Article - PC Game Piracy Examined (Author: Koroush Ghazi - Tweak Guides) - Games

[QUOTE=Hostel;19805711]Again, I would read the article if you haven't already, what you guys are saying is just old news to this guy and his article. The consoles have an intelligent piece of hardware installed with firmware that stops piracy. While some do overwrite the hardware with modified firmware, it's a real hassle to accomplish and there is a risk of permanently screwing up your console. This is the main reason why less people pirate games on the consoles. This same technology should be implemented into motherboards for PCs, but developers better make damn sure that they get a legitimate demo out to us, or maybe even a 6 hour trial of the full game like the indie developers of Mount & Blade did.[/QUOTE] fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck no. we need MORE separation between pcs and consoles, not less.

[QUOTE=johanz;19808993]It won't really work, would it? You can modify exe not to read the chip and that's it, at least that's how cracks work right now. If chip is there, instead of not checking dvd disc, it won't check chip for validity and pretty much that's it. And it's not very good move in terms of economy.[/QUOTE] Yeah a chip in your motherboard is pretty much not viable for anyone. Microsoft has to spend money on an API Motherboard Manufacturers have to buy the chip and support it Consumers have to buy motherboards with the chip All of that time and money for an anti-piracy chip that will probably have ways around it to play games.

They should have stopped making DRM when it started hurting the consumer more than the actual pirate

I think this is ridiculous Seeing the amount of piracy going on right now, and how everyone is moving to consoles is disgusting. Now PC's will have less exclusives, less benefits, and more DRM. All computers will be internet machines if piracy rates keep increasing how they are.

[QUOTE=deepneau;19807330]Games should be free; end of story. Oh, and government will pay the companies for their time.[/QUOTE] It keeps us off the streets! I do pirate a few things, though for retail video games I usually set a timer for 45 minutes, once the timer goes off I quit the game and decide whether I should buy it. With Steam, their deals tend to make me impulse buy, which avoids me feeling the guilt of not contributing to the developer.

[QUOTE=Hostel;19805711] The consoles have an intelligent piece of hardware installed with firmware that stops piracy. While some do overwrite the hardware with modified firmware, it's a real hassle to accomplish and there is a risk of permanently screwing up your console. This is the main reason why less people pirate games on the consoles. [b]This same technology should be implemented into motherboards for PCs[/b], but developers better make damn sure that they get a legitimate demo out to us, or maybe even a 6 hour trial of the full game like the indie developers of Mount & Blade did.[/QUOTE] No. [QUOTE=Hostel;19807749] Including chips on a motherboard loaded with firmware to stop pirating is not as ridiculous as it sounds to some of you. All it really needs is a kick start from Microsoft to develop some kind of API (Example: DirectX API so different manufacturers can make video cards that all work.) and the hardware manufacturers can take care of the rest. Johanz, don't even go there, that like when Pat Robertson exclaimed "If they allow pornography to become acceptable, when will it end? The next thing you know, beasteality will become OK with everyone" If Microsoft makes an API, you can guarantee game companies to work with manufacturers to get this to work right. Sort of like Nvidia's "The way it's meant to be played" program where they work with game companies to make the software work better with their cards. The thing is though, Microsoft sort of wants PC gaming to decline, because their market is ensured in the XBOX 360.[/QUOTE] [b]Fuck. No.[/b]

Don't lie to yourself and act like an impulsive PC, dare I say it, fanboy. I feel inclined to think that the only reason you are rejecting the idea is for the pure reason that it came from a console. This is nothing radical or extreme, it's just putting a tiny chip on a motherboard with firmware to stop people from attempting to install illegitimate software. I am a die hard PC gamer, I have never owned a console in my life. And again, those of you who did not read the entire article are just looking like fools, I wasn't bullshitting you when I said it covers a wide variety of things. If you just the article, we could have been beyond this old news and into something a little more interesting. I agree that they should stop with anti-piracy software like DRM, SecuROM, etc. Games are always cracked in the first day, the popular games are usually leaked days before the actual release because someone out their is attaining them from where they are waiting to be shipped.

