Why the tech of the Halo Universe is a step backward. - Games

Sorry if this is bumping an old thread, but the Covenant are pretty advanced. I could definitely see them winning against something like the Combine at least.

[QUOTE=Whatthecell;27781988]Sorry if this is bumping an old thread, but the Covenant are pretty advanced. I could definitely see them winning against something like the Combine at least.[/QUOTE] We settled this problem weeks ago. Thank you for your "very useful" first post.

[QUOTE=Whatthecell;27781988]Sorry if this is bumping an old thread, but the Covenant are pretty advanced. I could definitely see them winning against something like the Combine at least.[/QUOTE] I hope you aren't serious. I can't see the Covenant garnering anything close to a victory when going up against the Combine.

you are forgetting, the balance gods have arrived in full force in the Halo universe and nerfed everything to hell and back, (except Halo 1/ODST/Reach pistol.) Go play something broken, like Black Ops

[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;27783110]you are forgetting, the balance gods have arrived in full force in the Halo universe and nerfed everything to hell and back, (except Halo 1/ODST/Reach pistol.) Go play something broken, like Black Ops[/QUOTE] What's your point?

We have the ultimate advantage over the covenant. We're real.

I can't see the Combine doing much damage on the ground, and the Covenant totally rule space; they can glass planets, and have huge supercarriers.

