Article - PC Game Piracy Examined (Author: Koroush Ghazi - Tweak Guides) - Games

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;19818097]Spore, Bioshock(Was removed after so much complaining, for that fucking reason), Bioshock 2(if you support the DRM on Bioshock, you should go kill yourself, you have no idea how bad that shit is) Mirrors Edge(not the steam version I believe) and no more jump off the top of my head, but does that matter? They ARE out there you idiot.[/QUOTE] Spore's can be revoked Bioshock 2's can be revoked Mirror's Edge's can be revoked

[QUOTE=Lazor;19818133]Spore's can be revoked Bioshock 2's can be revoked Mirror's Edge's can be revoked[/QUOTE] I wonder why they can be revoked.....oh yeah, [U]because there was so much outrage over it that they ended up having to release a way to revoke in the first place![/U] Meanwhile the pirates are enjoying the game with their bypassed activation limit. If that isn't a red flag on the effectiveness of DRM then I don't know what is.

[QUOTE=Wtbalife;19818109]Incredible Logic coming from a guy who's greatest rebuttal is evading the topic at hand. Just because i have not read some guide with situational information doesn't mean my opinion is any less relevant. If you have a problem with my opinion you should try arguing with your own instead of telling me to read.[/QUOTE] wow, good job using a totally irrelevant term("situational information") to describe an article you haven't read nearly every claim you've made is mentioned in the article, If you can't be bothered to read what the topic is about, then don't expect me to care if you think I'm not staying on topic [editline]03:34AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Wtbalife;19818154]I wonder why they can be revoked.....oh yeah, [U]because there was so much outrage over it that they ended up having to release a way to revoke in the first place![/U] Meanwhile the pirates are enjoying the game with their bypassed activation limit. If that isn't a red flag on the effectiveness of DRM then I don't know what is.[/QUOTE] the only one of those games that didn't release with a revoke tool was Spore, you illiterate little prick

[QUOTE=Hostel;19805343]He mentions that Crysis had a demo that contained the entire first level, yet the game was pirated by almost 1,000,000 people. He still insist though that companies should make the buyer more confident about what he is paying for by providing more realistic system requirements, more media, and a decent sized demo of the game. Honestly, how many of us know what the hell are we exactly buying until we play it?[/QUOTE] That was a next-gen game though, I'm pretty sure anyone with a powerful PC was the audience, and that's fucking huge compared to the audience of most games.

[QUOTE=Lazor;19818160]wow, good job using a totally irrelevant term("situational information") to describe an article you haven't read nearly every claim you've made is mentioned in the article, If you can't be bothered to read what the topic is about, then don't expect me to care if you think I'm not staying on topic [editline]03:34AM[/editline] the only one of those games that didn't release with a revoke tool was Spore, you illiterate little prick[/QUOTE] Then they didn't need the DRM you stupid illiterate prick.

[QUOTE=Lazor;19818160]wow, good job using a totally irrelevant term("situational information") to describe an article you haven't read nearly every claim you've made is mentioned in the article, If you can't be bothered to read what the topic is about, then don't expect me to care if you think I'm not staying on topic [editline]03:34AM[/editline] the only one of those games that didn't release with a revoke tool was Spore, you illiterate little prick[/QUOTE] Must we really get into name calling? Whats the matter, unable to hold an opinion without hating another for not accepting it? Just because it released with a revoke tool doesn't make it any more right. The only reason a revoke tool was made in the first place was because there was so much outrage on the limits that there was little to no choice left. It did absolutely nothing to deter pirates who bypassed it with ease, and it continues to do nothing to deter them. In fact, some people will now no longer buy games on the basis of that limit.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;19818189]Then they didn't need the DRM you stupid illiterate prick.[/QUOTE] yeah, because the only thing securom has is activation limits are you seriously this stupid [editline]03:39AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Wtbalife;19818199]Must we really get into name calling? Whats the matter, unable to hold an opinion without hating another for not accepting it? Just because it released with a revoke tool doesn't make it any more right. The only reason a revoke tool was made in the first place was because there was so much outrage on the limits that there was little to no choice left. It did absolutely nothing to deter pirates who bypassed it with ease, and it continues to do nothing to deter them.[/QUOTE] who cares why it was released, it's there now, you can stop raging now

Do I smell soiled baby diapers?

