which helps offset the bonus incoming damage.
That's my reasoning, anyway.[/QUOTE]
MoM is a money pit early game. You really do no damage, at all. And, if you don't use it in your ult, you only have a 25% chance of backtracking an attack that comes at you, so if you get nuked (you probably will, you are the hard carry after all), and you don't backtrack it, you suddenly are at 10 percent health because of the 20% bonus damage.
Also, building into Mjollnir is amazing on void, because, on top of Battlefury doing damage while in chrono, you also have chain lightning, which will proc a shitload because of the IAS you get from MJ too.
[QUOTE=Goggles;37295358]Illusions give a 66% increase in dps if you have all stat items, and they don't get frozen by chrono. Incredibly good item on Void[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but buying more direct damage items benefits Void more, especially since he doesn't need anything but the Agi on the Manta. Buying an MKB is a better damage investment than Manta, especially against certain heroes.
[QUOTE=Meatpuppet;37295444]MoM is a money pit early game. You really do no damage, at all. And, if you don't use it in your ult, you only have a 25% chance of backtracking an attack that comes at you, so if you get nuked (you probably will, you are the hard carry after all), and you don't backtrack it, you suddenly are at 10 percent health because of the 20% bonus damage.
Also, building into Mjollnir is amazing on void, because, on top of Battlefury doing damage while in chrono, you also have chain lightning, which will proc a shitload because of the IAS you get from MJ too.[/QUOTE]
MoM also costs less than half of Battlefury and early in the game everyone does enough damage to everyone else, assuming you're competent at last hitting you can surely farm it quickly and kill someone with your ult, MoM and one teammate. It's not really realistic to 1v1 anyone that early on without a nuke or a few stuns. And of course battlefury can come next, the MoM shouldn't delay it by too much, again assuming you're competent at farming. Plus, with the lifesteal from MoM you can just sit in the jungle as long as you want (these [i]are[/i] pubs we're talking about after all).
And as I said Mjollnir is fine after agility items like butterfly, but on an agility character there are much better items than mjollnir for the price that should be prioritized.
[QUOTE=Meatpuppet;37295295]MoM is never worth getting
you pretty much sacrifice possible damage items for an attack speed item (that you can really only use when your ult is up (20% increased damage taken, wouldn't want that when everyone is focusing you), which is about every minute or so)
so, on top of a lot of attack speed but no damage, you also are limited how you use it.
if you get bf first, then you get a lot more damage and regen, and can quickly farm a hyperstone to compensate for the lack of IAS you have.[/QUOTE]
MoM armlet is best build on everyone
[QUOTE=Santz;37295437]
AND then you have Lone Druid that if you also say that has farmed EVERYTHING, that means he has full items on his bear and himself, which would make him a brutal carry but that's just not possible in the universe, even a Medusa with full items its more real than a 12 item Druid.
[sp]OPINIONS[/sp][/QUOTE]
I had a 120 min game once.
If one side had lone druid he would've been pretty farmed by then.
how MKB works with heroes that have bash or minibash? like void and sniper
THEY SOUND SO ALIKE GODDMANWHY
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jInU1-5dM3U[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVzaiZcDj2Y[/media]
I can't be the only one hearing it?
as a hardcore medievil fan
nope, some parts resemble it A LITTLE, but nothing that makes you instantly think of it
[QUOTE=Gate;37298078]how MKB works with heroes that have bash or minibash? like void and sniper[/QUOTE]
You get two separate chances for the bash to proc on each attack.
[QUOTE=Lone Wolf807;37293589]Why would you get necrobook when you could get something useful for carrying like Manta[/QUOTE]
Or that, yeah.
Or... Both? :v:
[editline]18th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Big Ben;37293911]I wish I knew the meta and how to build champions. People say it's so much better than League but when I tried even bots destroyed me, and it just made me give up.[/QUOTE]
Don't worry. Bots in this game are like the parts of a watch, where they work with perfect precision with each other for a kill.
Unless you turn the tables on them or are more farmed than them. They'll just run if they sense it wont work.
