Character Tips and Builds. - Games

[QUOTE=RagerTrader;36391040]Kunkka scales great into the late game, he has a AOE Nuke based on his attack damage. Boat looses it's bite, sure. But when you are dealing that much of damage, who cares about a hard to land 2 second stun?[/QUOTE] His only thing that scales into late game is his cleave damage and there are like 10 heroes that do it better. If you play Kunkka past the 45 minutes mark, you lose a lot of his potential.

Actually in the chinese dota Kunkka was a solid pick and everyone was afraid of him in the late game, and there really is no hero that can cleave better since it has a giant AoE with solid damage.

How would one build Kunkka then? I've just been going for attack speed + strength boots, vanguard and crystallis.

Don't go for attack speed as tidebringer procs on a static cooldown. You want damage and lots of it, a shadowblade gives you +120dmg and great positioning for your cleave. A Daedalus is a good upgrade from crystallis, but after that anything with raw damage like mkb, rapier, etc would be a solid pick. By that time, with a lucky crit, you could 1 hit ko the entire team. I prefer phase boots, maybe a bottle/urn as it gives you some pretty decent ganking potential early/mid game, but if you want to farm it up a battlefury is decent, and works well when your cleave is on cooldown for wiping out creep waves.

[QUOTE=Maruhai;36394300]His only thing that scales into late game is his cleave damage and there are like 10 heroes that do it better.[/QUOTE] like who?

[QUOTE=Captain Chalky;36395827]itt: people underestimate Kunkka because 'someone does it better' Getting really sick of people dissing 'Mix-and-Match' -heroes.[/QUOTE] Im not dissing Kunkka, I love that hero but one must acknowledge his weaknesses. He is a hero that hits hard every 6 seconds with a melee hit. Almost any carry will do better than him late game. You will get outcarried so you want to finish the game early, dont try lying to yourself. He is strong early game and you should abuse that.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;36397531]like who?[/QUOTE] Any carry that builds a Battlefury pretty much. [editline]19th June 2012[/editline] Special mention for Juggernaut and his built in crits.

uh, can't kunkka do exactly the same, then just get a daedalus and do it even better?

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;36397722]uh, can't kunkka do exactly the same, then just get a daedalus and do it even better?[/QUOTE] I'd rather have 100% of the time cleave and chance based crits than cooldown based cleave and chance based crits. It's a matter of opinion I guess.

[QUOTE=Maruhai;36397808]I'd rather have 100% of the time cleave and chance based crits than cooldown based cleave and chance based crits. It's a matter of opinion I guess.[/QUOTE] but kunkka builds battlefury too so.....

[QUOTE=Naught;36398128]but kunkka builds battlefury too so.....[/QUOTE] But that's two items instead of 1 for Juggernaut.

jugg also fills a seperate role you can go on and on all day about how x character outperforms x sven beats jug in that respect because he can buy daedalus and have the cleave from his passive so what

Kunkka's cleave has a much, much larger radius and does a lot more damage to begin with. I am pretty sure if he was objectively worse than other characters at filling his own role he wouldn't ever be picked in a variety of settings that he is picked in.

tiny does a better cleave, if hes got scepter.if you can somehow get huge attackspeed on tiny and gather all enemy team fora few seconds,cleave will do the rest

[QUOTE=Naught;36398766]jugg also fills a seperate role you can go on and on all day about how x character outperforms x sven beats jug in that respect because he can buy daedalus and have the cleave from his passive so what[/QUOTE] Daedalus has a higher price than Battlefury and Daed doesn't provide you extra HP + Mana regen. Jug is better than Sven. :eng101: [editline]19th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Allstone;36398881]I am pretty sure if he was objectively worse than other characters at filling his own role he wouldn't ever be picked in a variety of settings that he is picked in.[/QUOTE] That's why I never saw a Kunkka for the past 2 months then. :v:

[QUOTE=Maruhai;36399341]Daedalus has a higher price than Battlefury and Daed doesn't provide you extra HP + Mana regen. Jug is better than Sven. :eng101: [/QUOTE] Jug and Sven fill completely different roles. For one thing, Sven has good Str gain and Decent Agi gain, and Vice-versa for Juggernaut. This means Sven is a much better tank, but hits slower. Sven's cleave is also MUCH better the Bfury cleave- 60% damage for a tiny AoE loss compared to the Bfuries' 35%. For you argument about Jugg being "better" then Sven, he would need TWO battlefuries. Which cost more then a Daedulus. And uses two slots. Although, Daedalus is technically a less effective crit then Jugg's passive- Daedalus - 250% (The crit damage) x .25 (The crit chance) = 62.5% (The expected increase in your total damage. Blade Dance - 200% (The crit damage) X .35 (The crit chance) = 70% (The expected increase in your total damage.)