To settle this argument. You fail to look at the big picture. Sure, the Covenant can glass planets. However, as is already known, the Combine reside in a completely different dimension, making a direct assault on the Combine Overworld virtually impossible for the Covenant. The Covenant can’t attack what they can’t reach. The Covenant, on the other hand, is completely open and vulnerable. Their leaders, the Prophets, reside on a floating city known as High Charity. Sure, it has strong defences, and energy shields. However, as has been seen, these could be easily bypassed, as the Flood slipped through, using a slipspace portal. We know that the Combine are capable of opening super-portals; it requires an immense amount of energy, as shown in Episode 2, but they are capable of doing so. To defeat the Covenant, the Combine must simply open a super portal close to High Charity, completely bypassing the defences, and then attack High Charity with full force. Once the portal has been opened, the Combine has a lot of options. They could teleport several thousand Citadels, and completely take over the ship, creating their own Covenant army, implanted with Combine technology. They could simply flood the place with Striders. Or, they could bombard the place with several thousand headcrab canisters, and watch the city tear itself apart. The Covenant could do very little in response to this, as the chaos erupting would be massive, and they would be unable to directly attack the Combine Overworld themselves. Taking over/destroying High Charity would be a major blow on the Covenant’s morale, and also a tactical victory. After this, it wouldn’t be that difficult to finish off the Covenant, unless the Covenant were to go into hiding or something. I think this, alone, grants the Combine an easy victory. Now Let's compare the troops. Combine: The Overwatch, Combine soldiers. Covenant: Grunts, Jackals. Well in terms of cannon fodder, Ill give it to the Combine, the Overwatch & Soldiers are well-balanced enemies that can endure more punishment and dish out a lot more damage then your standard Grunt/jackal Unit. Snipers Combine: Combine sniper Covenant: Jackal sniper It goes to the Covenant here, the Jackal sniper is an absolute deadly shot, a one hit kill with near flawless aim, plus he isn’t confined to those little room that the Combine Sniper hide in. It could go either way, I’ll admit, depending on circumstance. Elite units Combine: Combine elite Covenant: The elites, the brutes As far as the best of the best go, its the covenant again, pit any Combine elite against a brute or Elite any day and unfortunately the covenant will win, they are lager, faster and stronger then any human, and boast personnel energy shields, stealth cloaks and insanely powerful close range weapons (sword, hammer). A squad of Combine elites could probably take out a Brute or Elite, but alone, they lose. However, when pitting a Combine Hunter against an Elite or Brute, it goes to the Hunters. Sure, Elites have strong armour and powerful weapons, but the Hunter’s armor is tougher, able to withstand multiple grenades, and even RPGs. Also, flechettes are nasty, and could deal serious damage. HUNTER Combine: Combine Hunter Covenant: Covenant Hunter In terms of pure strength, the Covenant Hunter takes the cake. However, the Covie Hunter is VERY slow, and not very agile at all. It's fuel rod cannon is powerful, though not that hard to dodge. Combine Hunters are big and strong, yet also very agile. A few well placed flechettes to the back of the Covie Hunter, and the Covie Hunter is dead. I will admit it could go either way, depending on circumstance. Tank Combine: Strider Covenant: Wraith As much as I like the Wraith, the strider is the clear winner here: agile, intimidating, durable, and its main gun could rip clear through a wraith before its mortar cannon could even begin to take aim. Dropships Combine: Dropship Covenant: Phantom Well, this is really pointless as both are indestructible in game, and they both serve the same purpose. The Combine Dropship may take this for pure maneuverability though. Air support Combine: Gunship, Hunter Chopper Covenant: Banshee The Combine take the cake, the Gunship is more durable, and invulnerable to gunfire, taking multiple RPGs to shoot down. The Hunter Chopper really wins this for the Combine though, with it’s pulse cannon, ability to drop more bombs than it should be able to carry, and ability to launch guided missiles. Troop support Combine: Overwatch APC Covenant: Spectre, prowler, shadow, chopper, ghost The Combine APC is pretty effective, but the Covenant takes this section for diversity, if nothing else. Heavy Assault platforms Combine: Strider Covenant: Scarab If it were a single Strider against a Scarab, the strider would be toast. However, the strider, again, is much faster and more maneuverable than the Scarab. 2 or 3 well-coordinated striders could quickly surround the Scarab, blow off the legs one by one with their warp cannons, and close in for the kill. And really, how hard would it be for the Combine to land a Dropship on the Scarab’s conveniently places landing platform, and deploy troops to take out the generator? I know the Scarab has an anti-air gun, but that could be easily destroyed. If there were 2 or 3 dropships, they could easily land and take out the scarab. And then there are Advisors, who could seriously disorient Covenant forces. The Covenant may edge out the Combine slightly in a ground battle, but this isn’t taking into account the off-world units of the Combine we haven’t seen yet. The Combine ground forces as we have seen are quite strong compared to the Covenant. This proves the Combine are advanced when it come to technology. And now the weapons. Melee Combine: Stun Baton Covenant: Energy Sword, Gravity Hammer Okay, I don’t think this one is all too hard to work out. When it comes to melee weapons, I would think the Covenant have a definite advantage. A glowing sword that can kill spartans in one slice, and a hammer that can send jeeps hurtling through the air. I’d say the Covenant take the cake in terms of melee weapons. Although the melee attacks on Combine Hunters (the swipes and bull-like charging) have proven to be lethal to a HEV-clad human. Close-Quarters Combine: SPAS-12 (Combine Convert) Covenant: Mauler I would say it could go either way here. The Combine convert of the SPAS-12 appears be more accurate than your standard shotgun. The pellets spread far less than one would expect. It also packs a massiv punch at close range (It is a shotgun, after all) The Mauler is only really effective in absolute close-quarters, it’s range seems to drop very fast the further away the target is. It does sport a large blade should the target get in the face of the user. It’s rather pants for those trying to sneak around, as the weapon glows orange. I’d say the Combine have the advantage here. Small-Arms Combine: Glock 17, .357 Magnum (Combine Coverts | Although .357 never directly used by Combine, it is found in their storage areas) Covenant: Plasma Pistol The Combine coverts of the Glock and the .357 have more penetration power than the Plasma Pistol (it doesn’t penetrate, after all) and the .357 has a massive kick to it. The Plasma Pistol, can however, disable shielding and the drive-mechanisms of vehicles. The excelling weapon would depend on the situation, I’d say. Automatics Combine: MP7 PDW (Combine Covert), Overwatch Standard Issue Covenant: Plasma Rifle, Spiker The Combine have the definite advantage if the Standard Issue Pulse Rifle is being used. It’s a Combine Weapon based on the firearms used on earth. It’s ammunition seems to be related to dark energy in some way or another, immediately making it more advanced than the Covenant Plasma weaponry. It can also vaporise living organisms with it’s energy-orb alt-fire. If the MP7 is being used, the Covenant would have the advantage. Whilst the MP7 has more penetration power than the Plasma Rifle, the Spiker fires well.. spikes. The MP7 also lacks necessary stopping power. Snipers Combine: Sniper rifle (never aquired by player) Covenant: Beam Rifle (and to a degree, the Carbine) This is a difficult one. The Sniper Rifle of the Combine appears to be high powered, evident by the fact that it can kill just about any organic target in one shot (save HEV-clad humans). As the player never gets to use it, it’s difficult to say if this is down to the rifles power, or the sniper’s incredible aim. The Beam Rifle is a powerful plasma sniper rifle. It can take out most targets with a single shot, depending on the aim of the sniper. It would undoubtably take out Overwatch soldiers with one shot. Heavy Weapons Combine: RPG, Pulse Rifle Turret Covenant: Fuel Rod, Plasma Cannon Another tough one. The RPG is known to be powerful, however so is the Fuel Rod. The RPG has a laser-guided tracking system which can be used to hit the weak spots of targets. The Fuel Rod fires in arcs. The Fuel Rod has the advantage of larger ammo capacity, and may be more powerful in given situations. The Pulse Rifle Turret is effectively a Standard Issue on a post, lacking the alt-fire. The Plasma cannon is like a giant Plasma rifle. The comparison between the PR and the OSI should be taken into consideration here, but on a larger scale. The user of the Pulse Rifle Turret often has greater protection, due to the shielding around the base. Grenades Combine: Frag Covenant: Plasma, Spike The Combine Frag is comparable to the frag from the halo games, but has one meaningless addition. It has a red light on top of it. Making all 3 of the grenades in the comparison glow a different colour. The Combine Frag has greater explosive power I would think, whereas the Covenant grenades stick to things, which is a great advantage. Again proving that the Combine are no pushovers when it comes to technology. And this isn't even including the off-world units we don't know about. I think the Combine just won.

