Why the tech of the Halo Universe is a step backward. - Games

Really smart to call a Moderator a moron when you're edging trolling by having your argument consist entirely of "I'm right, if you can't agree with me you're a moron"

[QUOTE=ChosenOne54;27259346]It wouldn't. They would simply send tanks and infantry to take care of it. I really can't see grunts giving modern day soldiers much of a challenge. Most Covenant squads are made up of mostly grunts, with one or two elites. The grunts would be mowed down in seconds, and the large elites would be cannon fodder to the tanks. Well there are, you know, anti-air missiles and stuff. Have you seen the amount of firepower a squad of soldiers can put out? The Elite would be toast, if the squad is well-organised. It doesn't matter how strong your armour is; if you are being peppered by all directions, you will go down fast, energy shields or not. Anti-material rifle? You mean like the Barrett .50 cal? Two shots really isn't much, especially when you have a squad backing you up. And subsequently get shot at every angle, and blown apart. The Banshee would be severely outclassed by modern-day fighter jets. I can't see the seraph giving much trouble either.[/QUOTE] Very, VERY true. [editline]7th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=BmB;27262934]There isn't anything to explain if you didn't get it because in the book it's as clear cut as it possibly can be. I'm sorry you're a moron.[/QUOTE] I really dislike seeing someone who can't hold a debate without insulting another person.

He can't debate because he's not got anything to actually debate with, saying it is crap is his entire argument (which isn't an argument at all without relevant or even any points to bring up as to why he thinks it is so.)

[QUOTE=P1X3L N1NJA;27261386]I dont think an anti air missle would be able to hit something not only that small but falling that fast on entry into the atmosphere. Elites dont work alone they have their cannon fodder grunts to take the bullets for them while they make precise shots, sure alone he will probably die to a squad but not without at least of of your guys dying, His shields would hold up long enough to kill at least one of you. Banshees aren't supposed to be like fighter jets we dont really have a counter part to them because they are so strange, they play the role of an attack helicopter but hang around the battle rather than there to just provide support.[/QUOTE] The Apache attack helicopter would blow them to bits. And you're wrong, we have very effective anti-missile systems. One such type is the type used on American Aircraft carriers, which are VERY effective against small missiles. [editline]7th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=RayvenQ;27263407]He can't debate because he's not got anything to actually debate with, saying it is crap is his entire argument (which isn't an argument at all without relevant or even any points to bring up as to why he thinks it is so.)[/QUOTE] I agree, I think it's very sad to see someone so intolerant of another's opinion. [editline]7th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Mipit;27251993]And this thread started so nicely.[/QUOTE] I know, it's sad, isn't it?

There isn't an opinion to hold there is one way to interpret it because of how clear cut it is. Guy in suit moves too fast, suit overcompensates, breaks his bones. Spartan in suit moves too fast, suit overcompensates and nearly breaks his bones. Neither would have happened if they hadn't been stupid. A normal person who knows what he's doing can wear it just the same because if you know what you're doing like the spartans learn to you won't be in the overcompensation situation. And all of that is supplemented by Halsey's journal that reveals a safety system to prevent exactly this sort of thing, only it had been disabled for the tests. In other news, the sky is blue.

Even if the suit has a safety system, i doubt it'd even work anywhere near like it was meant to, would probably move slow as fuck in it. Maybe they had tested it with the safeties on, and that was the first test with the safeties off because they reached the limit of what the suit could do with the safeties on. IT's more like: Guy in suit moves, (he didn't over compensate, the first movement broke his arm and his agony induced spasms wer ethen multiplied by the suit compounding the problem even further.) the suit multiplies that movement, as it was designed to, but is too powerful for a normal body to withstand, hence why the spartans go through all that engineering to make their bones stronger, their reactions stronger (to better compensate for small movement stec) to simply get them into the suit. Spartan bones were modified to be 2-4 times stronger than an unmodified human, when the chief salutes without thinking when he first puts it on, he [I]nearly[/I] breaks his wrist. What you can't seem to understand is the Spartans were made for Mjolnir, not the other way round. It even mentions that the predeccessor to Mjolnir existed, but it was big, bulky, heavy and slow with a limited power supply.

No, the safety system is described to have no limiting effect beyond what would injure the wearer. The system however, wasn't entirely ready (iirc) and they went ahead with the test early. What you can't seem to understand is that the spartans learn to not move their muscles but simply excite them enough to make the suit move. This produces no ill effects whatsoever. Add the safety system and there is no logical reason why a normal human wouldn't be able to wear it.

No, the spartans move their muscles, they just had to relearn how much movement in their muscles transformed into movement with the suit. Actually, they think about moving them, at least thats how its described, but thinking about how much to move your muscle needed to be relearned because of it magnifying their strength. They move, the suit moves, they just have to factor in how much to move (which they can to a greater degree because their reaction times have been greatly increased) There's also the consideration of weight, the suit, with a spartan in it, weighed about half a ton, a normal person wouldn't be able to wear it. Where exactly did you get this source of the journal from, as afaik, it wasn't shown as written, but just as the spartans watching the recording of the test.