[QUOTE=Lazor;19818211]yeah, because the only thing securom has is activation limits are you seriously this stupid [editline]03:39AM[/editline] who cares why it was released, it's there now, you can stop raging now[/QUOTE] Are you seriously this fucking stupid? Jesus. DRM [b]provides no real problems for pirates you fuck.[/b] Those DRM's were probably broken within days, not really fulfilling their goals, and since only hindering people who bought the game. Now get your head out of your ass, and grow up.

[QUOTE=Lazor;19818211]yeah, because the only thing securom has is activation limits are you seriously this stupid [editline]03:39AM[/editline] who cares why it was released, it's there now, you can stop raging now[/QUOTE] The irony in what you just said is hilarious, as It matters more then your precious article. The DRM did nothing to stop pirates but continued to effect the true customers. Because of this foolish action on top of pirates you now have a fair amount of people who avoid games with DRM and activation limits like the fucking plague. It shows how useless activation limits truly are in the long run. The outcry from the customers prove this point.

[QUOTE=Wtbalife;19818251]The irony in what you just said is hilarious. It matters just as much as your precious article. The DRM did nothing to stop pirates but continued to effect the true customers. Because of this foolish action on top of pirates you now have a fair amount of people who avoid games with DRM and activation limits like the fucking plague. It shows how useless activation limits truly are in the long run.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but don't point that out to him. He'll just tell us to read the article again(I did) and that he's right and DRM is just.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;19818240]Are you seriously this fucking stupid? Jesus. DRM [B]provides no real problems for pirates you fuck.[/B] Those DRM's were probably broken within days, not really fulfilling their goals, and since only hindering people who bought the game. Now get your head out of your ass, and grow up.[/QUOTE] every day a game goes uncracked is more sales from would be pirates, that's the entire point of the DRM. The fact that games have gone uncracked for over a year proves it can be done, sure it needs a bit of tweaking to prevent compatibility problems. Maybe you should get your head out of your ass and stop assuming for DRM to work it has to be intrusive. Or maybe get your head out of your ass and stop pirating games and giving companies a reason to implement DRM in the first place. [editline]03:45AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Wtbalife;19818251]The irony in what you just said is hilarious, as It matters more then your precious article. The DRM did nothing to stop pirates but continued to effect the true customers. Because of this foolish action on top of pirates you now have a fair amount of people who avoid games with DRM and activation limits like the fucking plague. It shows how useless activation limits truly are in the long run. The outcry from the customers prove this point.[/QUOTE] the outcry from customers are based on misinformation campaigns and assumptions, not actual problems.

[QUOTE=Jund;19806214]Jesus, how much money does it take to get a game into a cd and put it in a nice box?[/QUOTE] Developing costs money too, y´know,

