Missing Aghanim's Scepter Upgrades - Games

[QUOTE=dual elites;39450198]i'd like icefrog to revert shadow fiend's ultimate on death then add it again as a scepter upgrade[/QUOTE] And return Fiend to slightly sub par? I think he should have a scepter that lets him have 10 more max souls or something.

[QUOTE=Tokagero;39447438]What for ? Track pierces magic immunity already, you could just apply it to invisible enemy hero when you get a glimpse of him. +Track debuff is a bit obvious notification, so if they'd see Gondar with Agha noone would walk near their wards/invisible allies while tracked. 4200 gold remember.[/QUOTE] Which means it's easier to separate them from most of the group. And in a teamfight, you could just immediately track one of the enemies and you won't have to worry as much about a Riki popping out of nowhere and slicing you.

[QUOTE=Rarara;39451693]And return Fiend to slightly sub par? I think he should have a scepter that lets him have 10 more max souls or something.[/QUOTE] 4200 gold for 20 damage seems a bit unfair. It would be more productive and cheaper to get Maelstrom if you [I]really[/I] want 20 damage. A person I know said that, instead of straight lines, it should spiral outwards, so it has a chance of hitting people multiple times.

[QUOTE=Shibbey;39453159]4200 gold for 20 damage seems a bit unfair. It would be more productive and cheaper to get Maelstrom if you [I]really[/I] want 20 damage. A person I know said that, instead of straight lines, it should spiral outwards, so it has a chance of hitting people multiple times.[/QUOTE] It also makes necromastery deal 320 more damage (Or more, I dunno how the hitboxes work) if you are fairly close to your target.

What if SD's ult had an AoE when the damage went off? Something like 400. It'd be great to put on a carry and make everyone disperse.

[QUOTE=Unisath;39456842]What if SD's ult had an AoE when the damage went off? Something like 400. It'd be great to put on a carry and make everyone disperse.[/QUOTE] Yeah, like Drow.

What if SD's ult with Aghanim's automatically applied Soul Catcher?

Batrider's Flaming Lasso has a longer range and drags the unit to the standard distance; like an actual lasso.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;39457881]What if SD's ult with Aghanim's automatically applied Soul Catcher?[/QUOTE] it would be fully sick if it turned soul catcher into an actual aoe instead of a single target ability might not even be that broken when you consider stuff like fatal bonds [I]doubling[/I] aoe damage

Dragon Knight can now fly over terrain when using his ultimate with scepter.

Sniper: Stuns for 1.2 seconds.

sniper; makes his ultimate chaneling, during the chanelling duration sniper passively gains true sight, around himself and his target.

[QUOTE=Rockeiro123;39472569]sniper; makes his ultimate chaneling, during the chanelling duration sniper passively gains true sight, around himself and his target.[/QUOTE] ? it already gives true sight iirc. Or at least kills invis heroes

[QUOTE=Suttles;39473962]? it already gives true sight iirc. Or at least kills invis heroes[/QUOTE] It gives true sight on the target but nothing else.

[QUOTE=Rockeiro123;39472569]sniper; makes his ultimate chaneling, during the chanelling duration sniper passively gains true sight, around himself and his target.[/QUOTE] 4200g and an item slot that could be occupied by the likes of butterfly/shadowblade/manta style/daedalus. Tiny gem applied around self and enemy. That doesn't sound like it's worth it to me. [editline]4th February 2013[/editline] I wonder about this thing for Assassinate : 1. Decrease mana cost from 175/275/375 to 75/150/200 What this does, is it changes Sniper's role if he goes for Aghanim semi-early. He is not going in, hitting people, but standing near arcanes carry with 1 manaregen item of his own (could even be soulring) and harassing enemies into oblivion. Forcing enemies to hide from vision (or deward) or take action, else their supports will either die to 2-3 shots of Assassinate in next 30 seconds, or they'll have to retreat, giving a window of opportunity. This can sound ridiculous, but remember that Asssassinate's perks are cooldown, damage is not highest of the nukes. Top damage is 655, level 1 Finger of Death deals 600. By using these perks in a role that is more useful to the team than 1-item carry, as in Sniper Harasser, we get something different. 2. Assassinate on hit applies not only mini-stun, but also force-staff effect (range is debatable, around 800-1000 should be good, maybe less, pulling numbers out of my ass there). This is to spice things up a bit, as while mana cost decrease is great, at any point, should sniper aquire good manasupply (Multiple arcanes, Kotl, etc) it becomes irrevelant. Force-staff effect is here for a couple reasons. By the way, it's "reverse" force staff", as in it pushes enemies in the direction the bullet was flying when it hit them. First, you get disruption on the enemies during the "harassing" sniper stage. Well timed Assassinate will push charing Centaur away, get Enigma out of position, etc. Later on, when sniper has to carry, it's distance-maker. Shadowblade and stuff like that can become unreliable, so when you see enemy charging in/at your feet you can cross your fingers and cope that Assassinate will make enough of a breathing room. + The hilarity effect of displacing enemy into roshpit/river/ally,etc.

