VAC banned by a Valve employee! - Games

[QUOTE=I Broke The Sun!;21843927]It's like if a some guy came into a restaurant you own, and then one customer complains about another, and that guy made it so one of your customers could never enter your restaurant again, nor any other for the indefinite future.[/QUOTE] No, it's like if someone entered the restaurant, started doing something illegal, and the restaurant staff call the police to throw him out so everyone else can enjoy their meal. He was obviously doing something wrong, he even admits it, and thus he should have been and was banned. It's still the police officer's (valve employee's) job to confirm that the person was in fact doing something illegal before banning them, and I'm sure he confirmed it or saw it before the person was banned.

Jag, maybe this will make you rethink using this exploit again? What's wrong with just playing normally?

I play normally most of the time, If you look at videos by other speedhackers, you'll see we do it for the reaction from others. Things like: "OMG YOU HACKER GET OUT YOU HAVE NO SKILL" and "IM GONNA REPORT YOU"

i think this is wrong. I remember guy who connect to my L4D server and use speedhack and aimbot, i ban him, but he connect again.. so i make thread in forum how to permaban and no one help. He use some old glitch with unconnected player. funny of all that he still playing one year ago. now i know how the vac system work, i need only find some valve employers...

VAC works automatically, FluD. Telling a Valve employee won't do shit.

[QUOTE=Jag;21844735]I play normally most of the time, If you look at videos by other speedhackers, you'll see we do it for the reaction from others. Things like: "OMG YOU HACKER GET OUT YOU HAVE NO SKILL" and "IM GONNA REPORT YOU"[/QUOTE] Where I come from, we call this "griefing", and it's generally frowned upon. Alternative terms include "trolling" and "being a dick".

-snip-

[QUOTE=KarmaPolice;21845876]Where I come from, we call this "griefing", and it's generally frowned upon. Alternative terms include "trolling" and "being a dick".[/QUOTE] Exactly. You used an exploit to cheat and annoy other people. It's not even like the unlimited sentry exploit, it takes more preperation. This guy works for Valve, he knows all the effort that goes into the exploit you were using, sees it as a bit of pre-meditated cheating and bans you. It's your own fault.

who gives a shit you cheated (argue about the semantics all you want I don't care) and you got caught and you got banned don't cheat next time

If I make a server, griefing will be allowed. :downs:

Serves you right! You were cheating regardless.

Report him to VALVe.

[QUOTE=soderholm13;21846136]Report him to VALVe.[/QUOTE] Best course of action

upon second glance of this :bravo:

[QUOTE=Keychain;21830296]He's right, it's Sourcemod's fault, since its a plugin exploit, it doesn't count as a hack. That's like saying building multiple sentries during the time Valve forgot to patch it is considered hacking, when it certainly isn't.[/QUOTE] That's way off from the point. To do the sentries thing, you just had to use console commands. To use speedhacks, you have to download a bunch of stuff and modify the game in essence. I'm glad Valve is allowing it's employees to ban proven, 100% legit cheaters. You're acting as if you're only a cheater if you meet the requirements of running third party programs. You're interfering with other people's enjoyment of the game and making Valve lose money and reputation. Valve has every right to ban you, and are justified in doing so. [editline]10:38PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Jag;21844735]I play normally most of the time, If you look at videos by other speedhackers, [B]you'll see we do it for the reaction from others. Things like: [/B] "OMG YOU HACKER GET OUT YOU HAVE NO SKILL" and "IM GONNA REPORT YOU"[/QUOTE] Congratulations, you're an attention whore who tries to make himself feel better by making an idiot of himself.

Please read the thread before you make assumptions. "can ban you on site instead of just having a normal VAC ban take effect with a huge delay... " This is UNBANNABLE BY VAC normally, which is why it's so bad. [editline]03:33AM[/editline] It's like saying: "Don't step on the grass or you'll have your legs cut off" and then you step on the street which has some grass on it. "You stepped on the grass, now your legs will be cut off" "But this isn't the grass, this is just the street and there's some grass on it" "It's still grass that you are stepping on" Cuts legs off. The end.

[QUOTE=Jag;21849555]This is UNBANNABLE BY VAC normally, which is why [B]it's so bad.[/B][/QUOTE] What's normal or not, I really fail to see what's so bad about a cheater and admitted wanna-be griefer being banned.

Stop complaining, you screwed up. You're at fault for the ban.

You're stupid. Enjoy re-buying all your Steam games again!

[QUOTE=Jag;21849555] It's like saying: "Don't step on the grass or you'll have your legs cut off" and then you step on the street which has some grass on it. "You stepped on the grass, now your legs will be cut off" "But this isn't the grass, this is just the street and there's some grass on it" "It's still grass that you are stepping on" Cuts legs off. The end.[/QUOTE] um I think you kind of just proved: 1) You deserved a ban. 2) Valve has every right to ban people who "Step on the street with forbidden grass." You see, VAC has a zero-tolerance policy. They want to teach people to [b]not cheat,[/b] not teach people to feel free to cheat as long as it's not a direct hack or they don't get caught.

When you signed up for a steam account you agreed to not [B]cheat.[/B] You cheated, even though it is not a hack, you still gained an unfair advantage that only you posses, breaking gameplay for non-cheaters. You may not be a hacker, but you are a cheater. Good day sir.

