[QUOTE=elivance;38855421]
[B]2-[/B] If there's a Riki in your lane buy Gem of true sight.
Today a Sniper in my team died 8 times because of Riki.
I was snowballing with Traxex(thanks dumb Bloodseeker) but I couldn't do anything against Warlock and Riki with my same K/D ratio.[/QUOTE]
Counterpoint: buying gem early is fucking retarded and you should always get sentries or dust instead. Dropping 700 gold on an item with the risk of losing it is devastating early game. You should only ever buy it if A) you've totally solidified your position over an enemy invis hero to prevent them from clawing their way back or B) you have a hero like Slark who can easily find and kill wards.
[QUOTE=RagerTrader;38853087]There are several heroes that can jungle but lack the DPS to do it efficiently, and therefor are better off in lane unless your team's picks don't allow for it.
Efficient LVL1 Junglers: Enigma, Prophet, Lycan, Axe, Chen, Enchantress, Doom*, Lifestealer
Possible-but-slower LVL1 Junglers: Bloodseeker, Lone Druid, Ursa, Tinker, Skeleton King, Windrunner
(*Assuming you are not ridiculously unlucky with creep spawns and never find a Dark Troll Warlord, Forest Troll High Priest, Satyr Hellcaller, or Ogre Magi)[/QUOTE]
You don't need Dark Troll Warlord, and Ogre Magi isn't the best one you should be getting. Doom in the jungle, even with it full of mud golems, can still farm a Hand of Midas by 8 minutes. Once he has that, he can get into Nature's Prophet farm levels.
Honestly, the best early-jungling thing Doom can get is the Satyr Hellcaster with his 4HP regen.
[QUOTE=ThatSprite;38853719]Nothing's worse when Jungling Enigma then finding mutliple mud golem camps.
Fuck those guys. Seriously.[/QUOTE]
I never find them a problem if you bring some eniglets over from another camp. If you're about to run out of time for them, just create more on your own eniglets.
[editline]16th December 2012[/editline]
IMO, the worst thing you can get in the jungle isn't the Golems, it's the fucking Ursa's with the big one too large to take on early but has a useless ability, and the small one still packs a punch.
if doom gets a wildkin it's pretty great. for some reason creeps don't aggro if you tornado so you can stack a pile of hard camps and wipe them at level 1.
[QUOTE=Hellmouth;38859411]if doom gets a wildkin it's pretty great. for some reason creeps don't aggro if you tornado so you can stack a pile of hard camps and wipe them at level 1.[/QUOTE]
No, you can't. Doom literally does not have the mana pool at level 1 to use the Wildkin Tornado.
jesus this game
[URL]https://dotabuff.com/matches/79903469[/URL]
First Juggernaut picks last after we have that team
Takes top from Spectre so I have to go bot with her
Then Spectre has computer problems throughout game and every time we pause for a second the enemy team throws a fit
We still won despite the complete all around retardation and Spectre being gone for like 5 minutes because the enemy team was equally retarded and blew all their spells on me (VS) and proceeded to get wiped
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;38859850]No, you can't. Doom literally does not have the mana pool at level 1 to use the Wildkin Tornado.[/QUOTE]
gg branches for a good game.
also had an amazing come back from a fed PA that bragged the whole game about her skills. all the towers are gone mid except the last two defending the achient and she goes "brb going to get item and end it" to all chat. towards end game all we had to do was chicken her and we won every team fight. she then cried about losing calling everyone on her team noobs, and then said we are all losers for being in low priority. what a fucking crybaby :v:.
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;38859850]No, you can't. Doom literally does not have the mana pool at level 1 to use the Wildkin Tornado.[/QUOTE]
hey did you maybe consider the fact that he's probably not going to be using tornado at level 1 anyway
[QUOTE=devon_wargod;38861049]hey did you maybe consider the fact that he's probably not going to be using tornado at level 1 anyway[/QUOTE]
He just said it was possible to do it at level one.