[QUOTE=Tokagero;39475079]4200g and an item slot that could be occupied by the likes of butterfly/shadowblade/manta style/daedalus. Tiny gem applied around self and enemy. That doesn't sound like it's worth it to me. [editline]4th February 2013[/editline] I wonder about this thing for Assassinate : 1. Decrease mana cost from 175/275/375 to 75/150/200 What this does, is it changes Sniper's role if he goes for Aghanim semi-early. He is not going in, hitting people, but standing near arcanes carry with 1 manaregen item of his own (could even be soulring) and harassing enemies into oblivion. Forcing enemies to hide from vision (or deward) or take action, else their supports will either die to 2-3 shots of Assassinate in next 30 seconds, or they'll have to retreat, giving a window of opportunity. This can sound ridiculous, but remember that Asssassinate's perks are cooldown, damage is not highest of the nukes. Top damage is 655, level 1 Finger of Death deals 600. By using these perks in a role that is more useful to the team than 1-item carry, as in Sniper Harasser, we get something different. 2. Assassinate on hit applies not only mini-stun, but also force-staff effect (range is debatable, around 800-1000 should be good, maybe less, pulling numbers out of my ass there). This is to spice things up a bit, as while mana cost decrease is great, at any point, should sniper aquire good manasupply (Multiple arcanes, Kotl, etc) it becomes irrevelant. Force-staff effect is here for a couple reasons. By the way, it's "reverse" force staff", as in it pushes enemies in the direction the bullet was flying when it hit them. First, you get disruption on the enemies during the "harassing" sniper stage. Well timed Assassinate will push charing Centaur away, get Enigma out of position, etc. Later on, when sniper has to carry, it's distance-maker. Shadowblade and stuff like that can become unreliable, so when you see enemy charging in/at your feet you can cross your fingers and cope that Assassinate will make enough of a breathing room. + The hilarity effect of displacing enemy into roshpit/river/ally,etc.[/QUOTE] The thing about assassinate is that it would be really hard to upgrade it without making it op Since you it has a high damage output for its low low cooldown

[QUOTE=Rockeiro123;39476396]The thing about assassinate is that it would be really hard to upgrade it without making it op Since you it has a high damage output for its low low cooldown[/QUOTE] Damage is high, but not "really" high. Here are some "nukes" (i.e. spells that deal above average 300-360 damage) : Laguna Blade : 450/675/950 (600/925/1250 Agha) Finger of Death : 600/725/850 (725/875/1025 Agha) Mystic Flare : 600/900/1200 damage spread on small aoe Ghostship : 300/400/500 in big aoe Lifebreak : 50/65% enemy life Thundergod's Wrath : 225/350/475 (440/540/640 Agha) Sunstrike : 475 pure AoE spread Sonic Wave : 350/475/600 (350/530/725 Agha) A 355/505/655 nuke, even with low cooldown, is not as scary as those. Assassinate is never really used to harass unless your team has powerful manaregen composition already, as you'd rather have mana for Shrapnle's slow, towerdamage ,etc. If you have some mana, and enemy is in vision with low hp, you use Assassinate, that's it. With decreased manacost and "pushback" effect his Ultimate would still be what it is, a long range nuke, but with more utility and more usable by sniper himself. Manacost as it is now, makes it a "special" shot that otherwise long-range carry has in his bag of tricks. What Agha could make is change the way he is played (for a bit, lategame he would still have to right-click mainly, though he would have his "comfort zone" pushback part of Aghanim) for mid part of the game, with strategic knockback, low cooldown/mana nuke. Now, this wouldn't make it insta-pick up though. With Agha early (when that mana decrease matters most, we are not touching it's damage) Sniper would be no right-clicker, compared to guys like Ursa, Anti-mage, etc. He would rely on his team to : 1. Prevent enemy initiation 2. Utilise Sniper's harass with assassinate

