The Halo Thread V8: Nooo Mongoose, Come Back! - Games

[QUOTE=Grim Joker;36047507]Wasn't Halo the original FPS to start the regenerating health trend?[/QUOTE] It started the trend but I'm almost certain it wasn't the original game to have it.

[QUOTE=Raijin;36047531]It started the trend but I'm almost certain it wasn't the original game to have it.[/QUOTE] But that's not what the guy said. He said it started a trend of slow gameplay and regenerating health, and he was right. Well, on the regenerating health bit. I don't really see that many FPS games have gone for slower gameplay. But yeah, I don't see why what he said was so terrible.

Faceball 2000 and Wolverine: Adamantium Rage on the SNES and Genesis had it.

[QUOTE=Grim Joker;36047507]Wasn't Halo the original FPS to start the regenerating health trend?[/QUOTE] Pretty sure it originated in Roguelike games in the 80's. [editline]21st May 2012[/editline] Whoops, didn't notice the new page.

The regenerating health in Halo wasn't that bad because you also had a shield. In some other games though they have weapons do lots of damage, and have health regenerate fairly slowly, so if you get shot once or twice you're near death and have to spend the next 20 seconds starting at cover.

[QUOTE=TheDecryptor;36048385]The regenerating health in Halo wasn't that bad because you also had a shield. In some other games though they have weapons do lots of damage, and have health regenerate fairly slowly, so if you get shot once or twice you're near death and have to spend the next 20 seconds starting at cover.[/QUOTE] In Halo 1, the regen health was the shield and nothing more. Why 343 decided to make the Halo 4 health system the same 100% regen health as Halo 2/3 is beyond me though, seems like a step backwards IMO after Reach and ODST brought the health system back in line with Halo 1.

[QUOTE=certified;36048574]In Halo 1, the regen health was the shield and nothing more. Why 343 decided to make the Halo 4 health system the same 100% regen health as Halo 2/3 is beyond me though, seems like a step backwards IMO after Reach and ODST brought the health system back in line with Halo 1.[/QUOTE] Gee, idk. Perhaps it's because Master Chief's Armor is the same armor system as Halo's 2 and 3.

[QUOTE=Delta616;36048667]Gee, idk. Perhaps it's because Master Chief's Armor is the same armor system as Halo's 2 and 3.[/QUOTE] I'm quite positive he meant from a gameplay standpoint Either way, I don't really care. It amounted to the same thing most of the time.

[QUOTE=blerb;36048680]I'm quite positive he meant from a gameplay standpoint Either way, I don't really care. It amounted to the same thing most of the time.[/QUOTE] Well they didn't from a Canon Standpoint, all because the appreance of the Armor has changed, it is still the "same" Mark VI MJOLNIR, just ascetically different.

[QUOTE=certified;36048574][B]In Halo 1, the regen health was the shield and nothing more.[/B] Why 343 decided to make the Halo 4 health system the same 100% regen health as Halo 2/3 is beyond me though, seems like a step backwards IMO after Reach and ODST brought the health system back in line with Halo 1.[/QUOTE] Wow, how did I forget this, I only played it a couple of days ago. Not doing it in ODST makes sense (You're not a Spartan), and Reach would be because it predates Halo 1 story wise. They were talking about Cortana upgrading the Chief's suit through nanobots, so they could just handwave it as that.

[QUOTE=TheDecryptor;36049443]Wow, how did I forget this, I only played it a couple of days ago. Not doing it in ODST makes sense (You're not a Spartan), and Reach would be because it predates Halo 1 story wise. They were talking about Cortana upgrading the Chief's suit through nanobots, so they could just handwave it as that.[/QUOTE] If Cortana was upgrading The Chief's suit, why would it suddenly lose it's auto-injectors? That's a complete technological step downwards.

[QUOTE=TheDecryptor;36049443] They were talking about Cortana upgrading the Chief's suit through nanobots, so they could just handwave it as that.[/QUOTE] That would be a downgrade! Damn, Grim beat me to it.

Gameplay.

[QUOTE=Agoat;36049833]Gameplay.[/QUOTE] Why is it suddenly the big consensus that health bars are better than auto-regenerating health? Like, I don't know about you guys, but it's fake difficulty when an enemy sneezes on me and I need to backtrack through the level to find a single health pack. It requires more strategy and caution, sure, but that's never what Halo has been about. In Halo 4 you're playing as either Master Chief, the biggest badass killing machine the universe has ever seen, or a Spartan IV, which looks like some kind of walking tank. Neither of these things should be seen scouring past areas for a health pack every five minutes on Legendary difficulty. I'll take my regenerating health over a health bar, thanks.