[QUOTE=Hostel;19815113]Don't lie to yourself and act like an impulsive PC, dare I say it, fanboy. I feel inclined to think that the only reason you are rejecting the idea is for the pure reason that it came from a console. This is nothing radical or extreme, it's just putting a tiny chip on a motherboard with firmware to stop people from attempting to install illegitimate software. I am a die hard PC gamer, I have never owned a console in my life. And again, those of you who did not read the entire article are just looking like fools, I wasn't bullshitting you when I said it covers a wide variety of things. If you just the article, we could have been beyond this old news and into something a little more interesting. I agree that they should stop with anti-piracy software like DRM, SecuROM, etc. Games are always cracked in the first day, the popular games are usually leaked days before the actual release because someone out their is attaining them from where they are waiting to be shipped.[/QUOTE] there really isn't any effective way of doing hardware drm without completely locking down the computer, a little chip checking the software you install would be easy as balls to get around

Despite the obvious monetary and feasibility issues of that chip, I actually think it would be a rather good idea. The reason is that, although it would be fairly easy to bypass, so are the DRM techniques put into games today. The difference with these would be that they don't harm the consumer any, except for a slight increase in the cost of a computer. So, while it wouldn't really help prevent piracy any more than DRM these days do, it would certainly help the honest consumer much more.

[QUOTE=Achilles123;19815904]Despite the obvious monetary and feasibility issues of that chip, I actually think it would be a rather good idea. The reason is that, although it would be fairly easy to bypass, so are the DRM techniques put into games today. The difference with these would be that they don't harm the consumer any, except for a slight increase in the cost of a computer. So, while it wouldn't really help prevent piracy any more than DRM these days do, it would certainly help the honest consumer much more.[/QUOTE] the amount of misinformation spread about current DRM is bad enough, it would be twenty times worse for hardware DRM. and if it's easily bypassed then companies will just go back to software DRM.

[QUOTE=Lazor;19815943]the amount of misinformation spread about current DRM is bad enough, it would be twenty times worse for hardware DRM. and if it's easily bypassed then companies will just go back to software DRM.[/QUOTE] The companies these days KNOW that the DRM has little effect on piracy, and they know these chips will as well. However, these will also save the companies from going to the work and cost, however little, of including DRM on their releases. Also, sure there would be misinformation, but when isn't there? You're never going to please everybody.

[QUOTE=Achilles123;19815969]The companies these days KNOW that the DRM has little effect on piracy, and they know these chips will as well. However, these will also save the companies from going to the work and cost, however little, of including DRM on their releases. Also, sure there would be misinformation, but when isn't there? You're never going to please everybody.[/QUOTE] the point of drm is to keep pirates from cracking your games for as long as possible, the longer, the better a little chip on the motherboard that's universally cracked isn't going to achieve this goal at all, software drm has successfully remained uncracked for extended periods of time before

[QUOTE=Lazor;19816052]the point of drm is to keep pirates from cracking your games for as long as possible, the longer, the better a little chip on the motherboard that's universally cracked isn't going to achieve this goal at all, software drm has successfully remained uncracked for extended periods of time before[/QUOTE] I'm not sure what you're talking about, most games have been cracked the day at, and also before they were released, and they still had software DRM.

The idea seems to work quite well for consoles players. Most don't want to risk editing the firmware in the chip to bypass pirated games in fear that it will permanently mess up their system and void their warranty. They have every reason to fear it though, because it does mess your console. The problem seems to lie in the fact that the PC games data is loaded from the hard drive, where it can be manipulated to bypass security measures. Game makers could encrypt certain files so they can't be edited or replaced, but it might hinder performance. That last solution seems too simple, they probably would have thought of that by now. [QUOTE=Lazor;19815725]there really isn't any effective way of doing hardware drm without completely locking down the computer, a little chip checking the software you install would be easy as balls to get around[/QUOTE] Dedicated hardware has always been better at performing a job. Why do you think companies prefer hardware firewalls?

