David Prassel, creator of ORION, gets 20k in donations and fires everyone. - Games

FP ujelly? He got the bitches, he got the money. He got it all.

[QUOTE=Hotespresso;28626857]FP ujelly? He got the bitches, he got the money. He got it all.[/QUOTE] Alas, the means he used to come to that end, in layman's terms... made him look like a dick.

A word from a former Orion dev: [quote="Ezekel"][quote="TicTac"]I'm with you Discordia 100%. These internet white knights are pissing me off and the ModDB discussion is the worst. Everyone keeps posting how David is an ass and there not even paying attention to SGS's side of the story. I still don't get why these supposed adults have to drag everything into the public were any idiot can read it and misunderstand it instead of dealing with there own issues privately. [/quote] it's cos: people always support the underdog (it's human nature), and well "slighted, underpaid artist" vs "corporate company" - knee jerk reaction is to side with the little guy. part of the problem is that well praz tries too hard to market spiral as a big guy. hi all, I'm Ezekel. you guys may not know me, but I'm the guy who did incursion, geode and reactor in orion source, and also the guy who came up with the lockdown mechanic. before you knee-jerk, this isn't a hate post or an angst post. just wanted to get that out in the open from the start. i don't particularly like praz myself, but i don't outright hate him. we still chat on occasion about the development and stuff despite my having left orion quite a while back now. - what can i say it's in my nature to be a "nice guy". i'd rather be amiable, besides i still respect him, and i believe he respects me too in return. i respect him for never giving up, and for the amount of hardwork he DOES do. although he's not a great mapper or a great modeller, he definetly has skills with people, skills that many mappers or modellers or artists often wish they had (myself included). i don't think i've ever met another person able to almost aproach a spamming-level of media blitzing and yet still remain relatively liked by the communities he releases media upon. but as i've posted elsewhere, he's not perfect. I do worry for the hard work people have produced for him, myself included. and i have mixed feelings over the donation drive of the kickstarter thing - it was definitely an innovative (and ballsy) move, but i'm not sure about the ethical-ness of it yet. as far as i can tell, most of the people who've now left or been removed from orion are primarily concerned over recognition (and to an extent control) of their work (oh i won't lie, funding would be super cool, some of us after all are pennyless artists when you come down to it). I realise there's no I in team and that if you whilst part of a team contribute and then demand it be later removed you are actually hurting the entire team severely. However, there's a fair point here being made. - of course digital medium is still pretty young in terms of things, it's hardly like a person making a pair of shoes or a hammer, and so digital ownership is still a loosely defined term. (heck look at windows OS, you don't own or have rights to the software, you own a license to use it within the confines that microsoft lay out. like it or lump it). but let's ignore that side track right now, the point being made is that people have devoted time and effort into something that was praz's dream. to use a phrase i've been using a lot lately: "credit where credit is due" there's been quite a bit of knee jerking on both sides i feel. but (with the exception of javid - whom i still need to dig up more details about the situation of before i can make a decision on) i think an equitable solution can be reached, provided people sit down and discuss things out. for the most part people are interested in recognition. and that probably means more than a footnote in the credits. there's been a lot of bad blood going on - i really dislike bad blood between people, so can we try to sort this out, on a one guy + another guy basis rather than on a corporation vs one guy basis? praz, this next part is to you personally: you can be very impulsive and hotheaded sometimes. take a breather, get your thoughts sorted out and extend a laurel. the more you and your bro release corporate style messages the more you're gonna appear to be validating things in the eyes of the internet public. (i.e. big meanie corporate company oppressing the poor pennyless artist) i'd suggest considering not responding to all the fires about the place - let them simmer and settle down. that's the way of the world. next, i don't know how you do things these days on the team, but i hope it's more open and easy to communicate across the team. there were troubles in the mod days because people got mixed messages or because everyone had to go through you. - which is even worse now cos you're that much more busy these days. one thing i'll suggest to you that i've said before: you need to delegate. don't try to be mr do-everthing. you have sound guys for sound, you have mappers for environmental art, you have script writers and creative writers for lore and scripts. finally: get a dedicated PR guy, and make sure they're up to snuff with the written word. no offense but your media releases could be improved. edit: also you really need to work on improving your public image. you're not an evil guy or a tyrant, but ... well you need to chill a lil i'd say, and work on thinking before you act. work on tempering the impulsive side of you. to everyone else: i know you feel sad/mad/angry on both sides, but you're all just fans (i.e. fanatics), the whole story is not known. I know praz well enough to say that what i've been hearing likely has more grains of truth than simply "they worked for me on orion, that's all", but considering that i know how he feels about orion, it's probably explanable that he knee-jerked. he can jump on people/issues pretty quick the moment he sees something not quite meeting what he expects (and his standards are predictably VERY high for people working on his baby), and that's probably been exacerbated now he has a real deadline to meet. however, on both sides, i suggest you all stop and think about the crisis in japan right now. they need your attention a lot more i'd say, and it's definetly something much more worthy to feel sad about. the reason i'm writing this? well heck i put a bit of myself into my work when i create stuff. incursion means a lot to me, as does reactor (and geode, but geode is kinda like the ugly kid ... i DID learn how not to do cave asthetics from the experience though, and you should see the caves i did more recently in Tears for Tarnor. i was able to do that thanks in part to working on orion).[/quote]