Ghostship Aga's; >Gains huge range with a sub-ability; sub-ability sets up where it will travel from, R will set the boat on course. So you can set up boats from far away, and from a different direction from where you are if it's in-range. The boat still needs to travel 1000 units though like it does now.

[QUOTE=PSI Guy;39476987]Ghostship Aga's; >Gains huge range with a sub-ability; sub-ability sets up where it will travel from, R will set the boat on course. So you can set up boats from far away, and from a different direction from where you are if it's in-range. The boat still needs to travel 1000 units though like it does now.[/QUOTE] Holy crap that is awesome. Not exactly the best upgrade either, but think of all the tactical possibilities!

[QUOTE=PSI Guy;39476987]Ghostship Aga's; >Gains huge range with a sub-ability; sub-ability sets up where it will travel from, R will set the boat on course. So you can set up boats from far away, and from a different direction from where you are if it's in-range. The boat still needs to travel 1000 units though like it does now.[/QUOTE] It sounds more like a remake of the ability. It adds a layer of aiming (though actual aiming takes skill and positioning) and makes it mechanically more advanced. No sidebuff, sidegrade, etc. I really don't aim to sound like asshole critic, replying to everyone's ideas and pointing out the bad stuff, but that might be due to to little info you guys provide on top of the idea.

I like the idea of Aghanim's not always providing a direct upgrade, but rather it be a sidegrade that's a tactical choice and is situational. Think of it like the weapon choices in TF2: it's more interesting to have completely new mechanics (Mad Milk) than it is to have simple stat changes (Brass Beast). Whether or not they're actually better is a different story.

[QUOTE=Unisath;39477389]I like the idea of Aghanim's not always providing a direct upgrade, but rather it be a sidegrade that's a tactical choice and is situational. Think of it like the weapon choices in TF2: it's more interesting to have completely new mechanics (Mad Milk) than it is to have simple stat changes (Brass Beast). Whether or not they're actually better is a different story.[/QUOTE] That's the purpose. Aghanim's that are sidegrades/situational and have application to more than 1 phase of the game are the properly done Aghanims. Stuff like Doom's (not enough boom for the gold) or Brewmaster's (Everyone goes for it, always) are usually either in need of a balance or people can't seem to be able to try out different build. Like in case of Brew, sure Agha is awesome, but early/mid when Brewlings matter. Later on they can be killed very quickly, and since brew himself has passive crit/dodge and 75% miss debuff, he can stand up to carries with a couple of items instead of Agha.

Overgrowth; Increases duration by 1 second and decreases the armor of all enemies by 15 until the ult ends

Sniper: Reduces mana cost to 100/200/300 and increases damage to 405/555/705, gives 4000 range.

Templar Assassin: Traps now deal minor damage (75-90?)

[QUOTE=dire_luck;39485654]Templar Assassin: Traps now deal minor damage (75-90?)[/QUOTE] 4200 gold when you could buy damage items for that much(that arent cool down based)

[QUOTE=Suttles;39485718]4200 gold when you could buy damage items for that much(that arent cool down based)[/QUOTE] True, but the cooldown for her traps is like 11 seconds. What other upgrade for her traps could be worth it? Maybe more damage then that? Or something else?

[QUOTE=Liquidrocks;39329270]More vision granted, more slow, more range, or reduced armor.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Liquidrocks;39329270]More vision granted, more slow, more range, or reduced armor.[/QUOTE] Oooh, those are good. But I'd still like it to deal minor damage along with some of those upgrades.

Does anyone else thing that Death Prophet's ult should require a scepter to be able to attack buildings? It's already a ridiculous powerful press-R-and-walk-around ability in fights, it really doesn't need that kind of tower pushing power. Plus, Razor needs one to strike buildings, why shouldn't she?