[QUOTE=Achilles123;19816287]I'm not sure what you're talking about, most games have been cracked the day at, and also before they were released, and they still had software DRM.[/QUOTE] that's why I said some not all did you even read the article? I suspect that you didn't [editline]01:25AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Hostel;19816358]The idea seems to work quite well for consoles players. Most don't want to risk editing the firmware in the chip to bypass pirated games in fear that it will permanently mess up their system and void their warranty. They have every reason to fear it though, because it does mess your console. The problem seems to lie in the fact that the PC games data is loaded from the hard drive, where it can be manipulated to bypass security measures. Game makers could encrypt certain files so they can't be edited or replaced, but it might hinder performance. That last solution seems too simple, they probably would have thought of that by now. Dedicated hardware has always been better at performing a job. Why do you think companies prefer hardware firewalls?[/QUOTE] if a hacker had access to the hardware firewall the company was using do you really think it would be effective?

[QUOTE=Hostel;19805343]He mentions that Crysis had a demo that contained the entire first level, yet the game was pirated by almost 1,000,000 people. He still insist though that companies should make the buyer more confident about what he is paying for by providing more realistic system requirements, more media, and a decent sized demo of the game. Honestly, how many of us know what the hell are we exactly buying until we play it?[/QUOTE] They later increased it to the first 3 levels, and you could add more.

[QUOTE=Lazor;19816642]that's why I said some not all did you even read the article? I suspect that you didn't [editline]01:25AM[/editline] if a hacker had access to the hardware firewall the company was using do you really think it would be effective?[/QUOTE] How many times have you heard of a hacker getting through a hardware firewall? Most hackers don't bother to bypass it, they go war-driving and find workers who are accessing their corporate networks through their laptops from home that are unprotected.

[QUOTE=Hostel;19816735]How many times have you heard of a hacker getting through a hardware firewall? Most hackers don't bother to bypass it, they go war-driving and find workers who are accessing their corporate networks through their laptops from home that are unprotected.[/QUOTE] how many times do hackers have physical access to a hardware firewall?

[QUOTE=Lazor;19816763]how many times do hackers have physical access to a hardware firewall?[/QUOTE] Why do you ask? Well, to answer your question realistically, not as many times as a malicious software could bypass a software firewall. Your argument is just pointless rabble. My point is, dedicated hardware would be much better at detecting attempts at installing pirated software. It's not as easy to bypass as software protection since you have to edit the firmware in the hardware, which means running a risk of completely screwing up the chip permanently, sort of like bricking an iPhone. The iPhone is actually a prime example of how this protection would work in some regards.

[b]You aren't about to stop pirates so stop trying.[/b] No measure you imagine would stop a pirate. The pirates will keep cracking, and will keep stealing. That's what they want to do, that's what they're going to do. You'll dissuade some of the casual pirates from doing it, and you'll also lose their sales because they never intended to buy in the first place. You won't be getting the entire market back to buy a game by including a chip like the consoles do because if you haven't noticed, they're all cracked now. There are ways around it, and you can't win. There will always be pirates. No matter how much you want to, unless you start invading privacy, start making things illegal that should not be illegal, and remove Net Neutrality, and radically alter the structure of website searching, you won't be getting rid of pirates, and that's not a cost [b]anyone here, or anywhere should be willing to pay.[/b]

[QUOTE=Hostel;19816861]Why do you ask? This is just pointless rabble. My point is, dedicated hardware would be much better at detecting attempts at installing pirated software. It's not as easy to bypass as software protection since you have to edit the firmware in the hardware, which means running a risk of completely screwing up the chip permanently, sort of like bricking an iPhone. The iPhone is actually a prime example of how this protection would work in some regards.[/QUOTE] you assume you'll need to even touch the hardware to bypass it this is not like a hardware firewall or an iphone at all, stop making stupid comparisons