Journal comes with Halo Reach limited and upwards. Weight has no bearing on the wearability of *power armor*. It makes you stronger not weaker. Yeah see, that was exactly what I said. And there is no logical conclusion that says a normal human can't do the same. Simply excite the muscles enough to make the suit move, just by thinking about moving your muscles. The force created has no ill effects. Halsey designed the suit. And she sure as hell didn't design it for exclusive Spartan use.

Spartans gets their toes cut off to fit more armor in the feet of the suit. That's why normal humans can't wear them. [editline]7th January 2011[/editline] Or what RayvenQ said, that works too.

[QUOTE=BmB;27263867]Journal comes with Halo Reach limited and upwards.[/QUOTE] So your entire argument for Fall of Reach being shit is from a game that was 1. made almost a decade since it was released and 2. radically altered what was known to have happened on reach from all the other books?

[QUOTE=BmB;27263867]Journal comes with Halo Reach limited and upwards. Weight has no bearing on the wearability of *power armor*. It makes you stronger not weaker. Yeah see, that was exactly what I said. And there is no logical conclusion that says a normal human can't do the same. Simply excite the muscles enough to make the suit move, just by thinking about moving your muscles. The force created has no ill effects. Halsey designed the suit. And she sure as hell didn't design it for exclusive Spartan use.[/QUOTE] The Mark III, IV, and V suits, to my knowledge, work just as Rayven describes-- they enhance movement, but to a degree that no normal human can withstand. At least one of the books specifically mentions that the Spartan project was a result of the MJOLNIR project, and not the other way around-- Halsey needed supersoldiers to use her power armor. Spartan-IIs are augmented to withstand that armor. Spartan-IIIs, which you may be thinking of, on the other hand, have fewer augmentations and receive much more manageable power armor, albeit at the cost of effectiveness. To my knowledge. It has been a while since I read Ghosts of Onyx. Put it this way. You have a guy holding your arm-- when you move it, he pushes it as well. Now, replace the guy with an idealized machine-- something that moves your arm at pretty much the same exact time that you move, and with an enormous amount of force. Now replace the arm with an arm made of a fairly weak material. It's pretty easy to imagine that with enough force and with a weak enough arm, the forces involved would tear the "weak" arm apart. Therefore, an arm can be broken by enough force, and it's simply a matter of scaling it up. MJOLNIR power armor is no ordinary power armor-- it is incredibly powerful, and none of the games really show quite how fast it acts or how powerful it really is. I believe the master chief, in his first test of the armor, manages to either catch or push a rocket coming towards him.

He slaps it aside, albeit with help from Cortana with the timing.

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;27263965]So your entire argument for Fall of Reach being shit is from a game that was 1. made almost a decade since it was released and 2. radically altered what was known to have happened on reach from all the other books?[/QUOTE] I believe bungie materials and games take precedence in canon. Not a bad thing either because fall of reach is terrible.

[QUOTE=BmB;27263867]Journal comes with Halo Reach limited and upwards. Weight has no bearing on the wearability of *power armor*. It makes you stronger not weaker. Yeah see, that was exactly what I said. And there is no logical conclusion that says a normal human can't do the same. Simply excite the muscles enough to make the suit move, just by thinking about moving your muscles. The force created has no ill effects. Halsey designed the suit. And she sure as hell didn't design it for exclusive Spartan use.[/QUOTE] I remember on a book, a non-spartan used the suit and broke a lot of bones trying to. The name sadly escaped my mind

[QUOTE=Itszutak;27264186]The Mark III, IV, and V suits, to my knowledge, work just as Rayven describes-- they enhance movement, but to a degree that no normal human can withstand.[/QUOTE] No, this is the common, but gross misinterpretation of that chapter in FoA. I gave my correct interpretation before. When applying too much force results in lethal response, the logical conclusion isn't "lol only spart4ns can use xD" it's "don't apply too much force and you'll be fine" Because spartans don't apply too much force and they don't suffer ill effects. The one time they did, which was in the same scene even, he did suffer ill effects, albeit not lethal because of the augmentations. You need to be a spartan to survive a malfunction. But you don't need to be a spartan to use it. In other words [highlight]you can't use the material I have shown to be falsely interpreted to support that interpretation[/highlight]

[QUOTE=BmB;27264409]I believe bungie materials and games take precedence in canon. Not a bad thing either because fall of reach is terrible.[/QUOTE] Maybe so, but you're using stuff written and retconned almost a decade later to say the book was crap, when it was far from that. And even using your argument, only spartans have the fine muscle control (that they have because of their enhancements) to apply less than too much force. anyone else, even as slow as they can, will still move too fast for them to be able to control it and not injure themselves. It's like blinking, and then closing your eyes at the same speed as blinking but only closing them 70% (best analogy i could come up with on the spur of the moment) Also, to use your "Bungie Canon" card against you, if it were possible for non spartans to use the suits, they'd have had it in at least one game of the series, or even slightly mentioned it.

