depends how tanky you are, on treant i almost always go shield/tango/2x iron branches after buying courier.
Not having a salve means that you waste a long time staying on the backline if your HP are low, even if you eat your stack of tango, that's a good amount of time wasted doing nothing or taking the risk to get killed, maybe sometimes not even getting any XP.
With a salve, you can heal all that quickly, and not lose much gold/XP.
Friend of mine plays a lot of Witch Doctor, and told me today in Skype that he's considering how useful a Soul Ring would be. What do you guys think?
[QUOTE=Maruhai;36442303]Not having a salve means that you waste a long time staying on the backline if your HP are low, even if you eat your stack of tango, that's a good amount of time wasted doing nothing or taking the risk to get killed, maybe sometimes not even getting any XP.[/QUOTE]
If you're not taking that much damage in the first place or have natural regen then a salve is a bit of a waste of gold, especially if you can do something like buy an extra gg branch in its place. Tangos also have the (slight) advantage of not being wasted if the opponent gets a hit in on you.
[QUOTE=Jonii;36443377]Friend of mine plays a lot of Witch Doctor, and told me today in Skype that he's considering how useful a Soul Ring would be. What do you guys think?[/QUOTE]
I was bored so I took a look at this
Soul Ring takes 150 HP to give you 150 Mana, and lasts 10 seconds. Going to ignore the other stats for now.
Witch Doctor Level 1 Voodoo Restoration for 10 seconds: 160 HP, 80 Mana
Witch Doctor Level 2 Voodoo Restoration for 10 seconds: 240 HP, 140 Mana
Witch Doctor Level 3 Voodoo Restoration for 10 seconds: 320 HP, 200 Mana
Witch Doctor Level 4 Voodoo Restoration for 10 seconds: 400 HP, 260 Mana
In a purely mathematical sense, picking up a Soul Ring and two levels of Voodoo Restoration early game could be very worth it. As you can see you'd basically get 90 points of absolutely free healing. Plus the 240 pure healing for your lane partner.
However, in a realistic view, that heal is distributed over 10 seconds, which is a lot of time in Dota. A Soul Ring is also 800, which is a lot for a Support. For 75 more gold you can get an Urn of Shadows, a common item on Witch Doctor which provides heal, but also gives you some much needed Strength and a potential way of finishing off fleeing enemies. Soul Ring also tends to fall off in the later stages while an Urn is decent for pretty much the entire game.
I think it could be a very interesting thing to look into further though.
If your lane partner is the type who can dish out a lot of damage/stuns/etc. to protect you, but is also pretty fragile in return and generally has a difficult time laning this could be an interesting pick up as you could heal him pretty consistently, and that kind of heal early on is a big deal. You could even experiment with this by completely having him skip regeneration items for a really fast core, and if used effectively he'll also be able to lane very aggressively and force the enemy out of lane for very easy farm. Or keeping your regeneration for a ridiculous amount and use that for a very fast push strat.
That being said though, it's risky. Like I said the heal is distributed over a very long time and you're more vulnerable for buying this, it requires a competent teammate, and basically turns you into a very hard support as you'll likely end up dying more due to the lack of Strength.
Someone should probably examine my logic further because I'm bad at these things.
a Daedalus on Drow is sex
[QUOTE=NoName-;36463907]a Daedalus on Drow is sex[/QUOTE]
Daedalus is core on pretty much all agility carries though.
With exceptions such as Lone Druid and Ursa of course, but core for most carries.
I'd like to try out Sand King, but before I do can people give me some general tips on his play style? I already looked up his item builds.
[QUOTE=Samiam22;36464347]Daedalus is core on pretty much all agility carries though.
With exceptions such as Lone Druid and Ursa of course, but core for most carries.[/QUOTE]
Actually, only Drow, Faceless Void and Sniper have Daedalus as a must have item for the agility carries. There are some that could get it ( Shadow Fiend, Clinkz, Mirana) but dont do it too often. Everyone else either just doesnt need it or already has a crit skill.
[QUOTE=Captain Chalky;36479716]How high level disadvantage a support hero should have when played correctly (wards, courier and giving last hits to the carry)? Couple levels? Or should assists and possible kills keep you even with rest of the team?[/QUOTE]
Well you should always stand near the people about to die, and the creeps too, until level 16 at least.
Of course, if whoever you play with is doing it right he's probably gotten one or two free levels from ganks you weren't on.
[QUOTE=BoxinShrimp;36476206]I'd like to try out Sand King, but before I do can people give me some general tips on his play style? I already looked up his item builds.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure he is an initiator. Blink dagger is a core item, as he can channel his ultimate outside of a fight, then just as the ultimate actually starts he can blink in and basically fuck a whole enemy team.
As far as I know, he seems like a jack of all trades in that he can gank pretty well with his Burrowstrike, have good survivability with his Sand Storm, and farm and push well with his Caustic Finale, as well as initiate and whatnot with his ultimate.
So yeah, apparently he can do a lot of stuff. If I ever play him, I'd personally play him as a roamer/ganker.
snip
[QUOTE=Captain Chalky;36479716]How high level disadvantage a support hero should have when played correctly (wards, courier and giving last hits to the carry)? Couple levels? Or should assists and possible kills keep you even with rest of the team?[/QUOTE]
If you're playing well and ganking whenever you can, none.