[QUOTE=Hostel;19816861]Why do you ask? Well, to answer your question realistically, not as many times as a malicious software could bypass a software firewall. Your argument is just pointless rabble. My point is, dedicated hardware would be much better at detecting attempts at installing pirated software. It's not as easy to bypass as software protection since you have to edit the firmware in the hardware, which means running a risk of completely screwing up the chip permanently, sort of like bricking an iPhone. The iPhone is actually a prime example of how this protection would work in some regards.[/QUOTE] iPhone's are ridiculously easy to crack. I've seen people start up underground shops where they Jailbreak your phone for 130 dollars.

[QUOTE=thisispain;19816925]iPhone's are ridiculously easy to crack. I've seen people start up underground shops where they Jailbreak your phone for 130 dollars.[/QUOTE] Anyone who pays to get their phone cracked is a technologically incapable child.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;19816933]Anyone who pays to get their phone cracked is a technologically incapable child.[/QUOTE] That's nice but completely irrelevant.

Make the game WORTH the money and people will buy it.

[QUOTE=thisispain;19816944]That's nice but completely irrelevant.[/QUOTE] I know, your point is totally valid, I'm just saying that the cracks that can, and will be employed on the hardware/software will be do-able from home by anyone who can read a simple walk through. [editline]10:48PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Mac2468;19816958]Make the game WORTH the money and people will buy it.[/QUOTE] You'll certainly get a larger audience, that's for sure.

[QUOTE=Hostel;19816358]The idea seems to work quite well for consoles players. Most don't want to risk editing the firmware in the chip to bypass pirated games in fear that it will permanently mess up their system and void their warranty. They have every reason to fear it though, because it does mess your console. The problem seems to lie in the fact that the PC games data is loaded from the hard drive, where it can be manipulated to bypass security measures. Game makers could encrypt certain files so they can't be edited or replaced, but it might hinder performance. That last solution seems too simple, they probably would have thought of that by now. Dedicated hardware has always been better at performing a job. Why do you think companies prefer hardware firewalls?[/QUOTE] the problem with the integrated chip is that it wouldn't be on all the motherboards that are out. developers would have to get all the major motherboard producers to make their next line of motherboards include that chip. the chip is possible but it would take a LONG TIME to get it to cover 90% of the market.

Don't be so presumptuous, it's just an interesting topic and it's fun to explore different solutions. Of coarse you are not going to stomp every pirate out on the planet, but you can single it out until only the risk-takers do it. If you haven't noticed what I said already, installing modified firmware into console can potentially screw it up. In addition to that, even if you do get it successfully installed, there is a risk of being banned off the XBOX live or PlayStation network. Not to mention that doing this all together voids your warranty on the product. That's three risks too many for a lot of pirates.

[QUOTE=bobste;19817010]the problem with the integrated chip is that it wouldn't be on all the motherboards that are out. developers would have to get all the major motherboard producers to make their next line of motherboards include that chip. the chip is possible but it would take a LONG TIME to get it to cover 90% of the market.[/QUOTE] And then it would be a waste of money because within a few months there would be ways around it, and anyone who is a dedicated pirate would know better than to buy that motherboard when making a new computer. It solves [b] absolutely fucking nothing[/b]. And you know god damn well they would make you pay extra for it and act like it was a crime not to have one.

[QUOTE=Mac2468;19816958]Make the game WORTH the money and people will buy it.[/QUOTE] This. When it comes down to it. There is always going to be the possibility to pirate a game, or to buy it. Companies need to stop trying to defeat piracy by forcing DRM and other software on their consumers and instead give them a reason to be consumers of the game in question. Offering services to consumers only and building a tightly knit community will make people who would otherwise just download the game rethink their decision after finding out what they can get by being a legitimate owner.