No I thought it was crap before reach was even announced. Which made me extra excited because I knew Bungie's take on the subject would be better. [editline]7th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=RayvenQ;27264570]Maybe so, but you're using stuff written and retconned almost a decade later to say the book was crap, when it was far from that. And even using your argument, only spartans have the fine muscle control (that they have because of their enhancements) to apply less than too much force. anyone else, even as slow as they can, will still move too fast for them to be able to control it and not injure themselves.[/QUOTE] Uh... no? It's a documented medical phenomenon that muscles excite themselves extremely lightly when you just think about moving them. This is not a spartan ability. This is just something humans do.

If you want to go by canon, you can't say anyone can wear it until its shown ingame that they can. Sure, a normal person [I]could[/I] do that, but a spartan can do it better and in a more controlled manner, which is key with something that magnifies everything you do. (BTW, 40K > Halo, period.)

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;27264693]If you want to go by canon, you can't say anyone can wear it until its shown ingame that they can. Sure, a normal person [I]could[/I] do that, but a spartan can do it better and in a more controlled manner, which is key with something that magnifies everything you do. (BTW, 40K > Halo, period.)[/QUOTE] Yes.

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;27264693]If you want to go by canon, you can't say anyone can wear it until its shown ingame that they can. Sure, a normal person [I]could[/I] do that, but a spartan can do it better and in a more controlled manner, which is key with something that magnifies everything you do. (BTW, 40K > Halo, period.)[/QUOTE] starcraft = 40k > halo to me anyways [editline]7th January 2011[/editline] also all of this talk about suits and self injury remind me of all of those prototype suits in iron man 2 lol where the suit's torso does a complete 180 with the guy inside

40k > Starcraft. Zerglings? Hah, Tyranids > Zerglings, in both danger and amount.

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;27264693]If you want to go by canon, you can't say anyone can wear it until its shown ingame that they can. Sure, a normal person [I]could[/I] do that, but a spartan can do it better and in a more controlled manner, which is key with something that magnifies everything you do. (BTW, 40K > Halo, period.)[/QUOTE] Now you're the one who just wants to be right with nothing to back it up. Oh the irony. You have become that which you hate.

Nope, you started using canon as an excuse to back your arguments, so i counter-canoned. Your entire argument revolved around a near decade late retcon.

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;27265239]40k > Starcraft. Zerglings? Hah, Tyranids > Zerglings, in both danger and amount.[/QUOTE] yeah but 40k is less realistic cuz they all massively op

It's also 40,000 years in the future, i suspect humanity may have advanced since then. Realism alone doesn't help make something better, but a 2 to 3 decade long background history sure does.

also IG <3 aw broke merge

[QUOTE=P1X3L N1NJA;27261386]I dont think an anti air missle would be able to hit something not only that small but falling that fast on entry into the atmosphere. [/QUOTE] If the military can design anti-ballistic missile defense systems, I don't think a pod dropping through the atmosphere would be too hard to counter, though it might be difficult. [QUOTE]Elites dont work alone they have their cannon fodder grunts to take the bullets for them while they make precise shots, sure alone he will probably die to a squad but not without at least of of your guys dying, His shields would hold up long enough to kill at least one of you. [/QUOTE] I realize that one or two soldiers would die, if it was just a squad. If there was a tank, it would be a different story. Same with an attack chopper, or if there was artillery inbound. [QUOTE] Banshees aren't supposed to be like fighter jets we dont really have a counter part to them because they are so strange, they play the role of an attack helicopter but hang around the battle rather than there to just provide support.[/QUOTE] Nothing a helicopter, with a good minigun couldn't handle. Also, if there was an AC-130 in the air, the Covenant would be screwed in so many ways.

i don't know if a banshee i would compare to a fighter i'd compare it to a flying motorcycle

[QUOTE=ChosenOne54;27265403] Nothing a helicopter, with a good minigun couldn't handle. Also, if there was an AC-130 in the air, the Covenant would be screwed in so many ways.[/QUOTE] No they wouldn't. The Seraphim would take out a plane like that with almost no effort, even then, they wouldn't need to send troops to engage, they could destroy the craft without entering the atmosphere. The Halo counterpart would be orbital stations and the giant attack ships, which were almost entirely useless for ground support due to the Covenant [i]absolutely dominating space warfare[/i]. As for the "heli wit minigun leet" argument, Banshees fly in huge formations and their pilots are extremely skillful. Their primary weapon is a weapon that slings plasma hot enough to turn steel to liquid and their anti-armor weapon is a giant, radioactive flaming ball of exploding plasma death. That's why, in the games, you see so many Pelicans fall victim to Banshee attacks. They're like flying velociraptors.