Why the tech of the Halo Universe is a step backward. - Games

[QUOTE=wraithcat;27400290]To put it simply - the strider is a horrible horrible and once more horrible design that while looking dangerous is a spindly ball of doom that would die all too quickly to anything with a brain.[/QUOTE] But the Strider looks epic! [editline]13th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=ChosenOne54;27398198]In the case of Valve, it's pretty funny. Valve pumps out free updates, amazing deals, and cheap content for so long, and as soon as they add a feature to get them a little bit of extra money (they are a company after all), everyone gets all butthurt, and starts hating on Valve. Just shows how spoiled people are.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but this actually effects gameplay. It takes me a month or two to get all the new items that some other player BOUGHT and received in a few seconds. TALK ABOUT UNFAIR!

[QUOTE=wraithcat;27400290]To put it simply - the strider is a horrible horrible and once more horrible design that while looking dangerous is a spindly ball of doom that would die all too quickly to anything with a brain.[/QUOTE] But the Scarab is even more of a horrible design. It moves VERY slowly, and is relatively easy to get in to and fuck up, considering its easy to enter bridge, and the bridge being incredibly easy to control or destroy (along with it being relatively unguarded inside and covered, beyond a couple Elites and a few Grunts). All it takes is a Strider to blow out the "knees" while dodging the single, slow-firing weapon and obliterating the cadre of soldiers on top of it.

[QUOTE=eatdembeanz;27403568]But the Scarab is even more of a horrible design. It moves VERY slowly, and is relatively easy to get in to and fuck up, considering its easy to enter bridge, and the bridge being incredibly easy to control or destroy (along with it being relatively unguarded inside and covered, beyond a couple Elites and a few Grunts). All it takes is a Strider to blow out the "knees" while dodging the single, slow-firing weapon and obliterating the cadre of soldiers on top of it.[/QUOTE] Keep in mind the way plasma works IRL(more in universe, non-game). If a Scarab marched in the middle of a city, it could easily destroy, if not utterly vaporize, major emplacements, and possibly even ground units. The reason they're not good for combat in any other sense, except for as mechanized siege engines or support, is because they were originally mining craft converted to exosuits by the Hunters.

I just have to say that I love this thread. Discussions about fictional technology and history fascinates me for some reason (must be why I love sci-fi and fantasy books), and the amount of stupid in this thread has been minimal. The amount of fanboy-ism has also been minimal, which is rare on the internet. I am a fan of the Halo games, but I lament the fact that they are so devoid of good story. The overarching story is there of course, but they could have done so much more. What they did in Reach was perfect, yet not enough. Loved the ending though, which is how I wish Halo 3 had ended. I am also one of those who love the books. They paint the Spartans in a somewhat more realistic light. John is also fleshed out more, making him more into a person than just a faceless grunt. I am sure people will argue with that, but he is more fleshed out. You sometimes have to read between the lines to see it, but it is there, and it all makes sense when you think about the whole "being trained to be a killing machine after being kidnapped at an age of 8" Keep on the good discussion guys! And yes, the Combine would most likely obliterate the Covenant in an all out war. But would they stand against them in space? What are the Combines resources there? As I said, I love learning about stuff like this.

What I'd like to see is a comic/book/game that focuses on the normal grassmowers, the UNSC Army and Marines. I can only imagine the UNSC vs Covenant ground engagement in open field, where UNSC brings everything they fucking got on the covies.

