I just like to pretend that Race X were Combine Scouts :v:
The thing is that Race X, Gonomes, and other OP exclusive enemies were only added by Gearbox to toy around with gameplay and could easily be replaced by regular Xen enemies in most cases. While I don't really agree with adding Houndeyes and Bullsquids in HL2, I have to concede they are very representative of the HL experience. Early builds of HL2 also planned to include them, which makes it less of a stretch to add them in. This is not the case of Gonomes. We don't even know if they are considered canon by valve.
While I'm supportive of Bullsquids and Houndeyes, I don't particularly feel that Race X or Gonomes should appear in HL2EM. Sure it won't ruin the game for me, but I still they just aren't appropriate for the setting.
Then we can just make 2 versions of the Ravenholm Maps: 1 with the Gonomes, and one without
I guarantee the one with Gonomes would be downloaded more
An extra enemy with a bit more health and a ranged, slow, spit attack will not make someone go
"TOO HARD, FUCK YOU FAT CORGI"
I think they are appropriate. Canon dictates they [I]should[/I] be there.
I feel that people are compromising a quite possibly fun gameplay for the sake of canon, Gonomes are a potentially valuable gameplay element if used right, they simply add more variation to the currently bland Ravenholm. I don't see how adding it can do any harm, if any thing only good will come from it. Race X however, I am a bit iffy. While I don't think they are the most important thing for gameplay or story, if added and used correctly I can't see me enjoying the game any less.
I am extremely glad that Race X has zero chance of being added
THEY wouldn't work in the game at all
[QUOTE=ojcoolj;39679645]Then we can just make 2 versions of the Ravenholm Maps: 1 with the Gonomes, and one without
I guarantee the one with Gonomes would be downloaded more
An extra enemy with a bit more health and a ranged, slow, spit attack will not make someone go
"TOO HARD, FUCK YOU FAT CORGI"
I think they are appropriate. Canon dictates they [I]should[/I] be there.[/QUOTE]
Why not just fall back on the old suggestion of being able to disable certain enemies to keep them from appearing? Perhaps it could be toggleable somehow. From my tests I've already gathered that removing an npc has no adverse effects on the map, aside from scripted sequences that they take part in not playing out correctly (or at all), which is correctable by involving them in scripted sequences mandatory for progression. Then everybody gets to be happy, except perhaps the guy who would have to code that, unless he really enjoys coding.
Sorry for the Anti-Gonome party, but I think it's safe to say he [I]will[/I] add it
He wants it, we want it
If you don't like it, they could just add an option to toggle new enemies, like above.
But I still think you could just learn to adapt for an enemy that's basically a stronger zombie
I can't see any negativity in gameplay from that, it could be terrifying if done right
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;39679711]Why not just fall back on the old suggestion of being able to disable certain enemies to keep them from appearing? Perhaps it could be toggleable somehow. From my tests I've already gathered that removing an npc has no adverse effects on the map, aside from scripted sequences that they take part in not playing out correctly (or at all), which is correctable by involving them in scripted sequences mandatory for progression. Then everybody gets to be happy, except perhaps the guy who would have to code that, unless he really enjoys coding.[/QUOTE]
There you go, the solution for those of you that don't want the new enemies and weapon- just delete the files.
79 new posts about people raging about adding or not the Gonome.
My suggestion: Move along, there are more important things to fix and improve. There will be later time to discuss about this things.
[SUB](yes, i´m a Gonome fan, but putting him inside Ravenholm without changing the maps is a bad idea).[/SUB]
we better be careful not to put too much attention on the genome. fakefactory put too much attention on alyx, and look what happened
[IMG]http://www.gamesaktuell.de/screenshots/667x375/2011/04/cinematic-mod-1098-screens-alyx-002.jpg[/IMG]
if you put too much attention on the genome, it could look like this: [IMG]http://officialpsds.com/images/thumbs/zombie-woman-psd53172.png[/IMG]
So lets just stray away from the genome for now, shall we?
I think clever zombie placement would do a much better job at improving gameplay than just scattering what basically amounts to zombies with more health around the map. I don't really get the fascination the Gonome is gathering, and I guess modellers are already quite busy with the task at hand without having to add stuff that wasn't even there in the first place. At least there's still the possibility of deleting the files, but all the work that will be wasted in this gimmick could be used for more experience-enhancing initiatives, such as zombie, rebels or citizen bodygroups.
