[QUOTE=Jackald;35522697]I never understood the [sp]ai colonel rosemary shit at the end[/sp] even after mgs4. They seemingly just kind of dropped it.[/QUOTE]
Nanomachines.
Everything is nanomachines.
[QUOTE=Jackald;35522538]By the way, I played MGS2 when I was 8 never having played MGS1 and I understood most of the story, even most of the ending. I think people exaggerate how much of a mindfuck the MGS2 ending is. Sure, there's a lot of "WHATATWIST!!!" moments right next to each other, but it's not [I]that[/I] confusing.[/QUOTE]
The only reason I'd call it a mind fuck was because of how Arsenal hit Manhattan and we didn't get to see anything of that because Kojima had to edit it out due to 9/11. (sigh)
Everything else is easy to understand. Maybe Ocelot's arm, but that was never easy to figure out imo...
I like how Kojima realised that the whole Ocelot's arm thing was absolutely retarded and changed it in MGS4.
[QUOTE=judgeofdeath;35522717]The AI at the end of mgs2?
[sp]That's just one of the patriot AI's, namely GW. The reason they started going all bonkers is because Emma installed that worm/virus/whatever that was, which started destroying it from the inside. It turned out the colonel Raiden knew, wasn't the real one and Rosemary was a fake too, obviously.
[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]Rosemary was real at some point, but then they either kidnapped her, switched her codec contacts for the AI and let her loose in the end, or just hacked Raiden's codec at the end, blocked the real one and switched in the fake AI Rosemary.[/sp]
[editline]11th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Hakita;35523719]I like how Kojima realised that the whole Ocelot's arm thing was absolutely retarded and changed it in MGS4.[/QUOTE]
You mean... It was supposed to be like it was up until MGS2's ending?
Wow... Well... At least it would have saved me alot of "What the fuck, is it one or the other? what the hell is it with that thing?!"
MGS 2 "mystic" Liquid arm transplantation > MGS 4 "Nanomachienes/hypnosis/just-a-joke-to-fool-the-patriots" Liquid arm transplantation.
It also makes a lot more sense when you find out that Ocelot is [sp]the son of The Boss and The Sorrow. Probably granting him psychic power and explaining why battle thrills him so much.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;35522718]Nanomachines.
Everything is nanomachines.[/QUOTE]
Nanomachines were invented by nanomachines.
[QUOTE=Jackald;35524229]Nanomachines made the patriots. But who made the nanomachines? It was the nanopatriotmachines.[/QUOTE]
No.
The nanomachines made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made the nanomachines that made Hideo Kojima.
[QUOTE=En-Guage V2;35520875]you can get mice for 360?
Why would anyone buy one
[editline]11th April 2012[/editline]
also I've never played a metal gear game at all, I don't really feel like downloading MGS1 and playing through it before I get to try MGS2, MGS3 or Peace walker
How fucked am I? I know I asked this before, but I just read through the manual and it gave me a pretty good overview (eg snake goes fights big boss, wins, goes and fights other bad guys, stops metal gears, stops the apocalypse etc)[/QUOTE]
You should play through MGS1 first, it's a masterpiece. The plot is fantastic and unlike the sequels it doesn't go batshit insane at any point.
That there are jokes about the Nanomachines when it should be about the Patriots, just proves that some people are too simple and thick to follow an extremely complicated plot.
Don't jump in from MGS4 and tell us the plot is stupid. You're stupid for skipping to the last chapter, Sport!
[editline]11th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;35524554]You should play through MGS1 first, it's a masterpiece. The plot is fantastic and unlike the sequels it doesn't go batshit insane at any point.[/QUOTE]
None of them went insane. People are just generally too stupid to process information when it comes in huge concentration.
[QUOTE=The_Volcom;35523872]MGS 2 "mystic" Liquid arm transplantation > MGS 4 "Nanomachienes/hypnosis/just-a-joke-to-fool-the-patriots" Liquid arm transplantation.
It also makes a lot more sense when you find out that Ocelot is [sp]the son of The Boss and The Sorrow. Probably granting him psychic power and explaining why battle thrills him so much.[/sp][/QUOTE]
Remembering that, I find the times they were together in MGS3 really cute. She wasn't aware of that was she?
[editline]11th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jackald;35524068]Everything psychic or supernatural from the series got turned into "IT WAS NANOMACHINES" in MGS4. Even vamp's bullshit turned into nanomachines.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I guess nanomachines are the "augmentations" of the MGS world, just like augmentations are the special point around Deus Ex titles.