[QUOTE=Lazor;19818270]every day a game goes uncracked is more sales from would be pirates, that's the entire point of the DRM. The fact that games have gone uncracked for over a year proves it can be done, sure it needs a bit of tweaking to prevent compatibility problems. Maybe you should get your head out of your ass and stop assuming for DRM to work it has to be intrusive. Or maybe get your head out of your ass and stop pirating games and giving companies a reason to implement DRM in the first place. [editline]03:45AM[/editline] the outcry from customers are based on misinformation campaigns and assumptions, not actual problems.[/QUOTE] A week and a year are different time frames, a week stops very, very, very fucking little, where as a year stops a lot, but is the rarest of occurrences. How many games have gone that long? 2? Not enough to justify DRM. When a game get's cracked the day of, the day after, the week of, sales change, what? under a %? Is that really [b]worth[/b] forever inconveniencing a customer? To you, it might be, not to the fucking customer. And generally those outcries are still getting it right.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;19817193]DRM is a valid reason not to buy it, and instead steal it. Is it [b]fair[/b] that the company treats you like shit, and essentially doesn't really give you the game when you buy it, and really only lets you have a licence of it? No. Don't defend DRM saying it's not, when you don't really own the game, you shouldn't really be paying for "ownership" of the game.[/QUOTE] That is how software always has been. You are buying a license to use it even without DRM. [QUOTE=laserpanda;19817164]He keeps using Crysis as an example, and talking about how it didn't sell well. When it came out, very few computers could run it at decent framerate, so of course no one bought it.[/QUOTE] I think its rep as a game that is unplayable without a boss rig is undeserved. It ran just fine on medium-high on a system that choked on crappy 360 ports and GTA4.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;19818298]A week and a year are different time frames, a week stops very, very, very fucking little, where as a year stops a lot, but is the rarest of occurrences. How many games have gone that long? 2? Not enough to justify DRM. When a game get's cracked the day of, the day after, the week of, sales change, what? under a %? Is that really [B]worth[/B] forever inconveniencing a customer? To you, it might be, not to the fucking customer. And generally those outcries are still getting it right.[/QUOTE] how are the outcries getting it right? provide me some information rather than constantly asserting that it "inconveniences the customer" and the fact that games have gone uncracked for months or years means companies are going to strive for that goal, not just bend over and take it from pirates

[QUOTE=Skooma;19818316]That is how software always has been. You are buying a license to use it even without DRM. I think its rep as a game that is unplayable without a boss rig is undeserved. It ran just fine on medium-high on a system that choked on crappy 360 ports and GTA4.[/QUOTE] No, you're not. If you're buying a licences for something like a game, would you be able to mod it? Chances are, no, would you be able to load it up, and do whatever you want with it, such as resell? Oh, that's right, you wouldn't.

[QUOTE=Lazor;19818270]every day a game goes uncracked is more sales from would be pirates, that's the entire point of the DRM. The fact that games have gone uncracked for over a year proves it can be done, sure it needs a bit of tweaking to prevent compatibility problems. Maybe you should get your head out of your ass and stop assuming for DRM to work it has to be intrusive. Or maybe get your head out of your ass and stop pirating games and giving companies a reason to implement DRM in the first place. [editline]03:45AM[/editline] the outcry from customers are based on misinformation campaigns and assumptions, not actual problems.[/QUOTE] ...And every day that a game has DRM which does not allow it to be cracked so easily is another day people refuse to pick it up on the basis that it has DRM and they dont want to be treated like shit for the possibility of an extra couple of weeks to prevent pirates. Do you see how this vicious cycle goes? DRM may work short term, but in the end pirates Crack it and the only use it has from that point on is to refuse customers liberties they deserve and deter possible customers altogether. Your not understanding my point. I have no problem with DRM such as steam where it serves its purpose, but the DRM most companies use now treat everyone, even customers, with the same respect they would give to bank robbers. I hardly see how the outcry of people who just wanted more activations is created by misinformation. Its a pointless addition to DRM that does absolutely nothing to prevent pirates, and i for one am glad people took a stand against such utter bullshit.

[QUOTE=Lazor;19818325]how are the outcries getting it right? provide me some information rather than constantly asserting that it "inconveniences the customer" and the fact that games have gone uncracked for months or years means companies are going to strive for that goal, not just bend over and take it from pirates[/QUOTE] Because it [b]does inconvenience them[/b]. How is that hard to understand?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;19818342]Because it [B]does inconvenience them[/B]. How is that hard to understand?[/QUOTE] it inconveniences them because it inconveniences them brilliant logic after seeing such amazing logic i have to go play one of my games that's inconveniencing me to let it sink in

[QUOTE=Lazor;19818365]it inconveniences them because it inconveniences them brilliant logic[/QUOTE] It's about the same as yours at this point. It inconviences them because it throws up issues on various hardwares, install limits aren't always lifted, especially not on debut, things like GFWL(a form of DRM) is terrible, and ruins the experience. Etc. But of course, that doesn't exist and i should read the article again because you're the only one that can be right, ever.