[QUOTE=CakeMaster7;27397893]Actually it is. No matter how "different" a company is, it's still working for money and nothing else. Notice Valve suddenly added nanotrasactions to TF2 even though they said before that they don't like that type of thing. Money is money, and that's the only motivation they need.[/QUOTE] I can't believe there are people this dumb. Money is indeed money. But art is also art. [editline]14th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Durandir;27405960]I just have to say that I love this thread. Discussions about fictional technology and history fascinates me for some reason (must be why I love sci-fi and fantasy books), and the amount of stupid in this thread has been minimal. The amount of fanboy-ism has also been minimal, which is rare on the internet. I am a fan of the Halo games, but I lament the fact that they are so devoid of good story. The overarching story is there of course, but they could have done so much more. What they did in Reach was perfect, yet not enough. Loved the ending though, which is how I wish Halo 3 had ended. I am also one of those who love the books. They paint the Spartans in a somewhat more realistic light. John is also fleshed out more, making him more into a person than just a faceless grunt. I am sure people will argue with that, but he is more fleshed out. You sometimes have to read between the lines to see it, but it is there, and it all makes sense when you think about the whole "being trained to be a killing machine after being kidnapped at an age of 8" Keep on the good discussion guys! And yes, the Combine would most likely obliterate the Covenant in an all out war. But would they stand against them in space? What are the Combines resources there? As I said, I love learning about stuff like this.[/QUOTE] Considering the Combine don't even appear to have space travel I'm beginning to think the whole multidimensional thing means one planet per universe. [editline]14th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Arachnidus;27403834]Keep in mind the way plasma works IRL(more in universe, non-game). If a Scarab marched in the middle of a city, it could easily destroy, if not utterly vaporize, major emplacements, and possibly even ground units. The reason they're not good for combat in any other sense, except for as mechanized siege engines or support, is because they were originally mining craft converted to exosuits by the Hunters.[/QUOTE] I don't know, they're big, armored, very inaccessible unless they are conveniently standing below a bridge and there is a Spartan/action hero up top... incredibly maneuverable. If they used actual tactics instead of prancing around that thing would probably decimate just about anything on the ground. But I can see why they'd prance around, because as is lamented when you first meet it in Halo 2, the thing is practically invulnerable.

[QUOTE=BmB;27406343] Considering the Combine don't even appear to have space travel I'm beginning to think the whole multidimensional thing means one planet per universe. [/QUOTE] You do realize that Half-life is set in world that is sometimes dictated by real-life theoretical physics. and in Real-life theoretical physics without the use of a wormhole or an intermediary dimension multi-million light year travel would take eons upon eons, The combine are a multidimensional empire that spans galaxies. Earth is just a new acquisition and in the eyes of the combine not that great of a priority. It's like when the British empire descended on small islands with tribal natives. More dubious Halo tech: -Dat energy sword man. Generating a constant stream of high-density, high-energy plasma [B]and[/B] keeping it formed in shape would take massive amounts of energy, not to mention to keep plasma formed you need massively strong magnetic fields. [B]BUT[/B] let's assume the little bar has what it takes to keep it powered and formed in the familiar sword shape, Whoever wields it is now the easiest target to hit, ever. Every single ferromagnetic object (that includes bullets) will be aattracted to you.

Considering that when you go to the future, things have been improved upon, I wouldn't consider Halo a step backwards, I would consider it wrong and I would consider it a game and fictional product. There is no argument over something that does not exist, or that we have not seen in our lifetimes, because we cannot actively study the variables.

[QUOTE=PunchedInFac;27406820]You do realize that Half-life is set in world that is sometimes dictated by real-life theoretical physics. and in Real-life theoretical physics without the use of a wormhole or an intermediary dimension multi-million light year travel would take eons upon eons, The combine are a multidimensional empire that spans galaxies. Earth is just a new acquisition and in the eyes of the combine not that great of a priority. It's like when the British empire descended on small islands with tribal natives. More dubious Halo tech: -Dat energy sword man. Generating a constant stream of high-density, high-energy plasma [B]and[/B] keeping it formed in shape would take massive amounts of energy, not to mention to keep plasma formed you need massively strong magnetic fields. [B]BUT[/B] let's assume the little bar has what it takes to keep it powered and formed in the familiar sword shape, Whoever wields it is now the easiest target to hit, ever. Every single ferromagnetic object (that includes bullets) will be aattracted to you.[/QUOTE] The "plasma" isn't actually plasma. It's Forerunner magic. The Forerunners were so advanced their tech is incomprehensible and essentially, impossible. Any sufficiently advanced etc. And Half-Life what try and get that dick out of your ear. The Combine don't seem to have space travel. They come from another universe entirely. I'm beginning to think they have conquered like one planet per universe they travelled to. It's only Black Mesa that developed the in-universe teleportation with the Xen relay.