[QUOTE=Dictator Dean;39680648]we better be careful not to put too much attention on the genome. fakefactory put too much attention on alyx, and look what happened
[IMG]http://www.gamesaktuell.de/screenshots/667x375/2011/04/cinematic-mod-1098-screens-alyx-002.jpg[/IMG]
if you put too much attention on the genome, it could look like this: [IMG]http://officialpsds.com/images/thumbs/zombie-woman-psd53172.png[/IMG]
So lets just stray away from the genome for now, shall we?[/QUOTE]
That's not even close to what a genome is anyway.
[B]But is there really any space in the game for bullsquids and houndeyes? [/B]
I know some you may suggest the canals and the coast, but let's examine those options a bit more thoroughly:
[B]1. Route Kanal:[/B]
Lots of enclosed spaces where these voracious beasts have no proper living space (Remember also that they've been living there for like two decades), and food seems infrequent.
The combine patrol these areas, and since these locations are so close to - or possibly even within - the populated part of the city, they would have been wiped out for posing a threat (and these creatures aren't exactly hard to miss). The presence of headcrabs, zombies, and barnacles make sense, as the first are used as biological weapons and are able to escape attention due their small size and their burrowing ability, the second are a natural result of the presence of the former, and the last reside mainly in dark ceilings.
Let's throw in the rebels and the underground railroad, and their presence becomes even more unlikely. Everywhere you look there are rebel outposts, doors these creatures can't open, vents they can't crawl through, high canal walls they can't ascend or descend, and so forth.
You already have metrocops, explosive barrels dropped on you by metrocops, the helicopter, headcrabs and zombies, barnacles, and manhacks. If you possibly somehow sneaked in a few bullsquids or houndeyes somewhere, would they really provide a gameplay mechanic as fully realised as those? If they can't, they're just a third wheel.
[B]2. Water Hazard:[/B]
There is more living space than in Route Kanal, so that's good. However, the presence of both abandoned/destroyed and active rebel outposts rules out some locations. Oh, and there's the CP outposts too.
The primary problem here would be that I kind of doubt that these creatures would be much fun to fight whilst using the airboat. First of all, their ragdolls would be kind of large and bulbous, so driving over a houndeye or especially a bullsquid would cause the airboat to halt in an annoying way. The shockwave attack would be ineffective against a driving player (The player comes close to a houndeye, the houndeye prepares it's attack, the player is already gone), so houndeyes would fail to provide an interesting extra gameplay element. The bullsquid spit attack is best avoided by horizontal movement (strafing), and this is the very thing that is hard to do while driving. They bullsquids would thus end up being very frustrating in this section.
Now you might be thinking that you could include them in some of the non-driving parts of the chapter (like when returning from the two door opening detours), but it would seem very tacky to have them appear only in those situations and almost nowhere else.
You already have metrocops, metrocops dropping on you from above, the helicopter, the APCs, and barnacles. If you sneaked in merely a few random bullsquids or houndeyes somewhere, would they really provide a gameplay mechanic as fully realised as those? If they can't, they're just a third wheel.
[B]3. The Coast levels:[/B]
Again, there are rebel and combine outposts everywhere, which severely limit their movement and survival possibilities along with (again) the enclosed spaces. Then there's the antlions.
The ragdoll and spit attack problems would again be present as well since this too is a driving section.
You already have combine soldiers, gunships, antlions, headcrabs and zombies, and rollermines. Would a random bullsquid/houndeye thrown in somewhere really be as fully realised as a gameplay mechanic as those? If that can't be accomplished, they're just a third wheel.
----------------
[B]Summary:[/B] You could possibly sneak in one or two houndeyes or bullsquids somewhere, but just having a few somewhere does NOT justify their presence in the game. It's okay to encounter a stronger boss-like enemy on rare occasions, but these relatively harmless critters need to be encountered much more often to be a truly satisfying part of the game. If you have an enemy in a game, you must be able utilise it to it's full potential. Otherwise it will just seem like feature creep.
[B]So I will vote for a resounding NO to their appearance, however much fondness I may have for them. Please don't include them![/B]
[QUOTE=SFC003;39680747]That's not even close to what a genome is anyway.[/QUOTE] [highlight][B][I][U]Still, we must have EXTREME CAUTION. [/U][/I][/B][/highlight]
[QUOTE=Dictator Dean;39680648]we better be careful not to put too much attention on the genome. fakefactory put too much attention on alyx, and look what happened
[IMG]http://www.gamesaktuell.de/screenshots/667x375/2011/04/cinematic-mod-1098-screens-alyx-002.jpg[/IMG]
if you put too much attention on the genome, it could look like this: [IMG]http://officialpsds.com/images/thumbs/zombie-woman-psd53172.png[/IMG]
So lets just stray away from the genome for now, shall we?[/QUOTE]
FF didn't get that Alyx because he put too much attention into her.