Imo, theres a difference though. While in Deus Ex, everything is wide open (augmentations are the talk of the day, every day) and you get to use them every time, in MGS, the use of nanomachines isn't really exposed.
"Oh my god whats happening to me?"
"Nanomachines are doing that."
The characters just mention them at times, which makes me think everything else about the game overshadows the "importance" of nanomachines throughout the MGS series, while in Deus Ex, its clearly the center of attention, since everything revolves around augmentations.
MGS could blame everything on the supernatural if it weren't for nanomachines.
[editline]11th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bomimo;35524619]That there are jokes about the Nanomachines when it should be about the Patriots, just proves that some people are too simple and thick to follow an extremely complicated plot.
Don't jump in from MGS4 and tell us the plot is stupid. You're stupid for skipping to the last chapter, Sport!
[editline]11th April 2012[/editline]
None of them went insane. People are just generally too stupid to process information when it comes in huge concentration.[/QUOTE]
I sort of agree (90% :v:) but settle down, not everyone gets to it fast enough.
I think people just don't understand the plot entirely.
As I said, its just like Deus Ex.
"How did this happen?" "LOL AUGS"
As simple as that. And MGS4 made extremely clear that nanomachines are actually a very important factor in the whole game.
MGS was never about nanomachines. Snake had them in MGS1 and did you see him backflipping in order to avoid missels? [sp]TWINSNAKE lol[/sp]
The were used to administer snakes bodyfunctions aswell as recharge the batteries for his communication device.
Same with MGS2 and raiden, vamp was just a mystic figure, just like raven.
MGS4 is trying to pull threads together that were never desinged to have an end. People wanted anwers and got nanomachienes.
[QUOTE=The_Volcom;35525724]MGS was never about nanomachines. Snake had them in MGS1 and did you see him backflipping in order to avoid missels? [sp]TWINSNAKE lol[/sp]
The were used to administer snakes bodyfunctions aswell as recharge the batteries for his communication device.
Same with MGS2 and raiden, vamp was just a mystic figure, just like raven.
MGS4 is trying to pull threads together that were never desinged to have an end. People wanted anwers and got nanomachienes.[/QUOTE]
Actually, MGS was where the whole thing started... And please don't count with the remake... It was complete bullshit and the only part that was actually sane and sort of fitting was with Gray Fox on the corridor.
[sp]Thanks to the nanomachines injected by Naomie, the DARPA chief (in reality, Decoy Octopus) and the Arms Tech president died, because they contained a virus, that intended to kill them along with Liquid. Foxdie. The same virus that would shorten Snake's life and kill him.[/sp]
Thats where nanomachines started being a big thing. People just didn't realised it.
Its just like augs in Deus Ex. They evolved into nanoaugmentations, just like nanomachines went from "small things" such as nutrient administration to rapid healing and soldier manipulation and monitoring.
Vamp also had the same thing.
Why is it so hard to believe in nanomachines but not in augs?
Kinda stupid they tried to cover up Vamp's immortality using nanomachines, there still are plenty of other supernatural instances in the series. MGS3 is full of them, I still don't get how Volgin channels lightning. And you got the part with Fortune at the end of MGS2 when she [sp]changes the trajectory of ray's missiles, without her bullet moving MacGuffin[/sp]
But other than Vamp, what other question did they answer with nanomachines in MGS4? (other than the valid ones)
[QUOTE=Bomimo;35524619]That there are jokes about the Nanomachines when it should be about the Patriots, just proves that some people are too simple and thick to follow an extremely complicated plot.
Don't jump in from MGS4 and tell us the plot is stupid. You're stupid for skipping to the last chapter, Sport!
[editline]11th April 2012[/editline]
None of them went insane. People are just generally too stupid to process information when it comes in huge concentration.[/QUOTE]
I understand all of the games well, but MGS2 is pretty crazy. There's [sp]a mysterious organisation running America sending the ex-apprentice of their enemy to fight him on an oil clean-up facility which is actually just camouflage for the fortress housing AI controlled giant robots underneath. Also the protagonist repressed his memories of being a child soldier, met his girlfriend due to the will of the super secret organisation, and was under orders of an AI based on his expectations of Roy Campbell. Oh, and the whole thing was supposed to mimic a similar incident from four years ago.[/sp] Not to mention [sp]an immortal bisexual vampire dancer who can run on water.[/sp]
By the way dass, [sp]FoxDie didn't shorten snake's life. It was mutating and was gonna start killing non-targets too. It was because he's a clone that he started aging rapidly.[/sp]
[QUOTE=judgeofdeath;35526082]By the way dass, [sp]FoxDie didn't shorten snake's life. It was mutating and was gonna start killing non-targets too. It was because he's a clone that he started aging rapidly.[/sp][/QUOTE]
Always confuse those :/ ...