Well.. OP is right, doesn't matter he was cheating or not, the problem is: valve banned someone for exploiting, VAC is supposed to be automatic and human-proof, it's supposed to operate without errors, entirely on it's own, the fact someone banned him for exploiting is a huge abuse. The right thing to do is fix the loophole, not ban the user for exploiting a poorly-writen system. VAC is supposed to ban whoever modifies the engine with cheat injecting DLL's, if we follow the same logic to what happened with the OP, millions should be banned for building multiple sentries "just because they were cheating and should deal with it", and that doesn't make any sense. tl;dr: Valve made a mistake, OP should be unbanned. [editline]02:42AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Ollih;21832807][img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2488893/owned%20faggot.png[/img][/QUOTE] Cheat =/= Exploit

[QUOTE=FuzzyPoop;21850722] Cheat =/= Exploit[/QUOTE] He was clearly affecting negatively on the enjoyment of other players however.

[QUOTE=Pat.Lithium;21851447]He was clearly affecting negatively on the enjoyment of other players however.[/QUOTE] Then we all should get banned by micspam, sentry glitch, HLSS and general griefing.

VAC was not created with the purpose of punishing cheaters. Cheaters is a very vague term, especially since almost every single server is not valve owned; and a majority of those servers are running 3rd party modifications. It is the choice of the server owner to trust these 3rd party modifications onto their servers, and if they do, valve cannot be held accountable for any exploit made possible by 3rd party modifications, thus it is the server administrator's responsibility to deal with exploiters. If VAC was system to punish cheaters, it would allow input from serverowners to vacban players caught cheating according to the serverowner's definitions. VAC is a system designed to protect Valve's game's files. It is an automatic system that detects file tampering, not a judgement system that determines the innocence of a suspected player. Valve employees should not be given access to vacbans. It effectively makes each employee an admin on every single server, and thus an admin abuser who is not recognized by the owner of the server. As a server owner myself, I am assured that many server owners do not agree to having unknown valve employees wield administrative power in their servers. The correct course of action is the contact a server administrator. If he or she deems it violating of the server's rules, he or she will take the correct course of action.

[QUOTE=FHamster;21851570]VAC was not created with the purpose of punishing cheaters. Cheaters is a very vague term, especially since almost every single server is not valve owned; and a majority of those servers are running 3rd party modifications. It is the choice of the server owner to trust these 3rd party modifications onto their servers, and if they do, valve cannot be held accountable for any exploit made possible by 3rd party modifications, thus it is the server administrator's responsibility to deal with exploiters. If VAC was system to punish cheaters, it would allow input from serverowners to vacban players caught cheating according to the serverowner's definitions. VAC is a system designed to protect Valve's game's files. It is an automatic system that detects file tampering, not a judgement system that determines the innocence of a suspected player. Valve employees should not be given access to vacbans. It effectively makes each employee an admin on every single server, and thus an admin abuser who is not recognized by the owner of the server. As a server owner myself, I am assured that many server owners do not agree to having unknown valve employees wield administrative power in their servers. The correct course of action is the contact a server administrator. If he or she deems it violating of the server's rules, he or she will take the correct course of action.[/QUOTE] This, exactly this, this is what I've been trying to point out. It doesn't matter whether or not I cheated, I didn't tamper with any game files, and thus, I do not deserve a VAC ban, but just a server ban. Valve employees do not have the right to be server admins on someone's server, without their knowledge. I have replied to my steam support ticket with the above quote, and additional information: [release] This is exactly why my VAC ban is not valid. A human, who assumed I was using a hack, vac banned me, instead of asking the server owner to server ban me. I was not using a hack, I was exploiting a plugin, Sourcemod, which is not created nor maintained by Valve. It was not right for this Valve employee to take it upon himself to ban me based on what his eyes could see, a "hack" while I was simply exploiting a third-party plugin that Valve does not own. If I started my own server up, and I used a sourcemod plugin to speed my own player up, but no one else's, and a Valve employee joined, should they be able to VAC ban me based on what they see? Instead of banning people who use this exploit, Valve should fix their games to make this exploit not doable. A fix for this exploit would be not allowing "sv_cheats" to be on in multiplayer, like Left 4 Dead 2 does. This would completely break this exploit, and it will not be doable anymore. Before you say something like "You were negatively effecting the other players in the game," You should also realize that this would mean anyone who does anything to negatively effect players, such as microphone spamming, or modded servers which allow admins to do things other players cannot, to be VAC banned. These are not valid VAC ban reasons, and neither is using an exploit in a third-party plugin which is not created by Valve (sourcemod.) Please reconsider my ban appeal, as the ban was not this Valve employee's right to do. [/release]

The rest of the letter posted above - [URL]http://www.texasteamplayers.com/index.php?topic=75538.0;wap2[/URL] Also, [QUOTE]You acknowledge and agree that either Valve or any online multiplayer host may refuse to allow you to participate in certain online multiplayer games if you use Cheats in connection with Steam or the Steam Software.[B] Further, you acknowledge and agree that an online multiplayer host may report your use of Cheats to Valve, and Valve may communicate your history of use of Cheats to other online multiplayer hosts for Valve products[/B]. Valve may terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, constitutes a Cheat, or which otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers. You acknowledge that Valve is not required to provide you notice before terminating your Subscriptions(s) and/or Account, but it may choose to do so.[/QUOTE] How do you know that this valve employee banned you directly? He could have more or less just reported you, and due to his job in valve, it was processed more quickly.

[QUOTE=Humangatang;21852733]The rest of the letter posted above - [URL]http://www.texasteamplayers.com/index.php?topic=75538.0;wap2[/URL] Also, How do you know that this VAC admin banned you directly? He could have more or less just reported you, and due to his job in valve, it was processed more quickly.[/QUOTE] You can't "report" someone to VAC.

VAC is supposed to be automated. How the fuck can an employee ban you, seriously.

Poor choice of words I admit, but none the less, Jag was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Yes he was VAC banned, but [U]there is no proof that the valve employee was the one who did it[/U]. And just because VAC is automated doesn't mean that it wont allow manual input.