[QUOTE=BmB;27406906]The "plasma" isn't actually plasma. It's Forerunner magic. The Forerunners were so advanced their tech is incomprehensible and essentially, impossible. Any sufficiently advanced etc. And Half-Life what try and get that dick out of your ear. The Combine don't seem to have space travel. They come from another universe entirely. I'm beginning to think they have conquered like one planet per universe they travelled to. It's only Black Mesa that developed the in-universe teleportation with the Xen relay.[/QUOTE] They [I]do[/I] have teleportation technology, only it is very inefficient, requires alot of energy (even by their standards), and is also highly unstable. Also the energy sword was created by the sangheili. not the forrunners.

It's still based on Forerunner tech. Also listen to mossman next time. Their teleport is big and clumsy, and [i]only works between universes.[/i]

Yeah, from what I remember about the Combine now it seems they only travel between dimensions. Which means they might be from an alternate Earth? Probably not. Hope all of that becomes more clear as the series goes on... in five to ten years. Also, we need a Halo/Half-Life cross-over. Imagine, Flood infected Striders. I am sure there is enough bio-material for the Flood to take it over. Or Flood infected Headcrab zombies :v:

They probably only use the big, clunky inter-dimensional teleporter for scouting parties and such, and have a fleet with light-speed travel for invasions for conquering planets more traditionally. I'm sure one of the hundred or so global populations they assimilated or eradicated had some sort of light-speed space travel which they could use in their ship design.

[QUOTE=BmB;27406343]I can't believe there are people this dumb. Money is indeed money. But art is also art. [/QUOTE] Are you implying that Halo is art? If you were talking about something like Half-Life, Mass Effect, or Bioshock, then yes, they are art. But Halo? [QUOTE] Considering the Combine don't even appear to have space travel I'm beginning to think the whole multidimensional thing means one planet per universe.[/QUOTE] Now that is just a wild assumption. Let's look at the story. According to Marc Laidlaw, the Combine kicked the Nihilanth and the Vorts out of their home dimension; no, they couldn't hide anywhere else in their galaxy, but they were actually kicked out of their DIMENSION, and forced to Xen. This would suggest that the Combine are pretty powerful, and far-reaching. Of course, we don't know for sure, but Earth is widely implied to be a tiny, unimportant planet in comparison to the Combine. This, again, would suggest that they are very large and powerful. Maybe some dimensions are small, with only one planet, but maybe others are as large as the one we are in. [QUOTE] I don't know, they're big, armored, very inaccessible unless they are conveniently standing below a bridge and there is a Spartan/action hero up top... incredibly maneuverable. If they used actual tactics instead of prancing around that thing would probably decimate just about anything on the ground. But I can see why they'd prance around, because as is lamented when you first meet it in Halo 2, the thing is practically invulnerable.[/QUOTE] Except... it would be toast to an airstrike, or a few missiles. Also, how hard would it be to land several choppers on the Scarab, and deploy troops to take out the generator?

[QUOTE=ChosenOne54;27408254]Are you implying that Halo is art? If you were talking about something like Half-Life, Mass Effect, or Bioshock, then yes, they are art. But Halo? [/QUOTE] Ok now you're just blind hating.

[QUOTE=P1X3L N1NJA;27408333]Ok now you're just blind hating.[/QUOTE] There's a difference between liking games such as Halo and Call of Duty and heralding them as steps forward in the genre. They are good insofar as what they do. But what they do is very little. I do not appreciate those who fail to differentiate between liking a game and believing they are significant steps forward when most of them are not. It sets terribly mundane standards in the industry and it forces true innovation - that which exists beyond the readily identifiable - to stagnate.

[QUOTE=ChosenOne54;27408344]There's a difference between liking games such as Halo and Call of Duty and heralding them as steps forward in the genre. They are good insofar as what they do. But what they do is very little. I do not appreciate those who fail to differentiate between liking a game and believing they are significant steps forward when most of them are not. It sets terribly mundane standards in the industry and it forces true innovation - that which exists beyond the readily identifiable - to stagnate.[/QUOTE] Lets go back to 2001 shall we, how many other FPS's were as good as Halo and how many had just as many features that worked as well as Halo. It set the standard of what an FPS needs to excel to gain popularity. Halo and the Xbox made console FPS's worth playing.