He started aging rapidly because [sp]of the imperfect cloning procedures right? Liquid mentioned it I think, something like some mistake in "dad's genes" or whatever...[/sp]
[QUOTE=dass;35526163]Always confuse those :/ ...
He started aging rapidly because [sp]of the imperfect cloning procedures right? Liquid mentioned it I think, something like some mistake in "dad's genes" or whatever...[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]No, it was deliberate. I think the explenation was that if he would side with the wrong people or something, he would die relatively quickly.[/sp]
I think Naomi mentioned it in MGS4, not really sure.
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;35526070]I understand all of the games well, but MGS2 is pretty crazy. There's [sp]a mysterious organisation running America sending the ex-apprentice of their enemy to fight him on an oil clean-up facility which is actually just camouflage for the fortress housing AI controlled giant robots underneath. Also the protagonist repressed his memories of being a child soldier, met his girlfriend due to the will of the super secret organisation, and was under orders of an AI based on his expectations of Roy Campbell. Oh, and the whole thing was supposed to mimic a similar incident from four years ago.[/sp] Not to mention [sp]an immortal bisexual vampire dancer who can run on water.[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]The Patriots, a group designed by Zero, constituted by AIs so that they would "rule" humanity forever, that sent Raiden (Solidus adoptive son) to fight him because of their relation. They did that to mimic the relation between Snake and Big Boss, and how both were monsters. I guess the Plant thing was also to mimic Shadow Moses and REX... They started doing experiences on him [Raiden] to repress his memories of when he was a soldier, and sent Rose as a spy, which she fit the role perfectly because they knew what Raiden liked in a woman.
Vamp was nanomachines all the way, I guess...[/sp]
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;35526070]I understand all of the games well, but MGS2 is pretty crazy. There's [sp]a mysterious organisation running America sending the ex-apprentice of their enemy to fight him on an oil clean-up facility which is actually just camouflage for the fortress housing AI controlled giant robots underneath. Also the protagonist repressed his memories of being a child soldier, met his girlfriend due to the will of the super secret organisation, and was under orders of an AI based on his expectations of Roy Campbell. Oh, and the whole thing was supposed to mimic a similar incident from four years ago.[/sp] Not to mention [sp]an immortal bisexual vampire dancer who can run on water.[/sp][/QUOTE]
All of which is explained in MGS4 and 3. Nothing was ever crazy in the grand scheme of things. Apart from being Sci-Fi, everything ties together. MGS2 just lets you view it from the perspective of an ignorant grunt. MGS4 educates you on that by talking to the woman that caused it all. the "Organization" is also explained in the MGS2 ending and finally totally brought back within reasonably comprehendable range in MGS4.
Yeah, supernatural runs throughout the series. But in MGS3, they're supposed to be genuine, while in the Solid Snake saga, all of the bosses are attempts at mimicking the circumstances that made big boss. Including the abilities. Dead Cell's powers are all technological imitations of The Cobras, of which Foxhound in MGS1 were also imitations. the B&B corps did away with attempting to shape a soldier into Big Boss, but rather shape a crew into a new set of Cobra's under total mental control. Again with Technological imitations of the original instance of supernatural powers.
The only members of these groups who already had some of their powers before they were technologically manipulated were the Psychics. Crying and Psycho Mantis both were originally psychics. Mantis was to imitate the Sorrow and Crying was to imitate Psycho.
It's all very easy to comprehend if you stop to think for a few minutes really. I've been onto this ever since MGS3 was released. The only thing we really don't know here was if The Cobra's were supernatural by nature or if they were also indeed made by science and circumstance. It's implied that The Boss and Big Boss both were subjects to Radiation exposure. But that's all i know. Volgin, The End, The Fear and The Sorrow are unknowns that a potential Cobra prequel that isn't a Monster Hunter clone PSP game, could explain.
Oh god, Kojima. Give me a stealth console/PC game again. Don't do those collectatons. They're boring as fuck.
