Of course you can't carry as support. But what you can do is assist your team greatly with ward coverage all over the map, keeping track of objectives like baron and dragon, and to some extent give them some guidance. I know you could argue a good team doesn't need guidance but as a support you are able to focus better on what is happening around the map and how the pace of the match is going.
A good support can really make the difference. I can understand wanting to carry and win but really the support role is so underestimated and people just don't know how much the team relies on one. In a game where everyone is doing okay but nothing shit stomping, you NEED a support.
erm i know i probably went a little out of context but it drives me nuts when people say "hurrdurr don't support unless you want to lose". If you have a bad team, you have a bad team. don't matter if you are supporting or not.
[QUOTE=booster;38110025]AD Carry bot solo ranked never works out for me.[/QUOTE]
If you're in need of a win and you're soloQing, go as either top or jungle as a tanky engager. It's the only way you can force your team to engage when you want them to without any communication. On top of that, the engager dictates teamfights.
[QUOTE=KillaGunna24;38110176]Of course you can't carry as support. But what you can do is assist your team greatly with ward coverage all over the map, keeping track of objectives like baron and dragon, and to some extent give them some guidance. I know you could argue a good team doesn't need guidance but as a support you are able to focus better on what is happening around the map and how the pace of the match is going.
A good support can really make the difference. I can understand wanting to carry and win but really the support role is so underestimated and people just don't know how much the team relies on one. In a game where everyone is doing okay but nothing shit stomping, you NEED a support.
erm i know i probably went a little out of context but it drives me nuts when people say "hurrdurr don't support unless you want to lose". If you have a bad team, you have a bad team. don't matter if you are supporting or not.[/QUOTE]
I think some people are just really bad at supports in this thread. I mean one of ashxu's arguments against soraka as a support is that she had lower heals per second, somehow oblivious to the fact that a burst heal with lower heal/sec (that adds a massive armor buff no less) is going to save people way more often in an actual engagement than a low health/low cooldown healing spell :v:
Really good ward placement can seriously save a game, can't count how many traps and horrible throws have been avoided using them. That and some supports have some game-saving abilities like sona and soraka in their own different way.
[QUOTE=venn178;38110183]If you're in need of a win and you're soloQing, go as either top or jungle as a tanky engager. It's the only way you can force your team to engage when you want them to without any communication. On top of that, the engager dictates teamfights.[/QUOTE]
Well, that's how it should be - but in one of the games I played previously miss fortune apparently thought she could face tank their whole team :suicide:
[QUOTE=Elspin;38110227]I think some people are just really bad at supports in this thread. I mean one of ashxu's arguments against soraka as a support is that she had lower heals per second, somehow oblivious to the fact that a burst heal with lower heal/sec (that adds a massive armor buff no less) is going to save people way more often in an actual engagement than a low health/low cooldown healing spell :v:[/QUOTE]
wow way to nitpick. The armor buff only lasts for 3 seconds and is by no means a peel. Soraka isn't trash tier but she doesn't offer as much as other Supports.
By the way, what level are you?
and besides, speak for your fucking self. I used to main Support.
[img]http://i46.tinypic.com/35ipppe.png[/img]
[QUOTE=piggycan99;38109849]ive played support twice, dont play it if you wanna win, dont rely on your team to carry.
an exactly what ashxu said you cant carry as support. i always jungle or top.
[editline]20th October 2012[/editline]
youve played plenty league with us, stupideye is the best singed i know. Talk to him if you are gonna start playing him[/QUOTE]
i didnt want to start playing singed i just saw spellblade on a solomid singed guide and wondered what fp's thoughts where on it
I think of supports as the mother that carries his/her ADC to lategame, and by then they would have a BT and heal 150 per hit so they arent needed except for dat CC
[QUOTE=DarkZero135;38110333]i didnt want to start playing singed i just saw spellblade on a solomid singed guide and wondered what fp's thoughts where on it[/QUOTE]
merc treads better
imo getting AP items on singed should always come with another benefit (like spellvamp, mr, or deathcap massive boost, etc)
[editline]20th October 2012[/editline]
tenacity is ok with ap, but spellblade kind of wastes an item slot
I normally run Merc Treads, RoA, Abyssal Scepter and then tanky items like FoN, GA, Maybe a shurelias or somethin
Rylai's is a good choice but I remember reading in a guide that if the enemy is being slowed by your poison then they're less likely to chase you through it, which is a valid point. It's great for chasing them, but as singed you want them to chase you as well
[QUOTE=kidkiller745;38110344]I think of supports as the mother that carries his/her ADC to lategame, and by then they would have a BT and heal 150 per hit so they arent needed except for dat CC[/QUOTE]
I feel like this is the problem with supports, and why so many people hate playing them. Supports shouldn't just be seen as babysitters, they should be seen as "battlefield commanders." Support champions should be every bit as useful and important to the team as the tank and ADC, and every bit as capable of carrying the team--if not through damage and durability, then through powerful abilities whose intelligent use can dictate the way your team behaves and interacts with objectives in dramatic ways.