[QUOTE=P1X3L N1NJA;27408425]Lets go back to 2001 shall we, how many other FPS's were as good as Halo and how many had just as many features that worked as well as Halo. It set the standard of what an FPS needs to excel to gain popularity. Halo and the Xbox made console FPS's worth playing.[/QUOTE] Like I said earlier, the first Halo may have set the standard ON CONSOLES, but above that, they didn't do much. The story wasn't particularly deep, or though provoking. It may have been good for it's time, but not so much anymore. The combat is also pretty shallow. The Halo series has reached the point where there is nothing more to add, therefore the developers pump out the same monotonous crap, with better graphics. Look at Halo 3, and ODST.

[QUOTE=ChosenOne54;27408512]Like I said earlier, the first Halo may have set the standard ON CONSOLES, but above that, they didn't do much. The story wasn't particularly deep, or though provoking. It may have been good for it's time, but not so much anymore. The combat is also pretty shallow. The Halo series has reached the point where there is nothing more to add, therefore the developers pump out the same monotonous crap, with better graphics. Look at Halo 3, and ODST.[/QUOTE] Well I play Halo for the story so what you just said there is completely redundent to me.

[QUOTE=ChosenOne54;27408254]Are you implying that Halo is art? If you were talking about something like Half-Life, Mass Effect, or Bioshock, then yes, they are art. But Halo? Now that is just a wild assumption. Let's look at the story. According to Marc Laidlaw, the Combine kicked the Nihilanth and the Vorts out of their home dimension; no, they couldn't hide anywhere else in their galaxy, but they were actually kicked out of their DIMENSION, and forced to Xen. This would suggest that the Combine are pretty powerful, and far-reaching. Of course, we don't know for sure, but Earth is widely implied to be a tiny, unimportant planet in comparison to the Combine. This, again, would suggest that they are very large and powerful. Maybe some dimensions are small, with only one planet, but maybe others are as large as the one we are in. Except... it would be toast to an airstrike, or a few missiles. Also, how hard would it be to land several choppers on the Scarab, and deploy troops to take out the generator?[/QUOTE] A few of what kind of missiles exactly, ICBMS? You'd need a tank battalion to take one down with direct fire. If not more. The thing is it's nigh invulnerable. [editline]14th January 2011[/editline] And honestly. Halo set standards for all FPS's. Remember Halo 2 and recharging health? Yeah never seen that since. [editline]14th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=ChosenOne54;27408254]Now that is just a wild assumption. Let's look at the story. According to Marc Laidlaw, the Combine kicked the Nihilanth and the Vorts out of their home dimension; no, they couldn't hide anywhere else in their galaxy, but they were actually kicked out of their DIMENSION, and forced to Xen. This would suggest that the Combine are pretty powerful, and far-reaching. Of course, we don't know for sure, but Earth is widely implied to be a tiny, unimportant planet in comparison to the Combine. This, again, would suggest that they are very large and powerful. Maybe some dimensions are small, with only one planet, but maybe others are as large as the one we are in.[/QUOTE] What kind of assumption? There's nothing to indicate they have any kind of space travel at all. The Vorts could have been kicked out of a 5 sqkm island in the middle of an endless sea and still have been kicked out of the whole universe. Overwatch, the combined forces of earth are completely incapable of shooting down a rocket without a ground attack. Why would they be able to even travel inside a planetary system.

[QUOTE=BmB;27409675]A few of what kind of missiles exactly, ICBMS? You'd need a tank battalion to take one down with direct fire. If not more. The thing is it's nigh invulnerable. [/QUOTE] Unless they send soldiers to infiltrate it. Which really wouldn't be that hard. I'm no military expert, but I'm pretty sure they could take it down with, say, a predator missile. [QUOTE] And honestly. Halo set standards for all FPS's. Remember Halo 2 and recharging health? Yeah never seen that since. [/QUOTE] Regenerating health. What an amazing innovation :rolleyes: What else is there? Can you honestly deny that Halo has shallow, repetitive combat and level design? Halo is a fun multiplayer game, and it's campaign is nice for people who want to mindlessly shoot aliens. But it doesn't go much farther than that. The story is better than most, but still not very deep, or thought-provoking, especially compared to the likes of Half-Life. [QUOTE] What kind of assumption? There's nothing to indicate they have any kind of space travel at all. The Vorts could have been kicked out of a 5 sqkm island in the middle of an endless sea and still have been kicked out of the whole universe. Overwatch, the combined forces of earth are completely incapable of shooting down a rocket without a ground attack. Why would they be able to even travel inside a planetary system.[/QUOTE] I'd think, if an empire is capable of inter-dimensional travel, AND is capable of teleporting several hundred (at least) citadels in a short amount of time, they would have at least mastered basic space combat.