[QUOTE=Grim Joker;36050038]Why is it suddenly the big consensus that health bars are better than auto-regenerating health? Like, I don't know about you guys, but it's fake difficulty when an enemy sneezes on me and I need to backtrack through the level to find a single health pack.[/QUOTE] But this is why you have the regenerating shields. You shouldn't take health damage at all unless you get ambushed or caught in an explosion. I'd prefer if more games used a hybrid health system like Chronicles of Riddick, but I still prefer health bars over complete health regen.

[QUOTE=Grim Joker;36050038] Neither of these things should be seen scouring past areas for a health pack every five minutes on Legendary difficulty. I'll take my regenerating health over a health bar, thanks.[/QUOTE] Yeah I think I spent half the levels with 1 red bar, didnt really do much to be honest.

[QUOTE=Zezibesh;36050429]But this is why you have the regenerating shields. You shouldn't take health damage at all unless you get ambushed or caught in an explosion. I'd prefer if more games used a hybrid health system like Chronicles of Riddick, but I still prefer health bars over complete health regen.[/QUOTE] What? Did you ever play Halo: Combat Evolved? Even on Normal, you would usually take health damage if it was a decent sized fight. On Heroic and Legendary you were lucky if you came away from a fight with anything but a tiny red sliver of health. It got easier as time went on, but against the Covenant you would almost always take some health damage.

[QUOTE=Grim Joker;36050714]What? Did you ever play Halo: Combat Evolved? Even on Normal, you would usually take health damage if it was a decent sized fight. On Heroic and Legendary you were lucky if you came away from a fight with anything but a tiny red sliver of health. It got easier as time went on, but against the Covenant you would almost always take some health damage.[/QUOTE] Halo: CE is my most played Halo game. If you didn't try to tank it through fights but rather used grenades generously and made good use of cover you could come out of almost any fight with no health damage. Talking of Heroic here, as that's what I mostly played. And what if you had to walk around with just one red bar? It just adds challenge and forces you to play more carefully. With complete health and shield regen you always approach every fight on the same terms. It makes it easier for the developer to balance but more boring for me.

[QUOTE=Zezibesh;36050743]Halo: CE is my most played Halo game. If you didn't try to tank it through fights but rather used grenades generously and made good use of cover you could come out of almost any fight with no health damage. Talking of Heroic here, as that's what I mostly played. And what if you had to walk around with just one red bar? It just adds challenge and forces you to play more carefully. With complete health and shield regen you always approach every fight on the same terms. It makes it easier for the developer to balance but more boring for me.[/QUOTE] Wait, but, health bars makes you approach every fight on the same terms, too. Cautiously. You just hide and pop out occasionally to shoot. It's the same exact thing but way slower and way more boring. Health regeneration offers a false sense of security. In Halo 2 and Halo 3 there were a lot of situations you had to approach in different ways. Chieftans often forced you to fight defensively, and the Scarab segments made you think of ways to take on your enemies from the sides, or from behind. If Health Regeneration makes a game boring, that means the game was poorly designed, not that there's anything wrong with Health Regeneration.

[QUOTE=Grim Joker;36049622]If Cortana was upgrading The Chief's suit, why would it suddenly lose it's auto-injectors? That's a complete technological step downwards.[/QUOTE] I'm not talking about losing anything, I'm just saying they could use Cortana making changes as an in-universe reason for changing how the health works.

[QUOTE=Grim Joker;36047507]Wasn't Halo the original FPS to start the regenerating health trend?[/QUOTE] No man, Halo INVENTED Fps! :downs:

[QUOTE=Civil;36051924]No man, Halo INVENTED Fps! :downs:[/QUOTE] He wasn't implying that at all.

[QUOTE=Funky Pickle;36043550]I personally think the Campaign is way too repetitive.[/QUOTE] It's very vaguely repetitive, but less so than other games, and also keep in mind that it's over ten years old, and compared to many AAA games, halo still has enemy variety....