But that's irrealistic.
Try to stay 3 or 4 levels below at most.
[QUOTE=Maruhai;36482228]If you're playing well and ganking whenever you can, none.
But that's irrealistic.
Try to stay 3 or 4 levels below at most.[/QUOTE]
Forgot to mention.
If you are playing Omniknight the heal is an extremely powerful damage dealer early on, can be used for first blood, killing, or generally hurting half their HP.
[QUOTE=Rarara;36482287]Forgot to mention.
The heal is an extremely powerful damage dealer early on, can be used for first blood, killing, or generally hurting half their HP.[/QUOTE]
Are you talking about a hero in particular ? Because we didn't mention any.
[QUOTE=Maruhai;36482303]Are you talking about a hero in particular ? Because we didn't mention any.[/QUOTE]
Derp, I forgot to mention "If you play Omniknight..."
[QUOTE=Rarara;36482322]Derp, I forgot to mention "If you play Omniknight..."[/QUOTE]
That advice also applies to dazzle.
[editline]25th June 2012[/editline]
Also ,how ar eyou suppose dot build choas Knight? I tried Grabbing a Salve, Tango, 2 Gauntlets to build into Urn, and 2 brances, which seems to work pretty well.
Is the best order Urn/Treads/Bottle(For roaming)/Drum/whatever luxury you want?
When I play CK I usually play him sidelane with a support and skip items such as bottle and urn and start stacking survivability.
I end up with Drum Vanguard Pipe Heart most of the time, completed with the typical Armlet.
[QUOTE=RagerTrader;36482365]That advice also applies to dazzle.
[editline]25th June 2012[/editline]
Also ,how ar eyou suppose dot build choas Knight? I tried Grabbing a Salve, Tango, 2 Gauntlets to build into Urn, and 2 brances, which seems to work pretty well.
Is the best order Urn/Treads/Bottle(For roaming)/Drum/whatever luxury you want?[/QUOTE]
You should really get an armlet somewhere in there, maybe after threads.
[QUOTE=Rarara;36483053]You should really get an armlet somewhere in there, maybe after threads.[/QUOTE]
without any lifesteal? sure
[QUOTE=Rarara;36483053]You should really get an armlet somewhere in there, maybe after threads.[/QUOTE]
Armlet is terrible if you don't have incredible HP regen to cover it up, either should it be lifesteal or HoT.
[QUOTE=Maruhai;36483440]Armlet is terrible if you don't have incredible HP regen to cover it up, either should it be lifesteal or HoT.[/QUOTE]
I thought armlet was good because my friend who plays Chaos Knight a lot always says to get it early.
Guess not then.
[QUOTE=Maruhai;36483440]Armlet is terrible if you don't have incredible HP regen to cover it up, either should it be lifesteal or HoT.[/QUOTE]
its good because illusions get the armlet buff (but dont lose hp) if you activate it before using ultimate
Pipe on CK sounds awfully supportish and CK is not a support. When I get money I usually get an AC or Heavens Halberd or BKB if there are way too many stuns or im getting focused on.
After the standard Treads, wand, drums, bottle of course.
Pipe is often picked up on initiators, like Beastmaster and Tidehunter.
[QUOTE=Santz;36483819]Pipe on CK sounds awfully supportish and CK is not a support[/QUOTE]
since when was pipe built solely on supports, its a fine item on ck
[QUOTE=The Mighty Boat;36483899]since when was pipe built solely on supports, its a fine item on ck[/QUOTE]
I know its core on non-supports like Dark Seer but on CK is a waste.
Edit;
Unless the supports or people in your team suck at farming and you seriously NEED a pipe.
[QUOTE=Santz;36484390]I know its core on non-supports like Dark Seer but on CK is a waste.
Edit;
Unless the supports or people in your team suck at farming and you seriously NEED a pipe.[/QUOTE]
in almost every game you should at least have a cloak, getting a pipe on ck is absolutely fine because his illusions benefit greatly from the magic resistance and active since the main way to counter phantasm is with aoe magic damage. if someone else on your team is going for a hood and they can get the pipe faster than you, great, build something else, but if theyre not its a decent item to consider
[editline]25th June 2012[/editline]
you should have a pipe in every team every game because its great for teamfights, defending and pushing. if one team has a pipe and the other doesnt the one with the pipe has a big advantage
I know you must have one if there is any sort of magical damage in the enemy team(which is always) but unless your team are 4 carries and yourself as CK, you should not get it yourself!!!
CK already has mana problems, you add another 100 mana usage to him and you might not have for the next reality rift, or for that so much follow up stun.
I WONT DENIE IT, you CAN get it but only IF nobody else in your shitty team is getting it. And I say shitty because they force a poor CK into getting an item that as useful as it is, he shouldnt be getting it.
[QUOTE=Santz;36483819]Pipe on CK sounds awfully supportish and CK is not a support. When I get money I usually get an AC or Heavens Halberd or BKB if there are way too many stuns or im getting focused on.
After the standard Treads, wand, drums, bottle of course.[/QUOTE]
Yeah that's exactly why Pipe is core on Dragon Knight (in comp) and Pudge right ?
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