He got that Alyx because he's a freaky perv.
[QUOTE=Dictator Dean;39680846][highlight][B][I][U]Still, we must have EXTREME CAUTION. [/U][/I][/B][/highlight][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Dictator Dean]Genome[/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS-x2vPsodde9-jBW56bqQ5zeEgTYFioXurzTEwmEmXU_btXVbV[/IMG]
BEWARE
[QUOTE=juhana;39680774]-long post-[/QUOTE]
You put quite a bit of thought into this, though you missed some things, for instance, you forgot that later in the game, (I forgot what chapter it's in), there are more sewer levels. In those, they make perfect sense to be there, especially in that pit where you fight all the zombies, how about, since the zombies have already been kinda over used, add 2 or 3 bullsquids in there? Or in some of the earlier and later parts of that level, add some more bullsquids (but not too many). Especially in the new secret areas that will be added to the levels.
Water Hazard makes sense to still have them imo, just not in the areas you've stated. The coast levels (I don't know why you put those in the list) don't make sense for them. Route Kanal is mostly too cluttered to add any bullsquids, but one could be added in one of the new secret areas.
As for Houndeyes, I've already written about how I would like to implement them, which I think makes a lot of sense:
[QUOTE=Fat-Corgi-Guy -from V1 thread;39679766]Ok, so I had an idea of how to implement the Hound Eyes into HL2-
There would be a few wild ones, that are pretty skinny and bony, like the original concept art for the cut HL2 Hound Eyes, then there would be more well-fed ones, that had Combine implants, similar to the ones put on the Vorts seen in such areas as the train station. The Combine would use the Hound Eyes to track you down, I'm thinking mostly adding these in Nova Prospect as "guard dogs" and in a few areas in the streets of City 17 (maybe having them on some sort of leash, and sitting next to a Metrocop, straining to get at the people that walk by), and the Street Wars (Where they run around and try and track you down and kill you).
Then, somewhere in the street wars levels, introduce a new kind of Hound Eye, ones who's implants have malfunctioned and are sparking alot, they run at you, rebels, or Combine, and explode on impact, making them kamikaze Hound Eyes.
What do you guys think?
Also, if you guys have better ideas on how to implement Hound Eyes, or some of the other cut enemies, or enemies from HL1, such as Bull Squids, Crab Synths, ect. I'd love to hear them.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Fat-Corgi-Guy;39681230]A long post.[/QUOTE]
I like the idea to have multiple Houndeyes, since it adds variety to the game which, let's be honest, has gotten a bit stale over the years.
I'm curious, though. What about this creature:
[thumb]https://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/images/thumb/5/5d/Ichy.jpg/250px-Ichy.jpg[/thumb]
It was in a few parts in HL1 as an actual enemy, but only in HL2 as eye candy. Can anything be done to restore it's rank of "actual enemy"?
Sorry if I've missed a previous discussion about this before. I haven't been able to follow the thread very closely.
[QUOTE=mySvenLabs;39681384]
I'm curious, though. What about this creature:
[thumb]https://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/images/thumb/5/5d/Ichy.jpg/250px-Ichy.jpg[/thumb]
It was in a few parts in HL1 as an actual enemy, but only in HL2 as eye candy. Can anything be done to restore it's rank of "actual enemy"?
Sorry if I've missed a previous discussion about this before. I haven't been able to follow the thread very closely.[/QUOTE]
Maybe, I can't think of too many places to put it though, it wouldn't really fit in the canals, but it could replace the leeches in the waters on the coast. Kinda make it like the sharks in Crysis, if you swim out too far, then they relentlessly attack you until you're dead to keep you from going to the edges of the map.
That sounds [I]way[/I] better than anything leeches could offer.
[QUOTE=_Axel;39679486]The thing is that Race X, Gonomes, and other OP exclusive enemies were only added by Gearbox to toy around with gameplay and could easily be replaced by regular Xen enemies in most cases. While I don't really agree with adding Houndeyes and Bullsquids in HL2, I have to concede they are very representative of the HL experience. Early builds of HL2 also planned to include them, which makes it less of a stretch to add them in. This is not the case of Gonomes. We don't even know if they are considered canon by valve.[/QUOTE]
The enemies added in opposing force were developed by Gearbox to produce gameplay they they already new how to develop. Such as how the Voltigore bombards from range doing massive damage in a large area, but it is relatively easy to take down because it's predictable.