[editline]17th December 2012[/editline]
Which is clearly not true, since Doom lacks the mana pool to do so.
if you jungle without items yeah.
branches, stout, clarity, tango. whack the easy camp while stacking. devour the first wildkin you see. by the time you have a nice stack your mana will have regened or you'll level up.
tornado away.
A windrunner that did not buy any starting items, only to buy a quarter staff.
Also did not level shackle at all early game.
[QUOTE=Oldaveragejoe;38862051]A windrunner that did not buy any starting items, only to buy a quarter staff.
Also did not level shackle at all early game.[/QUOTE]
she was obviously getting a force sta-
oh wait
what the fuck
This undying
Tells me to go hard carry, says naix is ok, I pick it, and go to the safe lane, noticed he's taking last hits and tell him to stop
"go jungle naix", fine
I was already on low hp due to the harass, I ask him to heal me, no response, he just stands there, oblivious of anything, suddenly the two people laning come to the jungle and kill me, he didn't put a single damn point on soul rip
"omg naix noob learn to jungle" (yes he actually said this)
and one of my friends actually agreed that naix should jungle and let undying get farm
I hate these people
[QUOTE=leonthefox;38862237]This undying
Tells me to go hard carry, says naix is ok, I pick it, and go to the safe lane, noticed he's taking last hits and tell him to stop
"go jungle naix", fine
I was already on low hp due to the harass, I ask him to heal me, no response, he just stands there, oblivious of anything, suddenly the two people laning come to the jungle and kill me, he didn't put a single damn point on soul rip
"omg naix noob learn to jungle" (yes he actually said this)
and one of my friends actually agreed that naix should jungle and let undying get farm
I hate these people[/QUOTE]
Despite they being retards, Lifestealer is a pretty good jungler imo.
[QUOTE=leonthefox;38862237]This undying
Tells me to go hard carry, says naix is ok, I pick it, and go to the safe lane, noticed he's taking last hits and tell him to stop
"go jungle naix", fine
I was already on low hp due to the harass, I ask him to heal me, no response, he just stands there, oblivious of anything, suddenly the two people laning come to the jungle and kill me, he didn't put a single damn point on soul rip
"omg naix noob learn to jungle" (yes he actually said this)
and one of my friends actually agreed that naix should jungle and let undying get farm
I hate these people[/QUOTE]
I do agree Naix should've jungled and Dirge in lane, but the rest is just retarded.
I hate jungling naix right off the bat, I think its better to go in at level 3.
What exactly makes people think naix is a good jungler? Why is this a thing that people think is good? Is it just because everybody else does it or what? Apply ten seconds of thought and you can see why he is far better in lane.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;38865797]I hate jungling naix right off the bat, I think its better to go in at level 3.[/QUOTE]
[B]never never never ever[/B] do the fucking "lane until 3 then jungle" thing
you are fucking over your lanemates by draining their xp. a solo laner [I]needs[/I] the level advantage to not feed relentlessly and you are removing that advantage from them. also the main reason to have a jungler is to get the extra xp advantage from having two solo laners which doesn't apply if you start laning with them.
you are the stupid people we see in pubs, i am sorry
[QUOTE=leonthefox;38862237]This undying
Tells me to go hard carry, says naix is ok, I pick it, and go to the safe lane, noticed he's taking last hits and tell him to stop
"go jungle naix", fine
I was already on low hp due to the harass, I ask him to heal me, no response, he just stands there, oblivious of anything, suddenly the two people laning come to the jungle and kill me, he didn't put a single damn point on soul rip
"omg naix noob learn to jungle" (yes he actually said this)
and one of my friends actually agreed that naix should jungle and let undying get farm
I hate these people[/QUOTE]
Yes, LS should jungle ASAP but he's an absolutely terrible lvl 1 jungler.
naix can jungle.
assuming that your team is in a position where a jungler(/naix) is needed (because someone is soloing either bot or top)
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;38866108]naix can jungle.
assuming that your team is in a position where a jungler(/naix) is needed (because someone is soloing either bot or top)[/QUOTE]
What I hate is when theres a Lifestealer, theres a leftover pure support hero and then Lifestealer either leeches xp and jungles at level 3 or decides to jungle at level 1, fucking over them both because Lifestealer is slow early.