WOW, Prassel just deleted the moddb page: [quote]The game you are trying to view has been deleted and is no longer available. This may have occured at the developers request because it is no longer active and was not released, or it may have occured because it violated the sites Terms of Use. If this is a mistake and you are a member of this games team and would like it re-activated, please contact us with the details. If you would like to view other game profiles, we suggest you browse the entire game list.[/quote] [url]http://www.moddb.com/games/orion-prelude/[/url]

oh man it's getting super suspicious now

[QUOTE=Penis Colada;28630500]WOW, Prassel just deleted the moddb page: [url]http://www.moddb.com/games/orion-prelude/[/url][/QUOTE] Wow, didn't expect that at all.

His looks are ok, and I admit, he looks much better than me. Also kinda reminds me of mysteryguitarman, but I guess that's because of shades. If that looks douchey to you, then who doesn't? Nerd faces?

Wow, he can't take the pressure, it seems.

It would be hilarious and tragic if it turned out Orion went from being a mod into a gigantic scam that benefited only Prassel. It makes sense if you consider the whole "donations" thing; Prassel realizes he can get a lot more money fast scamming people via "donations" instead of actually selling the game, so he does that and gets rid of the developers as soon as the gets the amount of money he wants so that he keeps it for himself.

That's really quite of a pussy move on his part, but whatever. It makes me judgmental of his ability to handle things like this and truly defend his "truth." I guess he does have to look out for the public image of his company - and god knows 60%+ of the ModDb comments were more negative than supportive. Regardless, the fact still remains that he certainly could have handled this better before it even got to this point. I do wish him luck and don't think of him as some sort of villain (just a douche bag,) but he'd best check that damn ego of his at the door and stop acting like his game is the greatest indie phenomenon of the decade... and quit with his poorly done media blitzkriegs. Nothing irks me more than when people think there shit smells like freshly baked cinnamon buns when they aren't fooling anybody.

I had a short talk with David today. All I can say is, as a developer, give David a chance. From the looks of things, his team fell apart into a sort of civil war as soon as the money started rolling in. It also doesn't help that quite a few of the people affected by this are less-than-trustworthy. I'm not saying trust him or that he's a nice guy, I'm just saying wait and see before you come to any further conclusions. This battle may have quite a few twists in the coming weeks. This looks more like a good mod team gone bad indie team than a moral issue with their leadership.

