[QUOTE=Tampong;37322762][video=youtube;rzqp9hSZ9Vo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzqp9hSZ9Vo&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
Pretty interesting video about german tanks.[/QUOTE]
That guy's entire channel is full of documentaries like that. Pretty awesome.
[QUOTE=MadCatMkII;37320853]So I guess there was an M6 variant, the a2, that had a welded hull, rather than cast.
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/M6A1_heavy_tank_TM9-2800_p122.jpg/800px-M6A1_heavy_tank_TM9-2800_p122.jpg[/img]
Sexy.[/QUOTE]
Oh god yes they need to put that in.
Welded hulls are 200% sexier than the shitty cast ones.
I generally despise cast armors, perhaps except some turrets. Welded armors are so much more sexier.
Can someone outline the difference? Between weld and cast?
I'm lost here. I smell sarcasm but I can't see it...
Weld - You weld bits and pieces together.
Cast- You have a big mold. You pour the metal into that and make one big piece.
And this looks different somehow?
Now that's a rare thing to see.
[t]http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/125063342-4.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=Zakhodit;37323426]And this looks different somehow?[/QUOTE]
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/M6A1_heavy_tank_TM9-2800_p122.jpg/800px-M6A1_heavy_tank_TM9-2800_p122.jpg[/img]
Welded -^
[t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/M6_heavy_tank_TM9-2800_p120.jpg[/t]
Cast -^
Note how cast hulls are always a lot rounder.
Cybrid is just being weird. There's not enough difference visually for an ugly breadbox tank to not look like an ugly breadbox.
what the fuck i thought those were submarines not tanks
[QUOTE=Mbbird;37323628]Cybrid is just being weird. There's not enough difference visually for an ugly breadbox tank to not look like an ugly breadbox.[/QUOTE]
um
excuse you
it makes a big fucking difference
[QUOTE=Mbbird;37323628]Cybrid is just being weird. There's not enough difference visually for an ugly breadbox tank to not look like an ugly breadbox.[/QUOTE]
The main visual difference is that welded armor has sharp edges and corners and if possible flat surfaces, while cast armor has to be round.
Technical difference is that welded armor is more modern technology, it's easier to manufacture WHILE being stronger.
A rolled steel plate is much tougher than cast steel.
[editline]20th August 2012[/editline]
A very nice example is Sherman's hull armor.
Cast hull
[IMG]http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/imgs/m4-sherman_2.jpg[/IMG]
Welded hull
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/TankshermanM4.jpg/800px-TankshermanM4.jpg[/IMG]
(this being M4A1E8)
pros of cast armour: easy to manufacture, more structurally rigid than welded armour (fatigue from damage)
cons of cast armour: tools for specific parts are costly/complicated to produce (such as a mold for a sherman's turret)
pros of welded armour: easy to put together, does not require great skill from the factory workers
cons of welded armour: susceptible to fatigue, takes longer to produce than cast armour
[editline]20th August 2012[/editline]
casting was a big factor as to why american forces in ww2 did not adopt newer tanks when the sherman was not performing well enough because creating casting tools for new tanks would be too costly/take too much time. It was just easier to shove more tanks at the enemy.
[editline]20th August 2012[/editline]
also fuck year
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dF_dCBoKRM&feature=youtu.be[/media]
[QUOTE=Amplar;37323846]pros of cast armour: easy to manufacture, more structurally rigid than welded armour (fatigue from damage)
cons of cast armour: tools for specific parts are costly/complicated to produce (such as a mold for a sherman's turret)
pros of welded armour: easy to put together, does not require great skill from the factory workers
cons of welded armour: susceptible to fatigue, takes longer to produce than cast armour
[editline]20th August 2012[/editline]
casting was a big factor as to why american forces in ww2 did not adopt newer tanks when the sherman was not performing well enough because creating casting tools for new tanks would be too costly/take too much time. It was just easier to shove more tanks at the enemy.[/QUOTE]
Yeah and rolled plates are also much stronger than cast armor.
The welds are weakpoint and the tank can fall apart due to fatigue, but when you are speaking about chance to deflect a shell with the same thickness of armor, rolled plates provide improvement in tens of percent.
(you can make a tank of the same weight and better protection or lighter tank with same protection).
[editline]20th August 2012[/editline]
Another thing is that today the cons of welded plates have mostly withered, as we are much better at both plate production and welding.
We shit out steel plates like if we were printing newspapers and we can weld them together using robots.
Meanwhile casting steel into a form is simply not really improvable anyhow.
While we are already having a sperging session over technology, I would also like to present you with third piece;
Bolted armor
[img_thumb]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Banska-Bystrica-ceskoslovensky-lahky-tank-vzor-38-2.jpg[/img_thumb]
Czech Vzor 38, in the game present as by Germany captured Pz. 38(t)
The game also has Pz. 38 nA which uses welded armor, but I can't find any real picture of it.
Which is basically like welded armor but used bolts instead of welds.
It limits the maximal thickness the plate can have and it was outdated before beginning of the war. I think we will see a bit more of it once British tanks come on.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;37323777]The main visual difference is that welded armor has sharp edges and corners and if possible flat surfaces, while cast armor has to be round.
Technical difference is that welded armor is more modern technology, it's easier to manufacture WHILE being stronger.
A rolled steel plate is much tougher than cast steel.
[editline]20th August 2012[/editline]
A very nice example is Sherman's hull armor.