You can't prevent it, you can only Delay it... very very briefly... and then from there on, be a burden to legit customers to some degree... If I was running a major game dev company, I would go and Release a Demo of the Final product, not a pre-release (After it's gone gold, but not out yet), I'd put slightly higher system requirements than is needed on the box, Only copies published in the first 2-4 weeks would have any DRM on it.. and then release a patch for said games after a month that removes any third party software having to do with it That should take care of the issues that are solvable issues and help prevent losses, Because as I've said a billion times before, you can't prevent piracy, but there ARE a number of reasons people do pirate that are very easily taken care of

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;19817053]For the roughly 36 Million 360's sold, only 17 million are connected to xbox live, and of that 36 million, 1 million(Roughly) are cracked by conservative estimates. What do you say to that?[/QUOTE] I say it's because the 18 million unaccounted for are broken and are beyond their warranty date. Honestly, Microsoft deserves whatever cracking they get for releasing a product that breaks so easily. The only way for me to get my 360 working again would be to crack the firmware and replace the DVD drive, or pay $100 to renew my warranty with Microsoft.

[QUOTE=Razgriz4977;19818424]I say it's because the 18 million unaccounted for are broken and are beyond their warranty date. Honestly, Microsoft deserves whatever cracking they get for releasing a product that breaks so easily.[/QUOTE] The failure rate is an astronomical 22%. They don't break that fucking often. I had a launch console from Nov 22 05, to February 08. The claims that are out there are exaggerated, and it's tiring to see people take them seriously. I agree, that rate is too high, but it's not THAT high. That 36 million number is active, and non warranty returned consoles. [editline]01:04AM[/editline] [QUOTE=TheTalon;19818416]You can't prevent it, you can only Delay it... very very briefly... and then from there on, be a burden to legit customers to some degree... If I was running a major game dev company, I would go and Release a Demo of the Final product, not a pre-release (After it's gone gold, but not out yet), I'd put slightly higher system requirements than is needed on the box, Only copies published in the first 2-4 weeks would have any DRM on it.. and then release a patch for said games after a month that removes any third party software having to do with it That should take care of the issues that are solvable issues and help prevent losses, Because as I've said a billion times before, you can't prevent piracy, but there ARE a number of reasons people do pirate that are very easily taken care of[/QUOTE] Yeah, but don't say that to Lazor, he'll just shout at you and call you an idiot.

[QUOTE=TheTalon;19818416]You can't prevent it, you can only Delay it... very very briefly... and then from there on, be a burden to legit customers to some degree... If I was running a major game dev company, I would go and Release a Demo of the Final product, not a pre-release (After it's gone gold, but not out yet), I'd put slightly higher system requirements than is needed on the box, Only copies published in the first 2-4 weeks would have any DRM on it.. and then release a patch for said games after a month that removes any third party software having to do with it That should take care of the issues that are solvable issues and help prevent losses, Because as I've said a billion times before, you can't prevent piracy, but there ARE a number of reasons people do pirate that are very easily taken care of[/QUOTE] Exactly. People need to stop looking at it from a physical way to try to stop pirates and start looking at a logical way to make them rethink wanting to pirate it in the first place. As I posted earlier this sort of thing was attempted by the Zeno Clash Dev team with some very suprising results. If companies gave this approach a chance for once I am sure it would make many people reconsider pirating, especially those who use the "try and Buy" excuse.