[QUOTE=Grim Joker;36050038]Why is it suddenly the big consensus that health bars are better than auto-regenerating health? Like, I don't know about you guys, but it's fake difficulty when an enemy sneezes on me and I need to backtrack through the level to find a single health pack. It requires more strategy and caution, sure, but that's never what Halo has been about. In Halo 4 you're playing as either Master Chief, the biggest badass killing machine the universe has ever seen, or a Spartan IV, which looks like some kind of walking tank. Neither of these things should be seen scouring past areas for a health pack every five minutes on Legendary difficulty. I'll take my regenerating health over a health bar, thanks.[/QUOTE] I appreciate you trying to make a big post on what you think it my opinion, but having health in Halo 1, Reach, and ODST really boiled down to gameplay. If you want to get fancy with story, Reach happened immediately before Halo 1. In ODST, they wanted you to not feel like a Spartan, so they reduced shields and added health. This isn't a "big consensus", this is what Bungie did. I'm sorry it has upset you.

[QUOTE=Agoat;36054680]I appreciate you trying to make a big post on what you think it my opinion, but having health in Halo 1, Reach, and ODST really boiled down to gameplay. If you want to get fancy with story, Reach happened immediately before Halo 1. In ODST, they wanted you to not feel like a Spartan, so they reduced shields and added health. This isn't a "big consensus", this is what Bungie did. I'm sorry it has upset you.[/QUOTE] I'm not talking about the games, I'm talking about why everyone wants a health bar in Halo 4. It made sense in all of those games for there to be health bars, because the equipment you were using was technologically inferior to the stuff you used in Halo 2 and 3. In Halo 4 you're actually getting an upgrade, so it would make absolutely no sense to have a health bar, even from a gameplay standpoint. It would be a giant step backwards for the series.

Ok so how am i suppose to get that anniversary achievement for being the last survivor when zombies never show up? I only need achievements for reach.

[QUOTE=Grim Joker;36058576]I'm not talking about the games, I'm talking about why everyone wants a health bar in Halo 4. It made sense in all of those games for there to be health bars, because the equipment you were using was technologically inferior to the stuff you used in Halo 2 and 3. In Halo 4 you're actually getting an upgrade, so it would make absolutely no sense to have a health bar, even from a gameplay standpoint. It would be a giant step backwards for the series.[/QUOTE] You're not talking about the games? You seem to misunderstand what gameplay means. The best way to express what gameplay is the multiplayer. No story (until Halo 4 releases), just online play. This is where the core features of the game are the most apparent. You are talking about story, the mostly single player justification as to why things are the way they are. Why does Chief no longer have to manage his health in addition to his shields? He got an armor upgrade. While there is a gameplay shift here, that justification applies to the story. Gameplay needs very little justification, story does. I don't see "everyone" wanting a health bar in Halo 4. I see a lot of concern and confusion as to how Halo 4 will play, but not a clamoring for the health system.

[QUOTE=Agoat;36061237]You're not talking about the games? You seem to misunderstand what gameplay means. The best way to express what gameplay is the multiplayer. No story (until Halo 4 releases), just online play. This is where the core features of the game are the most apparent. You are talking about story, the mostly single player justification as to why things are the way they are. Why does Chief no longer have to manage his health in addition to his shields? He got an armor upgrade. While there is a gameplay shift here, that justification applies to the story. Gameplay needs very little justification, story does. I don't see "everyone" wanting a health bar in Halo 4. I see a lot of concern and confusion as to how Halo 4 will play, but not a clamoring for the health system.[/QUOTE] I've seen a lot of clamoring for a health system. In this thread quite a few people have expressed a desire to see the health bar return, and I've seen it elsewhere, as well. That's what I'm saying. Gameplay in Halo has generally been justified for the story, and the story likewise justified by the gameplay. When Chief's armor has auto-injectors for two games straight, and then gets an armor upgrade, it wouldn't make any sense at all for him to suddenly require health packs again. It's an upgrade, not a downgrade. Health bar stuff made sense in the other games, but as far as Halo 4 goes, I don't see why they'd return to a health bar. It just wouldn't make any sense.

[QUOTE=Bokito;36045924]Doesn't work in multiplayer. Play Halo Custom Edition on Coldsnap/Extinction and you'll see what I mean.[/QUOTE] That's because of the amount of snipers, Jet rapists and auto lock missile launcher campers that stay around the map

The fact is a Health System Like in CE, ODST, and Reach would be a downgrade in the Mark VI armor system! It's not going to happen.