But what were the powers of The Boss and Big Boss? They seemed pretty ordinary, counting out the fact that they were perfect soldiers. Perfect completely natural soldiers though.
The Cobras kind of sound like the "somewhat not really average" circus freaks...
The Pain had his wasps and hornets and in the end, that bee explosion...
The Fear had that weird way to move around and leap from tree to tree and some way to cloak (even though there was no cloaking tech back then), and in the end, that arrow explosion, which was freaky as hell...
The Sorrow is actually the most normal of the bunch in what comes to abilities, because he had ESP and could talk to ghosts. Doesn't makes him less freaky, but you know... Lots of people who claim to have it and so on. Kind of makes his abilities the most common, even though they aren't (I bet I confused everyone with this)
The Fury had that explosion which was weird as fuck, doubt a pyromaniac would have been able to do that...
Volgin seems to have been hit with lightning several times, granting him electric handling capabilities, which actually wasn't that special since he needed to recharge, just like how he did it inside his fight with Big Boss.
The only characters I know that find having truly weird powers were the original Cobras, Psycho Mantis, Raiden (he could deflect bullets with a blade, without any exoskeleton armor powering him up), Vulcan Raven (being eaten "alive" by crows and carrying a HUGE FUCKING MINIGUN) and there must be a few more that I forgot.
But all the rest seem to be technologically recreated to act that way.
(mind you, I'm talking about MGS 1 to 4, as I haven't played any others, sadly)
The power of Big Boss is probably being able to use the continue button when he dies.
[QUOTE=judgeofdeath;35527781]The power of Big Boss is probably being able to use the continue button when he dies.[/QUOTE]
The power of The Boss and Big Boss is just being much more than just well trained soldiers. He's got a monumentally high IQ and good physical condition. Their combat techniques are also years ahead of the rest of the worlds soldiers as well. It's a combo of being the ideal human and actively setting themselves apart too.
With Liquid and Solid, they were not just raw clones of Big Boss. They both have 160 IQ and are physically enginered. The Genome soldiers from MGS1 are just like them, but with less upsides. Liquid was a pool of all of Big Boss' good traits (in the eyes of Zero, that is), which makes him the perfect "yes man" super soldier. I mean, even when he goes "Fuck No", he's doing what was wanted from him.
Solid on the other hand is a "Yes man" who has to be manipulated to say "Fuck no" for them to get him to do what they want. hence the initial guises of each mission.
When it comes to jumping on missiles in Twin Snakes and outrunning a gattling gun and so on. This is meant to be THE canon version of MGS1. A lot of errors in the original were fixed and a bit of action was sprinkled all over the place to underline the fact that he's more than Big Boss was and Big Boss was fucking "LEGEND BRO". I mean, comeon. You blindly believe that he fought Grey Fox in a minefield barehanded, yet you won't believe this? We're also talking about a man who jumps in the fucking sea in an attempt to swim after a Metal Gear Ray.
What it really comes down to was that MGS1 was held back by its system, so they couldn't really execute the showoff moments. If we really look at it, Big Boss does nothing but out gun and own Ocelot in MGS3, while showing off.
As i said, not much is known about Big Boss and The Boss, beyond them both being the ideal soldier. All we know is "lol radiation" and that might not have had any impact beyond sterilization on both. (this was after Ocelot's birth.)
Separately. My biggest gripe with the series is that in MGS1, Snake is established as a firm character. In MGS2, he's idolized and established as a strongwilled, confident character who's not afraid of going against the odds. "Immortal huh? Let's put that to the test." He's mentoring Raiden and by extension, you. Just as he mentored Otacon. In MGS4 he just turns into a coughing mute that never shares his assessment of any individuals (IE his analysis of Dead Cell) or situations (Strut 1-2 bridge, Bomb defusal, Emma's survival, Arsenal.) He shows no cunning at all. No exploitation of circumstances (Mr. X MGS2). in MGS4, we're just being lead by the nose all of the way, being constantly reactive instead of Proactive. We never intercept, we always just follow behind. I know he's old and worn out, but he should still be sharp. It's like it's more of a third snake character rather than Solid Snake. I don't know how else to put it.
Simplified, it's:
In MGS1, we're told stuff by others and he tells them something too.
In MGS2, He receives descriptive information from us and gives us a deep analysis in return.
In MGS4, everyone else tells us something while Snake just grunts and coughs.