Cast hull
[IMG]http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/imgs/m4-sherman_2.jpg[/IMG]
Welded hull
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/TankshermanM4.jpg/800px-TankshermanM4.jpg[/IMG]
(this being M4A1E8)[/QUOTE]
I understand the fucking difference. But the M6 is just ugly. The cast hull sherman is only kind of ugly, and in that case [I]because it's cast hull[/I]. The M6 is just ugly because it's a monstrosity.
[QUOTE=Amplar;37323846]
also fuck year
[/QUOTE]
Why aren't you healing your commander?!
[QUOTE=Zakhodit;37323426]And this looks different somehow?[/QUOTE]
compare the ingame M4 Sherman and the M4A3E8 Sherman, the M4 is cast, E8 is welded
okay fuck me I should really refresh before posting
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;37323869]Yeah and rolled plates are also much stronger than cast armor.
The welds are weakpoint and the tank can fall apart due to fatigue, but when you are speaking about chance to deflect a shell with the same thickness of armor, rolled plates provide improvement in tens of percent.
(you can make a tank of the same weight and better protection or lighter tank with same protection).
[editline]20th August 2012[/editline]
Another thing is that today the cons of welded plates have mostly withered, as we are much better at both plate production and welding.
We shit out steel plates like if we were printing newspapers and we can weld them together using robots.
Meanwhile casting steel into a form is simply not really improvable anyhow.[/QUOTE]
Today nobody uses cast armor in tanks anymore mostly because the era of huge ass AP rounds is gone. Todays APFSDS rounds don't force the armor but bite it.
[QUOTE=Azaz3l;37323944]Today nobody uses cast armor in tanks anymore mostly because the era of huge ass AP rounds is gone. Todays APFSDS rounds don't force the armor but bite it.[/QUOTE]
And that aside tanks don't have the problem of falling apart at the edges anymore either. Armor today isn't as simple as plates on plates. So even raising caliber (EG: Swiss Pz87 at 140mm) wouldn't affect the structural integrity so much as raising caliber back then.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;37323869]Yeah and rolled plates are also much stronger than cast armor.
The welds are weakpoint and the tank can fall apart due to fatigue, but when you are speaking about chance to deflect a shell with the same thickness of armor, rolled plates provide improvement in tens of percent.
(you can make a tank of the same weight and better protection or lighter tank with same protection).
[editline]20th August 2012[/editline]
Another thing is that today the cons of welded plates have mostly withered, as we are much better at both plate production and welding.
We shit out steel plates like if we were printing newspapers and we can weld them together using robots.
Meanwhile casting steel into a form is simply not really improvable anyhow.
While we are already having a sperging session over technology, I would also like to present you with third piece;
Bolted armor
[img_thumb]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Banska-Bystrica-ceskoslovensky-lahky-tank-vzor-38-2.jpg[/img_thumb]
Czech Vzor 38, in the game present as by Germany captured Pz. 38(t)
The game also has Pz. 38 nA which uses welded armor, but I can't find any real picture of it.
Which is basically like welded armor but used bolts instead of welds.
It limits the maximal thickness the plate can have and it was outdated before beginning of the war. I think we will see a bit more of it once British tanks come on.[/QUOTE]
you should read tiger in the mud, carius was a loader in an LT38 and his tank took a hit. The armor was more lethal to the crew than the shell itself, because CZ steel then was really fucking horrible, and it was bolted.
WoT best community
[img]http://i.imgur.com/T7QB8.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Amplar;37324282]you should read tiger in the mud, carius was a loader in an LT38 and his tank took a hit. The armor was more lethal to the crew than the shell itself, because CZ steel then was really fucking horrible, and it was bolted.[/QUOTE]
Well, that was generally true for all tanks of early war. Spalling fucked up everyone.
British built their whole strategy on it - HESH rounds.
Bolted is very sexy.
Riveted.
If I recall correctly, riveted armor is very dangerous for the crew since an explosive shot could send rivets flying inside of the tank thus slaughtering anyone who's inside.
[QUOTE=pawelte1;37324665]If I recall correctly, riveted armor is very dangerous for the crew since an explosive shot could send rivets flying inside of the tank thus slaughtering anyone who's inside.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, apparently in WW1 tankers ended up wearing chainmail masks to protect from metal splinters and rivets.
[T]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Splatter_Mask_%28WWI%29.jpg/800px-Splatter_Mask_%28WWI%29.jpg[/T]
They're called splatter masks, they weren't really for the rivets but mainly for the shards of metal that would come off the inside of the tank's armour whenever a bullet hit the outside.
The x3 first win is over, kids, why are you dumb fucks still playing
[editline]21st August 2012[/editline]
Shitpubs
[QUOTE=cccino;37325676]The x3 first win is over, kids, why are you dumb fucks still playing
[editline]21st August 2012[/editline]
Shitpubs[/QUOTE]
EU still has 3x. Either way, I don't think it matters much. WoT will always be 90% retards, 10% decent players.
[QUOTE=Bowser_nl;37325717]EU still has 3x. Either way, I don't think it matters much. WoT will always be 90% retards, 10% decent players.[/QUOTE]
Oh it's pretty bad on NA right now.
[QUOTE=cccino;37325730]Oh it's pretty bad on NA right now.[/QUOTE]
Largely because there is still a lot of kids on Summer Vacation right now. Give it another week or so and things will probably get somewhat better as more and more schools start classes. But I would avoid playing on weekends unless there is a special going on.
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