Most of the arguments provided by the OP are absolutely laughable, not showing any sing of calculations, or even basic scientific knowledge. I should assert that an Elite(in the novels) will easily tear apart an entire squad of marines, in the open. Even Brutes can withstand prolonged exposure(multiple seconds) to over twenty surces of automatic sustained 7.62 fire. The shields carried by Covenant infantry have been calculated(in multiple separate, or related incidents) to be a multiple megajoules affair(2-4 being the most common), with the absolute interpretable low end being around 100 kilojoules(some higher feats can be interpretted as multiple gigajoule affairs, although these are obviously flawed). These shields can recharge in ten seconds or so. Factor in that many Covenant infantry forces can be invisible(or nearly so), and are extremely mobile(using entirely air based deployments). Then we get into vehicular considerations, humans have no observed vehicle that can hope to compare to a Scarab. Even our heaviest tanks are vulnerable to a reasonable quantity of anti-armour fire, where as Covenant super heavy vehicles are not(game mechanics not withstanding). The proliferation of explosive ammunition types amongst Covenant forces is also greater, ignoring the 400 rounds a minute plasma rifle(each shot from which can inflict second or third degree burns on humans via proximity alone), and single Needler rounds that can blow people apart(with multiples being exponentially more powerful) we have the fuel rod gun(an anti-armour rocket launcher, which the recent anime seems to indicate causes a wide area of vaporisation at the impact point(although I’m loathe to use the anime as evidence, other depictions are difficult to come by)), which Grunts seem to carry in high concentrations, can be fired rapidly(five rounds to a clip, and a round can be fired every two seconds or so), and tracks individual targets(with no apparent lock on mechanism). The Wraith’s main mortar causes damage to all heavy armour within eight metres(through simple heat). The Scarab’s main gun has been calculated at 9.5 gigajoules as a low end(45 is the upper limit). That's not bringing up the fact that the Covenant in space are totally batty in terms of raw power, and most of the calculations that can be done come to multiple gigatons of TNT equivalent per Plasma Torpedo, some even reach into the teratons. As in, a single Covenant ship is a global extinction event, if it decides it doesn’t like Earth. By the very highest interpretations, a single Covenant ship can wipe out all complex life on Earth in minutes(although the actual effect would probably take hours to spread fully). Even the very lowest interpretations result in double digit megatons per Plasma Torpedo. To put that in scale, an atomic bomb doesn't reach double digit megatons.