[QUOTE=ChosenOne54;27410398]Unless they send soldiers to infiltrate it. Which really wouldn't be that hard. I'm no military expert, but I'm pretty sure they could take it down with, say, a predator missile. [/QUOTE] Nope, predator missles aren't destructive as everyone seems to make out. Maybe a bunker buster but not a predator. Also a helicopter on the top is not an option as they have an anti aircraft gun on the top, you would have to take out that and the 2 side gunners if you want any chance of boarding otherwise it would be a blood bath. As stupid as it sounds a safer way would be to go under it and use a grappling hook and climb through the back.

[QUOTE=P1X3L N1NJA;27410515]Nope, predator missles aren't destructive as everyone seems to make out. Maybe a bunker buster but not a predator. Also a helicopter on the top is not an option as they have an anti aircraft gun on the top, you would have to take out that and the 2 side gunners if you want any chance of boarding otherwise it would be a blood bath. As stupid as it sounds a safer way would be to go under it and use a grappling hook and climb through the back.[/QUOTE] If there were 3 or 4 helicopters circling around, I'm sure one of them would be able to land. They could also send paratroopers, or use your idea of people boarding from the bottom. Also, let me quote the Halo wiki: [QUOTE] Mounted Anti-Aircraft Turrets (two in Halo 2, one in Halo 3) ... Could be shot off with little firepower. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ChosenOne54;27410546]If there were 3 or 4 helicopters circling around, I'm sure one of them would be able to land. They could also send paratroopers, or use your idea of people boarding from the bottom.[/QUOTE] I still dont think the lives of those men would be an acceptable loss. Paras would likely miss the LZ, they aren't the most accurate devices. Or that stupid core how exposed it is could be destroyed by an airburst weapon, like you fire a grenade and have it timed to explode when it ricochets of the wal infront of the core. The gear that armys use wouldnt be sufficent against the covenant but the tech that exists out there, would. You would just need to replace a lot of weapon systems in armys.

Honestly the Scarab, from a Mechanical as well as a practical use standpoint, is a horrible weapons platform. It's five stories tall and fucking [B][I][U]PURPLE[/U][/I][/B] you could spot and shell the thing from miles away and it can do little to stop you since all of it's weapons seem to be relatively short range, the armor is useless because it doesn't protect the components that keep the thing from seizing up falling over and exploding (a sabot round from a tank could probably blow one of the legs off at the joint or at least massively cripple the thing) and on speaking of which the reactor that powers the whole thing is [B]IN AN OPEN AIR COMPARTMENT, IN THE BACK, WHERE THE SCARAB ITSELF CANNOT EASILY COUNTER AN ATTACK FROM.[/B] oh[I][B][U] and[/U][/B][/I] the only shielding that protects the core from direct attacks from the rear can be shot off by handheld AT weapons. also the crew wouldn't be much help defending against borders if you were to shower the thing with lead and explosives before hand, anyone and anything on the outer hull would be turned to paste and scrap metal during the first salvo, you could basically walk onto the thing. It's gigantic walking deathtrap with glowing SHOOT ME HERE bits.