Having a bigger cleave percentage often doesn't matter when you get your crit off, everything dies regardless of 35% or 60%.

[QUOTE=Maruhai;36400141]Having a bigger cleave percentage often doesn't matter when you get your crit off, everything dies regardless of 35% or 60%.[/QUOTE] yeah man, who cares if it's double the cleave amount! that totally doesn't matter!

-snip until I can get formatting to work-

I found love for Juggernaut, I mainly increased blade fury and strength during the beginning of the game with a point in healing ward and crit strike for good measures. Near the end of the game, I had: Maxed blade dance 2 Healing ward Maxed blade fury 2 in omnislash I also had: Agility powertreads Perseverance Magic wand Ogre club Poor mans shield and teleport scrolls. I kind of focused more on str, since jugg is a bit weak in the HP department. Is this a good set up? Or is there a better way to get more HP on jugg?

[QUOTE=BoxinShrimp;36424566]I found love for Juggernaut, I mainly increased blade fury and strength during the beginning of the game with a point in healing ward and crit strike for good measures. Near the end of the game, I had: Maxed blade dance 2 Healing ward Maxed blade fury 2 in omnislash I also had: Agility powertreads Perseverance Magic wand Ogre club Poor mans shield and teleport scrolls. I kind of focused more on str, since jugg is a bit weak in the HP department. Is this a good set up? Or is there a better way to get more HP on jugg?[/QUOTE] Why didn't you finish your battlefury before buying the Ogre Club ?

[QUOTE=Maruhai;36427997]Why didn't you finish your battlefury before buying the Ogre Club ?[/QUOTE] Ehm. What's a battle fury?

[QUOTE=BoxinShrimp;36429240]Ehm. What's a battle fury?[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Battlefury[/url] You can make that from a Perseverance. Gives you cleave which lets you farm up easily, and also do a fuckton of damage in teamfights (and synergizes with Omnislash)

[QUOTE=BoxinShrimp;36429240]Ehm. What's a battle fury?[/QUOTE] The item you make using a Broadsword, a Claymore, and a Perseverance (you already had that). It synergises really well with Juggernaut, and allows you to farm quickly (it provides a cleave passive, meaning it will do damage to ever unit on the area).

[QUOTE=BoxinShrimp;36429240]Ehm. What's a battle fury?[/QUOTE] [url=http://www.dotastrategy.com/item-27-BattleFury.html]Not sure if this is updated[/url] It's usually a core on juggernaut since his crits go along with the dmg I believe.

Any tips for playing Shadow Demon? I've been mostly building up as much mana regen as I can, then using Shadow Poison as my main ability with Disruption and Demonic Purge being used in teamfights. I haven't really used Soul Catcher much since in my experience it picks a creep more often than a hero, but I think I should be using it more. I usually build up to a bloodstone for the massive mana regen boost, but I feel like something else would be better but I don't know what.

soul catcher is op if you can put it on a hero, he will drop like a fly once you focus him a tiny tiny bit you usually go q>w>e>w>q>r>w>q on him

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;36439067]Any tips for playing Shadow Demon? I've been mostly building up as much mana regen as I can, then using Shadow Poison as my main ability with Disruption and Demonic Purge being used in teamfights. I haven't really used Soul Catcher much since in my experience it picks a creep more often than a hero, but I think I should be using it more. I usually build up to a bloodstone for the massive mana regen boost, but I feel like something else would be better but I don't know what.[/QUOTE] The only few times I've played (randomed) Shadow Demon, I've stacked the closest hard camp like 10 times (Smoke+ShadowPoison spam to kill them), while farming the easy camp. (Farming it means stacking it as well while you kill them) Then I get stuff like manaboots/forcestaff and something by 20min (hopefully at least 18 stacks of hard camps killed in 2 separate occasions) and on I go with probably disabling in teamfights/pushing lanes. But SD is also good on a lane from beginning so I don't know, I just think it's funny to jungle with it.

[QUOTE=Captain Chalky;36439204]Are (1-2) Tango, (1-2) Clarity, a Mantle of Intelligence and a Ring of Protection good starting items for Rubick? My plan is to upgrade into Basilius and get Boots of Speed as fast as I can and then start building Eul's and Tranquil Boots (by disassembling the Basilius) and a Null Talisman. Am I thinking too small? I think this build would be quite effective on Rubick, but thanks to the low cost, maybe more effective on some support hero. Or should I just get the damn Arcane Boots and leave thinking to other people?[/QUOTE] Try to always get a salve if possible.

[QUOTE=Captain Chalky;36441433]Well, it's possible with that build, so okay.[/QUOTE] This works with every hero by the way, a set of tango and a salve is always the best choice.