Following up from MGS3 where Big Boss constantly has glimpses in his eyes and is encouraged to come up with ideas himself, this is a major step back IMO.
I will forever refuse to aknowledge Twin Snakes.
Call me whatever you want, Snake riding a missile is pure BOLLOCKS.
And yeah, Snake looks more like the war vet senior citizen stereotype than anything else in 4.
I don't quite LIKE LIKE <3 KAWAII DESU DESU (extremely like) MGS4 like the others because of that. Its such a downer to see Snake all old and decayed :'(
I think snake being downplayed was because of his rapid aging. Physically he still kicks ass, but with the only prospect of dying really soon, you wouldn't blame him for becoming all depressed and pessimistic.
I think it was a way to make us more invested in the game, to feel sorry for him, completely beat down, physically and psychologically.
[QUOTE=Bomimo;35527499]All of which is explained in MGS4 and 3. Nothing was ever crazy in the grand scheme of things. Apart from being Sci-Fi, everything ties together. MGS2 just lets you view it from the perspective of an ignorant grunt. MGS4 educates you on that by talking to the woman that caused it all. the "Organization" is also explained in the MGS2 ending and finally totally brought back within reasonably comprehendable range in MGS4.
Yeah, supernatural runs throughout the series. But in MGS3, they're supposed to be genuine, while in the Solid Snake saga, all of the bosses are attempts at mimicking the circumstances that made big boss. Including the abilities. Dead Cell's powers are all technological imitations of The Cobras, of which Foxhound in MGS1 were also imitations. the B&B corps did away with attempting to shape a soldier into Big Boss, but rather shape a crew into a new set of Cobra's under total mental control. Again with Technological imitations of the original instance of supernatural powers.
The only members of these groups who already had some of their powers before they were technologically manipulated were the Psychics. Crying and Psycho Mantis both were originally psychics. Mantis was to imitate the Sorrow and Crying was to imitate Psycho.
It's all very easy to comprehend if you stop to think for a few minutes really. I've been onto this ever since MGS3 was released. The only thing we really don't know here was if The Cobra's were supernatural by nature or if they were also indeed made by science and circumstance. It's implied that The Boss and Big Boss both were subjects to Radiation exposure. But that's all i know. Volgin, The End, The Fear and The Sorrow are unknowns that a potential Cobra prequel that isn't a Monster Hunter clone PSP game, could explain.
Oh god, Kojima. Give me a stealth console/PC game again. Don't do those collectatons. They're boring as fuck.[/QUOTE]
So basically, you ignored what I said was batshit insane except for the last bit and said it can't be insane because it's explained in the sequel, then went on to tell me why the elements of the supernatural aren't crazy [I]even if they're caused by tiny machines in people's blood.[/I] They don't explain how Vamp can swim through some weird water that sucks you down, run on it, or up walls. Even so, just because something's explainable doesn't mean it isn't crazy.
And since when was Twin Snakes the canon version of MGS1?
I think I also say "I think" alot.
I think.
[editline]12th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;35531002]So basically, you ignored what I said was batshit insane except for the last bit and said it can't be insane because it's explained in the sequel, then went on to tell me why the elements of the supernatural aren't crazy [I]even if they're caused by tiny machines in people's blood.[/I] They don't explain how Vamp can swim through some weird water that sucks you down, run on it, or up walls. Even so, just because something's explainable doesn't mean it isn't crazy.
And since when was Twin Snakes the canon version of MGS1?[/QUOTE]
He did say "nothing was ever crazy in the [b]grand scheme of things[/b]".
And not everything needs explanation, as I said before, the Vamp stuff is just silly.
[QUOTE=judgeofdeath;35531003]I think I also say "I think" alot.
I think.
[editline]12th April 2012[/editline]
He did say "nothing was ever crazy in the [b]grand scheme of things[/b]".
And not everything needs explanation, as I said before, the Vamp stuff is just silly.[/QUOTE]
I never said everything needs explanation, what I'm saying is explanation or not it's still crazy. Either you've got a guy who can get shot in the forehead and live because he's got superpowers, or you've got a guy who can get shot in the forehead and live because [sp]tiny machines in his blood make him heal super fast.[/sp] That's something small and crazy. As for the grand scheme of things, the bulk of MGS2's plot was [sp]planned by a secret organisation which aimed to manipulate everything that happens in the world by seeing if they can replicate the events of the previous game.[/sp]
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