A support cannot carry a team. I don't care if a Sona is 10/0/50, with a full item build at 20 minutes, she still can't carry a game. That's why the AD and AP CARRIES are called CARRIES, because [I]they're[/I] built to CARRY the team.
[QUOTE=venn178;38110580]A support cannot carry a team. I don't care if a Sona is 10/0/50, with a full item build at 20 minutes, she still can't carry a game. That's why the AD and AP CARRIES are called CARRIES, because [I]they're[/I] built to CARRY the team.[/QUOTE]
You misunderstand. I'm not saying supports should be damage dealing monsters, I'm saying their abilities should be useful enough to make up for the fact that they aren't. Supports shouldn't be these ineffective ponsies, they should be powerful tacticians. A "brains not brawn" approach that can indirectly carry through intelligent gameplay. Some do, or did, a pretty good job of this. Janna was one of the best examples, because her abilities allowed you to effect teamfights in really dramatic ways, even without doing damage. She wasn't just a a babysitter, she was dangerous for her ability to isolate important targets and scatter teams. We need more supports like that.
I definitely agree with you there. You just made it seem like a good support can make a bad team good, and it can't. If you have one person on your team who's god-tier incredible, you don't want it to be your support.
[editline]20th October 2012[/editline]
I miss playing games with you BDA </3 (again)
Meh
having a good Support makes the game easier but most of the time it's fine if you put the worst player on Support and just make them ward and try not to feed or screw up the ADC.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;38110613]You misunderstand. I'm not saying supports should be damage dealing monsters, I'm saying their abilities should be useful enough to make up for the fact that they aren't. Supports shouldn't be these inneffective ponsies, they should be powerful tacticion sort of champions. A "brains not brawn" approach that can indirectly carry through intelligent gameplay. Some do, or did, a pretty good job of this. Janna was one of the best-known her abilities allowed you to effect teamfights in really dramatic ways, even without doing damage. She wasn't just a a babysitter, she was dangerous. We need more supports like that.[/QUOTE]
a support as you described can never exist really in league simply because of the fact that everything scales with items in league
I opened this game from steam and i got a message from someone, it was like
omg
lmao
unfriended
and then they did :pwn:
It's lame because it doesn't even work with the overlay >:(
you can have cc and displacement, but they dwindle in usefulness as people get tankier and tenacity, and CC generally not as powerful as damage, since CC lasts for a very short time
wot
the CC powerhouse Supports are relevant throughout the whole game. Leona, Alistar, Janna, Lulu, Sona etc.
CC doesn't have to last for 5 seconds to be relevant late. Not to mention Alistar and Lulu have knockups and Janna has a knock back and they all aren't affected by Tenacity.
Sorry for weird spelling and stuff. I'm on my phone, and I can't type for shit on its dumb touch screen. And it keeps autocorrecting to things I didn't want to say! Yes, I'm aware "'cept" isn't a real word, but it's what I wanted to say, so quit friggen changing it to sabre!
but they honestly don't make much of a difference come lategame where they just get two shotted by anyone
CC is nice and all, but without damage to go with it, an enemy team can easily counter-initiate a fight that a support tries to start (see clg.eu)
Well that's kinda why the carries follow up on the initiate with damage.
It doesn't even have to be a 5v5 brawl. Even catching someone out is enough.
i was 18/8 as orianna and our shaco had 15 cs 55 mins in with 3 ap items, ez only had a ie,bt and pd at 55 mins and was 1/12
i hate games like that
in the lategame, after a support blows its cooldowns, it feels underwhelming simply because in the end how much have you accomplished?
it's almost impossible to get in range of the AD carry
CC'ing a tanky dps is pretty useless
AP carry: see AD carry
CC'ing a support is... well... nice?
more than anything support lategame just feels underwhelming
Alternatively, you've stunned their entire team with a Crescendo, you've beefed up your tank and he's slowing everyone about him for the duration.
Support can be rewarding, it just needs good teammates and those are in short supply.
gah i don't know what im trying to say
i'll come back to this once i gather my thoughts and have some dumplings
Assuming the carries are perfect, you can just peel the bruisers off your carries. But the enemy will have to get close otherwise they're just wasting cooldowns and time on your front line. Besides, Flash exists and Alistar/Leona have methods to gap close.
i only really play support when im queueing with a full 5 man group on mumble or something, it just makes it so much easier to tell who i cc'd etc etc
[QUOTE=Flubadoo;38110820]gah i don't know what im trying to say
i'll come back to this once i gather my thoughts and have some dumplings[/QUOTE]
Alistar is an endgame beast because of how much displace and fuck-shit-up he has. Same with Leona. The tankier supports are generally the ones that are still fun endgame.
[QUOTE=Big Ben;38107818]TFs new run animation is shit.
Anyone who disagrees has never actually seen a real person run in their entire lives.[/QUOTE]
his old one was just as bad if not worse, especially with some of the skins
[editline]20th October 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=DTkach;38108448]TF feels like he was nerfed somehow.
I know this isn't the case but since the new animations/model he doesn't feel as effective to me, I dunno.[/QUOTE]
i went 18/1 the first game i played as new tf so other way around for me
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