[editline]18th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=KillRay;37295339]Yeah, that's why I've always been on the fence with it. It's great when you ult but outside of that it's useless until you're tankier. (except the lifesteal I suppose) But I feel useless in the early fights when all I can do is ulti and do very little damage, and then they run away because I can't kill them.
That's just in my experience though.[/QUOTE]
Seems like its more of an item for someone who really knows what they do when they play void.
Otherwise, hyperstone seems better indeed. 30% damage seems like a lot, unless the enemy is made of auto-attackers and you have backtrack maxed along with butterfly and can escape perfectly.
[QUOTE=Gate;37298078]how MKB works with heroes that have bash or minibash? like void and sniper[/QUOTE]
You get two seperate chances, but Skull Basher won't stack with FV, Slardar or SB.
It will work on Sniper but you have a 10% chance so may as well not bother.
I think in terms of music they are trying to follow up on Warcraft 3 "themes". Very much tribal, warmongering.
Actually, I can't remember now. Which theme was played on Dota map in Warcraft III ? Was it random, hero dependant, can't recall it at all. I have some hunch at Undead theme, but that's it.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i7EqaC9bYk[/media]
Just had a great game. Decided to try Nature Prophet out, and went rather well. Towards the end of the match though, the enemy team gained an advantage, and ended up destroying most of our barracks and towers. And so as a last ditch effort, our team pushed mid, with such force that the towers went from full health to dust in seconds. In the end, we managed to win.
Hate it when you have a good game, but your team does badly. I was 8-6-14 with Rubick, but my team wouldn't stick around to help with pushes so we ended up losing as huskar was too fed in the end. :suicide:
Yesterday, had a bad, but still incredible game.
I died too much and the laning phase was rubbish, but the game was really great.
We thought we would lose really badly right after some minutes, but we ended up defending their attacks pretty well, and team fights were fucking great.
We even pushed quite a bit and we somehow did amazing team work like our void trapping the enemy and me inside his ulti while I had epicenter active.
It was pretty intense and a great match, even though we lost. If the laning phase had been better, we would certainly had won.
[QUOTE=Tokagero;37298618]I think in terms of music they are trying to follow up on Warcraft 3 "themes". Very much tribal, warmongering.
Actually, I can't remember now. Which theme was played on Dota map in Warcraft III ? Was it random, hero dependant, can't recall it at all. I have some hunch at Undead theme, but that's it.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i7EqaC9bYk[/media][/QUOTE]
The sentinel (radiant) players have the Night elves as race so they get the night elves themes, and the Scourge (dire) players have Undead as their race, so they had the undead themes.
God I've played warcraft so much that I got that song memorized.
[QUOTE=Malvodion;37299423]The sentinel (radiant) players have the Night elves as race so they get the night elves themes, and the Scourge (dire) players have Undead as their race, so they had the undead themes.
God I've played warcraft so much that I got that song memorized.[/QUOTE]
That's cause warcraft rocked!
Feeel it, this thread can use some music. It's RTS-y too!
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM3pk7aM2so[/media]
Did Valve mess up the particles for self-made items? I logged in yesterday to check out my self-made sword for Skeleton King and as soon as I spawned I exploded into bubble of red X's. I couldn't see anything coming from the sword, but an Invoker on the other team was freaking out and wondering why flying red X's were shooting out from me.
Keeper is so good, even if we lose I'm still doing really well!
[QUOTE=Tokagero;37299858]That's cause warcraft rocks![/QUOTE]
Fixed it for you. I'll never stop loving (or playing) WC3.
I'm going offtopic with this.
What heroes do you think they'll add in the update after the tournament?
Got 0/8/0 with ursa, apparently it's my fucking fault because of no wards and couriers and that I get ganged by 5 enemy heroes every time I step further away than the tier2 tower stands.
Mirana can't hold a fucking hardlane vs sniper/morph, what the fuck.. This game is so fucking stupid sometimes I want to punch a baby
[QUOTE=Malvodion;37300654]
What heroes do you think they'll add in the update after the tournament?[/QUOTE]
not meepo
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