For example Pit Drones attack from range to force the player into cover, when in cover the sprint forwards and slash at the player, disorientating their view and causing them to spray wildly.
Laidlaw has stated:
[QUOTE]Race X was purely a Gearbox creation that doesn't figure at all in my thinking about the world. Understand, they wanted to come up with a set of creatures that would create gameplay they knew how to make. They could have been making an original title or an add-on for some other franchise, and plugged racex into that--the reason being that they had gameplay they wanted to explore and needed the freedom of their own race of critters to conduct those experiments with. If Gearbox had kept making HL games, I suppose we might have seen these threads develop.[/QUOTE]
Houndeyes and Bullsquids fit into the HL2 canon, especially in the wasteland and canal areas, Civil Protection exists for the main reason of killing such creatures as they encroach into the city.
Gonomes do not really fit in Ravenholm, simply because they throw a ranged attack (Grigori would have noticed this and dispatched them very quickly for starters.) you also have to remember the Combine have been breeding Headcrabs for the purpose of shelling Rebel occupied areas, it's entirely possible that the Combine have disabled such genetic features that allow for growth into a Gonome since they shell the player with both Classic, and Fast crabs. (I can't remember if they also shell the player with poison ones.)
Gameplay can be modified at the base level, don't add new enemies because that would require extensive modification of existing maps to support the new gameplay you're developing.
If "Zombies are too easy/predictable" make them less so. Have them burst out of closets or from behind boxes of crates, have them spawn in dark areas and stay silent until noticed by the player, edit the maps to lead the player into more close counters, with less physical objects to use and less ammo.
Hell you could even add basic modifications to allow them to lurch and stagger faster towards a player much in the same way they grab Alyx in Episode 1.
Suddenly zombies are dangerous!
Don't fill this mod with silly stuff, you're enhancing Half-Life 2. Utilise what we know about HL2's universe instead of trying to bring back old stuff.
[editline]22nd February 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=xalener;39681443]That sounds [I]way[/I] better than anything leeches could offer.[/QUOTE]
Ichthyosaur was replaced by Leeches because play testers found it annoying, especially because they couldn't kill it and it took them too long to die/it to get to them. So they usually didn't get the message they weren't meant to be in the water very quickly.
Why not just solve this dressing alyx problem by making her fully naked full time. That way there's no clothes for anyone to bitch about.
Since you're on the alien swarm engine, and Alien Swarm had a director feature, could you possibly add some random locations for spawns so the I can't predict every zombie? Not for everything, in some places it'd be nice to see some variety in where they're coming from. Or even a bit of adaptive gameplay if that's not too much.
[QUOTE=Cows Rule;39681571]Since you're on the alien swarm engine, and Alien Swarm had a director feature, could you possibly add some random locations for spawns so the I can't predict every zombie? Not for everything, in some places it'd be nice to see some variety in where they're coming from. Or even a bit of adaptive gameplay if that's not too much.[/QUOTE]
I'd like to see this for antlions as well.
I've wanted the director to have some control over the Combine soldiers as well but I can't imagine that working very well. Maybe if it was activated for very few select battles but otherwise...
[QUOTE=Fat-Corgi-Guy;39681426]Maybe, I can't think of too many places to put it though, it wouldn't really fit in the canals, but it could replace the leeches in the waters on the coast. Kinda make it like the sharks in Crysis, if you swim out too far, then they relentlessly attack you until you're dead to keep you from going to the edges of the map.[/QUOTE]
That's what they kind of had planned for HL2
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHkUqr5Jy8E[/media]
dunno why they replaced them with lame leeches.
[QUOTE=FpShepard;39681760]
dunno why they replaced them with lame leeches.[/QUOTE]
My guess?
Leeches can be put everywhere in the area, to make a wall of death. They're cheap and do the job.
The Icky is a single, large, npc that needs to get close enough to the player to do damage. As it is right now it needs nodes to even move (although Gmod has an addon that fixes that I think, it could be replicated).
I would love to see it in action, as an enemy again, but I can understand why Valve would opt for leeches. It's easier.
The ichy in BM is also the Hl2 Ichy AFAIK. Its the same model, probably modded code.
[QUOTE=Tuskin;39681879]The ichy in BM is also the Hl2 Ichy AFAIK. Its the same model, probably modded code.[/QUOTE]
It isn't surprising considering how much BM used HL2 assets (Crowbar, Magnum, Headcrab, etc)
[QUOTE=Tuskin;39681879]The ichy in BM is also the Hl2 Ichy AFAIK. Its the same model, probably modded code.[/QUOTE]
Not exactly, they enlarged the tail of the model and changed some general scaling.
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