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;28633038]I had a short talk with David today. All I can say is, as a developer, give David a chance. From the looks of things, his team fell apart into a sort of civil war as soon as the money started rolling in. It also doesn't help that quite a few of the people affected by this are less-than-trustworthy. I'm not saying trust him or that he's a nice guy, I'm just saying wait and see before you come to any further conclusions. This battle may have quite a few twists in the coming weeks. This looks more like a good mod team gone bad indie team than a moral issue with their leadership.[/QUOTE] He still doesn't have the right to get money he doesn't deserve. He could at least share the profits, but noo, he was all like [i]OMG I have 20k kaching, I will keep them only for myself.[/i]

[QUOTE=D3N1ZFTW;28633133]He still doesn't have the right to get money he doesn't deserve. He could at least share the profits, but noo, he was all like [i]OMG I have 20k kaching, I will keep them only for myself.[/i][/QUOTE] I doubt it's that simple, I mean it could be for all we know but as 1/4 Life said, we should just wait and see what happens.

There is a lesson to be learned here.

[QUOTE=JLea;28634438]There is a lesson to be learned here.[/QUOTE] Always sign a contract and have one of the conditions state that if money is involved, it has to be shared?

The second they even considered asking for money they should have drawn up contracts that laid out who would get what and when, and what work would be expected of them.

I think it was a good idea closing down the indiedb/moddb pages and herding people over to the official forums if they want to ask questions or hate on the SGS team. I mean it is a lot easier to delete and or modify comments and mask potential fallout from this affair if you do it from a venue that you have total control over /sarcasm

Paying developers is too mainstream.

[QUOTE=JLea;28634438]There is a lesson to be learned here.[/QUOTE] I'm watching you.

[QUOTE=Penis Colada;28630500]WOW, Prassel just deleted the moddb page: [url]http://www.moddb.com/games/orion-prelude/[/url][/QUOTE] It may have been closed for violating the terms of service. [QUOTE=Moddb ToS]conflicts between two members must be kept in private and will not be brought into the public community[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Pelf;28638661]It may have been closed for violating the terms of service.[/QUOTE] Yeah but Henley, the ModDB editor, has to clear news or articles before they appear on the front page (mod updates usually require media to appear). So I don't know why it would be deleted in result of that news update.

[QUOTE=Pelf;28638661]It may have been closed for violating the terms of service.[/QUOTE] haha yeah right -- moddb moderators were LOVING it

So, the whole ordeal started because they didn't sign contracts early on? Also, I suppose the ModDB moderators saw what was going on and decided to stem the conflict-by closing everything related to the game. Kinda heavy-handed, but I guess it worked.

Kinda sad to see this really. I worked as a mapper on the Orion source mod. My main map was Ctf_Dorsa which i spent quite a lot of time on as well as the color correction work for the rest. he was pretty easy to work with and a fun guy overall. I generally keep in touch with him off and on, though i had NO idea any of this shit was happening. He was a dick to the community through, not taking much criticism. i felt like he released it way to early, that mod could have been great with a lot more work but he was so excited for how pretty everything looked that he completely forgot about the gameplay aspect.

[QUOTE=surfur;28665404]Kinda sad to see this really. I worked as a mapper on the Orion source mod. My main map was Ctf_Dorsa which i spent quite a lot of time on as well as the color correction work for the rest. he was pretty easy to work with and a fun guy overall. I generally keep in touch with him off and on, though i had NO idea any of this shit was happening. He was a dick to the community through, not taking much criticism. i felt like he released it way to early, that mod could have been great with a lot more work but he was so excited for how pretty everything looked that he completely forgot about the gameplay aspect.[/QUOTE] Bad designers usually do that. Look at games Like ABP, they concentrated all their time on all this ancillary cool looking stuff but woops!, they forgot to make the game fun!. and then they went bankrupt.

Wasn't David the guy who was making a portal mod with some Portal 2 Collab users help? And he was just the idea guy? Or was that someone else. Anyway, that was a dick move.

That really sucks, it looks like an okay game too. I'm just gonna wait and see how this unfolds.