Naix is not slow jungler from lvl1..
Okay maybe a bit slow. Just one of my most recent matches I got 5:30 Hand of Midas when I farmed in lane. I think I even missed the half of the first creep wave but that was no biggie.
And when I have jungled with Naix, I remember struggling to get Midas by 7th minute so yeah, lane is definitely a bit faster.
All slow or somewhat inefficient junglers can do that trick with pulling the camp in a corner so you can face them one at a time instead of all at once.
[QUOTE=Hellmouth;38862025]if you jungle without items yeah.
branches, stout, clarity, tango. whack the easy camp while stacking. devour the first wildkin you see. by the time you have a nice stack your mana will have regened or you'll level up.
tornado away.[/QUOTE]
You need at least three branches to do so. To jungle Doom you need at least a Stout Shield, Quelling Blade, and some tangoes. With those branches, you have no room for basilius or hand of midas (either of which are required for medium/hard camps when your Q is down). And his mana regen is not that fast. He can't regen 200 mana that fast without basilius, which can't happen if he has 3 branches. Now if you build a wand on him, that's a waste of money which could be build for a midas. In general, it's not a bright idea to do that. When you get a midas you can clear out a 4-stacked hard camp on your own if you have the armor from the wildkins or the damage from the wolves, so there's no need to waste all your mana to do that when you could be ganking the safelane the moment you're done with the stack.
[editline]17th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;38866108]naix can jungle.
assuming that your team is in a position where a jungler(/naix) is needed (because someone is soloing either bot or top)[/QUOTE]
The only real reason you'd have a jungler, period, is if there's someone on your team needs solo farm (that's not mid), for a carry to have safety (can't gank what you can't see), or for ganking easy lane (can't call missing what's not there). There are exceptions for this rule, like Enigma and Doom, which excel at jungling to the point where laning is actually less efficient, but for the most part it's a much better idea to lane.
Jungling N'aix is very common since he can do it well, still be able to farm a Hand of Midas before ten minutes, he's safer from ganks, and he can easily gank the safelane. He fits all the criteria for a jungler.
[editline]17th December 2012[/editline]
Hell, even Chen and Enchantress lane better. Complete and utter lane dominance with those creeps nearby.
had these two australian guys (or at least they claimed to be australians, later they were "lol we are not australians) instantlocking riki and timber, first pick on enemy team, slardar, I should have seen this coming the second they picked him
they constantly complained about lag, practically told us to go fuck ourselves when we told them to play on a closer region and not to isntantlock riki
but what annoyed me the most
at one point timber follows me around (noticed he clicked on my hero, because he stopped and moved along me)) and waited until I attacked a camp or creepwave to use his ult and take all the gold for himself, tell him to stop several times, no fucking response, I wish i had made a shadow blade and gone to the other side of the map just to teach him a lesson
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;38873265]You need at least three branches to do so. To jungle Doom you need at least a Stout Shield, Quelling Blade, and some tangoes. With those branches, you have no room for basilius or hand of midas (either of which are required for medium/hard camps when your Q is down). And his mana regen is not that fast. He can't regen 200 mana that fast without basilius, which can't happen if he has 3 branches. Now if you build a wand on him, that's a waste of money which could be build for a midas. In general, it's not a bright idea to do that. When you get a midas you can clear out a 4-stacked hard camp on your own if you have the armor from the wildkins or the damage from the wolves, so there's no need to waste all your mana to do that when you could be ganking the safelane the moment you're done with the stack.