Good job bumping it hero

[QUOTE=Scar;28325238]Good job bumping it hero[/QUOTE] Oh, so you have absolutely no counter-arguments to refute my points? Good to know.

[QUOTE=ChosenOne54;27784441] holy fuck tonne of wall o-text.[/QUOTE] You're just comparing weapons and solder specs. If it was an all out war between the combine and covenant the combine are going to lose, because despite what you think that combine are basically humans converted into combine, I'm also going to edge a bet that combine may have space-capable weaponry/vehicles but you'd think they'd start attempting to build them during the many years they've been on earth, so even if the combine were to overwhelm a large covenant defence grid they're still going to be overwhelmed by sephras, AA batteries, covenant glassing capabilities and corvette's air to ground plasma cannons which would rip anything in their path apart. Including the citadel.

[QUOTE=TheScienceGuy;28325295]Oh, so you have absolutely no counter-arguments to refute my points? Good to know.[/QUOTE] You registered here to post in a three-week-old dead thread with an argument that cites no sources whatsoever besides 'the novels' (how specific). way to go

[QUOTE=the_killer24;28325647]You registered here to post in a three-week-old dead thread with an argument that cites no sources whatsoever besides 'the novels' (how specific). way to go[/QUOTE] Calculations.

best argument 2011 would argue again

So you still have no counter-argument. Ah, well I have to thank you for giving me a glimpse of the intelligence level of this forum.

[QUOTE=TheScienceGuy;28325899]So you still have no counter-argument. Ah, well I have to thank you for giving me a glimpse of the intelligence level of this forum.[/QUOTE] Well it dropped significantly when you joined

[QUOTE=Scar;28325932]Well it dropped significantly when you joined[/QUOTE] You wound me sir. Seeing as YOU are a fairly experienced member on Facepunch, I daresay the average intelligence level could not have dropped much further than it did when you joined.

[QUOTE=TheScienceGuy;28325973]You wound me sir. Seeing as YOU are a fairly experienced member on Facepunch, I daresay the average intelligence level could not have dropped much further than it did when you joined.[/QUOTE] Please, stop.

[QUOTE=Arachnidus;28326021]Please, stop.[/QUOTE] This.

Not one of you has replied to my argument, so at this point I will declare myself correct, and the OP of this thread wrong, and entirely clueless.

[QUOTE=TheScienceGuy;28325670]Calculations.[/QUOTE] Calculations on videogames? You're taking this too seriously. [editline]27th February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=TheScienceGuy;28326172]Not one of you has replied to my argument, so at this point I will declare myself correct, and the OP of this thread wrong, and entirely clueless.[/QUOTE] What an ego.

[QUOTE=gbtygfvyg;28326270]Calculations on videogames? You're taking this too seriously. [/QUOTE] Don't make me laugh, you fool. [QUOTE] What an ego.[/QUOTE] Are you dense? Nobody has replied, therefore my argument is undisputed.

alright, then provide us with explicitly cited sources in which covenant weaponry equals or outranges their IRL counterparts actually just provide us with an example of a covenant MBT

[QUOTE=TheScienceGuy;28326325]Don't make me laugh, you fool. Are you dense? Nobody has replied, therefore my argument is undisputed.[/QUOTE] You're begging the question.

That's what Hitler would say.

[QUOTE=the_killer24;28326583]alright, then provide us with explicitly cited sources in which covenant weaponry equals or outranges their IRL counterparts actually just provide us with an example of a covenant MBT[/QUOTE] I suggest you consult the Halo Wiki. [url]http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Type-25_Directed_Energy_Rifle[/url] [url]http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Type-33_Guided_Munitions_Launcher[/url] [url]http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Type-47_Ultra_Heavy_Assault_Platform[/url]

are you seriously saying that the plasma rifle and needler outrange the average irl assault rifle [editline]27th February 2011[/editline] even your vaunted halo wiki says that the needler's range is 64m and the pr's range is 50m while irl soldiers engage at 300m all the time

He's fucking insane man.

scarab ain't a main battle tank bro [editline]27th February 2011[/editline] and real tanks, vastly more armed, armored, and faster than the scorpion (which can kill scarabs) imagine what they would do