[QUOTE=P1X3L N1NJA;27410760]I still dont think the lives of those men would be an acceptable loss. Paras would likely miss the LZ, they aren't the most accurate devices. Or that stupid core how exposed it is could be destroyed by an airburst weapon, like you fire a grenade and have it timed to explode when it ricochets of the wal infront of the core. The gear that armys use wouldnt be sufficent against the covenant but the tech that exists out there, would. You would just need to replace a lot of weapon systems in armys.[/QUOTE] True. [QUOTE=goon165;27411141]Honestly the Scarab, from a Mechanical as well as a practical use standpoint, is a horrible weapons platform. It's five stories tall and fucking [B][I][U]PURPLE[/U][/I][/B] you could spot and shell the thing from miles away and it can do little to stop you since all of it's weapons seem to be relatively short range, the armor is useless because it doesn't protect the components that keep the thing from seizing up falling over and exploding (a sabot round from a tank could probably blow one of the legs off at the joint or at least massively cripple the thing) and on speaking of which the reactor that powers the whole thing is [B]IN AN OPEN AIR COMPARTMENT, IN THE BACK, WHERE THE SCARAB ITSELF CANNOT EASILY COUNTER AN ATTACK FROM.[/B] oh[I][B][U] and[/U][/B][/I] the only shielding that protects the core from direct attacks from the rear can be shot off by handheld AT weapons. also the crew wouldn't be much help defending against borders if you were to shower the thing with lead and explosives before hand, anyone and anything on the outer hull would be turned to paste and scrap metal during the first salvo, you could basically walk onto the thing. It's gigantic walking deathtrap with glowing SHOOT ME HERE bits.[/QUOTE] I lol'd :D

[QUOTE=goon165;27411141]Honestly the Scarab, from a Mechanical as well as a practical use standpoint, is a horrible weapons platform. It's five stories tall and fucking [B][I][U]PURPLE[/U][/I][/B] you could spot and shell the thing from miles away and it can do little to stop you since all of it's weapons seem to be relatively short range, the armor is useless because it doesn't protect the components that keep the thing from seizing up falling over and exploding (a sabot round from a tank could probably blow one of the legs off at the joint or at least massively cripple the thing) and on speaking of which the reactor that powers the whole thing is [B]IN AN OPEN AIR COMPARTMENT, IN THE BACK, WHERE THE SCARAB ITSELF CANNOT EASILY COUNTER AN ATTACK FROM.[/B] oh[I][B][U] and[/U][/B][/I] the only shielding that protects the core from direct attacks from the rear can be shot off by handheld AT weapons. also the crew wouldn't be much help defending against borders if you were to shower the thing with lead and explosives before hand, anyone and anything on the outer hull would be turned to paste and scrap metal during the first salvo, you could basically walk onto the thing. It's gigantic walking deathtrap with glowing SHOOT ME HERE bits.[/QUOTE] They're just about as retarded as the Star Wars AT-AT. The only use they have is intimidation.

One other thing that I've been pondering, why is the banshee considered so powerful? it has the same camouflage problem as the scarab and doesn't go all that fast and it ain't all that durable. a modern jet, if it had to get into dogfigting range (which I severely doubt it would need to because you could just fire missiles from light years away and hit it.) it would out class the thing, and even if it did one of those stupid flipy maneuvers the jet could just hit the burners (none of the banshee's weapons would hit it if it zoomed past at near the speed of sound, hell the jet wash and sonic boom might even crash the thing), get some distance, and come at it again. I'm starting to think that the only valid reasons the covenant are winning are is because one, "THEIR SPACESHIPS ARE BETTER" and even that argument isn't standing on solid ground. and two, the more likely scenario, the Covenant are propelled to victory by their mighty arsenal of Plot convenience and deus ex machina forerunner space magic.

I was Talking to my friend about this idea about who would win in a SUPER fight between Most of the Universes Described here. we both agreed that the War-hammer 40K universe would Win. Mainly due to the Sheer amount of Orcs. The Strength of the Marine coupled with the Tyrinnads would easily crush the others. What do you guys think?

[QUOTE=Daedulas;27411656]I was Talking to my friend about this idea about who would win in a SUPER fight between Most of the Universes Described here. we both agreed that the War-hammer 40K universe would Win. Mainly due to the Sheer amount of Orcs. The Strength of the Marine coupled with the Tyrinnads would easily crush the others. What do you guys think?[/QUOTE] Yeah, except for the fact the NONE OF THOSE FACTIONS HAVE OR EVER WILL WORK TOGETHER. Besides, I bet even the Kroot could turn the Covenant into tasty slices of alien-meat.