[editline]17th December 2012[/editline]
The only real reason you'd have a jungler, period, is if there's someone on your team needs solo farm (that's not mid), for a carry to have safety (can't gank what you can't see), or for ganking easy lane (can't call missing what's not there). There are exceptions for this rule, like Enigma and Doom, which excel at jungling to the point where laning is actually less efficient, but for the most part it's a much better idea to lane.
Jungling N'aix is very common since he can do it well, still be able to farm a Hand of Midas before ten minutes, he's safer from ganks, and he can easily gank the safelane. He fits all the criteria for a jungler.
[editline]17th December 2012[/editline]
Hell, even Chen and Enchantress lane better. Complete and utter lane dominance with those creeps nearby.[/QUOTE]
In my experience, doom isn't that terrible at laning
Had someone in a game talk constantly over the mic the entire game. I didn't feel like muting him because he was sometimes useful (some communication better than none etc.).
But he would not stop talking about the only reason he was playing DOTA was because the HoN servers were down.
He called everything by its HoN name and wouldn't shut up about how he'd "rather be playing HOooooooooN"
But he was still better than me, god dammit.
[QUOTE=leonthefox;38873523]In my experience, doom isn't that terrible at laning[/QUOTE]
no he certainly isn't it, but you can easily jungle with him because you can insta-gib any hard camp creep with lvl1 Devour.
although i just spam Devour on lane creeps without acquiring any aura for the first 10 minutes of the game, or so.
[QUOTE=RaxaHax;38873536]Had someone in a game talk constantly over the mic the entire game. I didn't feel like muting him because he was sometimes useful (some communication better than none etc.).
But he would not stop talking about the only reason he was playing DOTA was because the HoN servers were down.
He called everything by its HoN name and wouldn't shut up about how he'd "rather be playing HOooooooooN"
But he was still better than me, god dammit.[/QUOTE]
I had one that called the hero he was playing by some LoL characters name(No idea if they play alike, quit when I got into the beta due to lol being boring to me), and kept going in like it was lol, constantly dying. God damn I'm happy that I managed to carry that game.
[editline]18th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;38874740]no he certainly isn't it, but you can easily jungle with him because you can insta-gib any hard camp creep with lvl1 Devour.
although i just spam Devour on lane creeps without acquiring any aura for the first 10 minutes of the game, or so.[/QUOTE]
I've been thinking about playing doom for a while now, what's a good item build for laning or jungling? like just the basic core, I can work out the situational stuff myself, played long enough for that :v:
I tried Doom today.
Not my character for sure. I get too carried away with farming
By the time I decided to walk out of the jungle we were losing our bottom rax.
Thats why i think Doom is a walking ult the first 30-40 mins of the game, then when he gets items he is really helpfull, hopefully this next patch will make him a bit more entertaining to play with.
[QUOTE=Crimor;38876765]I've been thinking about playing doom for a while now, what's a good item build for laning or jungling? like just the basic core, I can work out the situational stuff myself, played long enough for that :v:[/QUOTE]
Well, basic core items are Phase Boots; gives you a powerful melee attack PLUS the ability to travel between the ether.
(Boots of Travel are the only other good boots for him later if ever.)
Also Midas because you can rush it quite effortlessly with your Devour.
(Also, save LVL?? DEATH ability for later. You are probably going to need the hp regen/speed buff during your laning phase.)
Also Vanguard is listed as core, but it won't stop a someone like Clinkz from burning through your non-existent armor like butter, but a simple Stout Shield will work for the very early game at least.
Then Basilius or Magic Wand are kind of like core. Basilius can be built into Vlad's later which is good, and Magic Wand becomes near-useless later on.
Then you have to weigh the options between getting a early-enough Radiance, or just Assault Cuirass and Vlad's for pushing. Also not sure how good BKB is on him. Probably good.
[editline]18th December 2012[/editline]
But Shiva's and Assault Cuirass notably, they boost Lucifer's armor which is MUCH needed, without them you are quite fucking squishy.
So it's very risky to just rush Midas into Radiance and not caring about Armor. I once got incredibly early game farm but.. then I just died, and I lost.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