Myself, I have to admit that I am a pirate. I do very frequently pirate games. That being said, I'm very glad I do. Of all the games I pirate, I can only think of one that I have played for more than two hours. I've learned a very, very valuable lesson about games. Just think if I'd went out and paid $60 for all those games, played them for 15 minutes, then removed them from my hard-drive because they were shit? I'll give an example, Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War II. I absolutely LOVED the first DoW. Even if I weren't an avid 40k fan, it's still a high quality RTS. When they released DoWII I was seriously considering buying it. I decided I'd try it, if I liked the Skirmish mode (I hate RTS campaign modes, except for DoW Soulstorm), then I'd buy it so I could play multiplayer. I found a cracked version, DLed it, and played. Then guess what? IT WAS AWFUL. I hated it. Either I missed something or there was no building of structures in Skirmish. What if I had bought the game? That would've been $60 I never would've seen again. Totally wasted. So yeah, I do think I'm somewhat justified in my torrenting. In fact, I'm currently torrenting TES: Oblivion GOTYE as I type this. And this is another reason I torrent games: I own not one, but two copies of it for 360 (Original T rated version, and GOTY version), which I can't play, because of Microsoft's poor product quality (as I mentioned before, 360 is internally FUBARed). I had a huge 360 library. I had almost all of the popular games. I had an XBox live subscription. All of that. Now when my 360 is broke, you think I'm gonna forfeit all of those games? No sir, I'm gonna DL them for PC, which I actually like better now anyway.

Proud to say I've never once pirated a game. I always pay the money forward when the game is worth my money. I even wait for the absurd release dates, like STALKER CoP which has been released in Europe since last year and it's only now getting a North American release next month. Physical copies are preferable but I also have a few Digital Downloads.

[QUOTE=Hostel;19815113]Don't lie to yourself and act like an impulsive PC, dare I say it, fanboy. I feel inclined to think that the only reason you are rejecting the idea is for the pure reason that it came from a console. This is nothing radical or extreme, it's just putting a tiny chip on a motherboard with firmware to stop people from attempting to install illegitimate software. [/QUOTE] No, it's not because I hate consoles. I have an Xbox and a PS3 and I enjoy them both greatly and, in fact, they are my main gaming platforms until I can get a better PC. I'm rejecting the idea because it's invasive technology which most likely will not function properly and will only punish the people who buy games legitimately. [QUOTE=Hostel;19817052]That has never worked. There are dozens of worthwhile games that are pirated by the hundreds of thousands. You haven't read the article either.[/QUOTE] And what will happen if invasive DRM hardware or software gets put to stop pirates from doing so? Instead of going out and buying the game, then buying an extra five copies for themselves like you think they will, they'll either crack it or say "Fuck this shit" and not bother with the game. [QUOTE=Hostel;19817657] We are talking about piracy, read through the thread and article. Congrats on your first post.[/QUOTE] I think he's getting desperate. :3:

Well the Day 1/0 piracy thing is pretty accurate. All you have to do is delay sales long enough for people to buy it on the initial hype rush and you win. One thing you could do is install one of the most powerful DRM systems around to last a good month or so and then [B]remove it completely![/B] This way everyone buys it on the initial hype rush, you make a profit and them you remove it saying that "we have made our money, there is no need to screw the user over anymore!" They did raise a good point about steam being a worse form of DRM because of the way that if Valve go under your games will either stop working or be left at the mercy of another company. I think gamers and devs need to make from a closer relationship. If the Dev can make the user happy enough not to care about the temporary DRM (see above) then the PC gaming industry will more than just move out of this little dip it's gone into. It will Soar above the stars themselves. TL:DR Better customer relations, Temporary DRM.

[QUOTE=thisguy123;19820950] They did raise a good point about steam being a worse form of DRM because of the way that if Valve go under your games will either stop working or be left at the mercy of another company. [/QUOTE] Guess what, any game that requires online activation can fuck you over if that service stops working. And valve said if for some reason steam goes dead, they will release thing that allows you to play it nonsteam(not like we don't have such tools already)