VAC banned by a Valve employee! - Games

[QUOTE=Keyblockor;21860564]This man is smart, his name is a coincidence, and his words are truth.[/QUOTE] Wow...so many Steam players use SourceMod that I came to believe it was a part of Steam. I have forgotten that SourceMod was developed by a different group and was meant to modify Steam games. Thanks for pointing this out, Keyblockor.

People who are against the OP do not understand the dilemma here. The Valve employee did not have suffcient information to ban the OP. For all he knew, the owner gave him an advantage, or that the OP was an admin using Sourcemod to get an advantage. Just like courts of law, Valve should not VAC ban someone unless there is not a single shred of doubt they are hacking. And don't say "Well, the OP was exploiting therefore he deserved it!." I am not saying he didn't deserve it, I'm just saying the employee had no right to ban him because he did not have enough info to do it.

you're not going to convince them otherwise they just think that he deserves to be banned for cheating regardless of the terms which is completely ignorant

Valve employees shouldn't interfere with an automated system for this reason, you could try and make a ticket and give the name of the mod that banned you and give a detailed description of what was happening in the game at the time. VAC bans are permanent though, and you have about .1% chance of getting unbanned. I love how people will suck Valve's dick but when they get their shit blown they have to wine about how they suck and are ignorant. VAC bans are a little harsh if you ask me. Banned from playing any game on a engine you hacked on. It's how Valve keeps cheaters away though. Good Luck on this. Either way don't cheat.

Shouldn't have been a VAC ban.

[QUOTE=I Broke The Sun!;21860853]People who are against the OP do not understand the dilemma here. The Valve employee did not have suffcient information to ban the OP. For all he knew, the owner gave him an advantage, or that the OP was an admin using Sourcemod to get an advantage. Just like courts of law, Valve should not VAC ban someone unless there is not a single shred of doubt they are hacking. And don't say "Well, the OP was exploiting therefore he deserved it!." I am not saying he didn't deserve it, I'm just saying the employee had no right to ban him because he did not have enough info to do it.[/QUOTE] OP stated that he did INFACT use Sourcemod, a 3rd-party utility, to exploit a "cheat" in a server. Therefore, that dilemma should have been ignored completely. But of course, we should have not dismissed that. But in answering your question on the dilemma, if you see this guy running faster than the other guy--3 times faster? Do you need anymore evidence than that, oh dear, I Broke the Sun? I am sure there is no such thing as, Permanent Speed boost in the game TF2. And if it was an Admin who gave him this power, why did he not state that before the ban? I am 100% certain that if that had been the case, the admin would have the employee lift the ban.

[QUOTE=gaming04;21861257]OP stated that he did INFACT use Sourcemod, a 3rd-party utility, to exploit a "cheat" in a server. Therefore, that dilemma should have been ignored completely. But of course, we should have not dismissed that. But in answering your question on the dilemma, if you see this guy running faster than the other guy--3 times faster? Do you need anymore evidence than that, oh dear, I Broke the Sun? I am sure there is no such thing as, Permanent Speed boost in the game TF2. And if it was an Admin who gave him this power, why did he not state that before the ban? I am 100% certain that if that had been the case, the admin would have the employee lift the ban.[/QUOTE] Using Sourcemod to speed is no different from using a hack. Even if a server does not have Sourcemod installed you can still use the Sourcemode exploit since its hosted locally. If true, the Valve employee had every right to VAC ban his account for cheating with a known exploit that they cant patch. If Valve were to patch this and make it VAC ban worthy then everyone hosting a local server with Sourcemod would get a VAC ban and that wouldnt be pretty. Using Sourcemod to cheat is no different than going to a website and downloading a hack. Both are in clear violation of the EULA and you use them at your own risk. Once you get VAC'd you will never get unbanned no matter how much you complain. [QUOTE=FoxMeister;21861108]Shouldn't have been a VAC ban.[/QUOTE] Violation of EULA, yeah he got what he deserves and the fact he got caught makes it even funnier.

[QUOTE=FuzzyPoop;21850722]Well.. OP is right, doesn't matter he was cheating or not, the problem is: valve banned someone for exploiting, VAC is supposed to be automatic and human-proof, it's supposed to operate without errors, entirely on it's own, the fact someone banned him for exploiting is a huge abuse. The right thing to do is fix the loophole, not ban the user for exploiting a poorly-writen system. VAC is supposed to ban whoever modifies the engine with cheat injecting DLL's, if we follow the same logic to what happened with the OP, millions should be banned for building multiple sentries "just because they were cheating and should deal with it", and that doesn't make any sense. tl;dr: Valve made a mistake, OP should be unbanned. [editline]02:42AM[/editline] Cheat =/= Exploit[/QUOTE] It says [i]ANY[/i] conduct that [b]constitutes[b] as a cheat, [u]OR[/u] which otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of steam by other subscribers. Exploits not only constitute as cheats, but they also fulfill the requirement of negatively affecting the enjoyment of steam by other subscribers. Whether you like it or not, speedhacking is a cheat in VAC's terms. It doesn't matter what you think a cheat and exploit is, it only matters what the terms say. It's like saying that Left 4 Dead is unrealistic because it features fast zombies instead of slow ones.

[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;21861534]I love how this has broken out into an all out war between cheaters, hackers, etc... against everyone else... Really though, cheating at all, whether you were tampering with gamefiles or just using exploits, if you had an "Unfair advantage against other players that only you possessed", if you were caught, whether it be the server owner or a Valve employee ([B]WHICH I THINK IS TOTALLY FAIR, SINCE THESE GUYS ARE ACTUALLY RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE AND KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING[/B]), I see nothing against Jag being permenantly VAC banned... :siren:Also, Valve does reserve the right to do this to any player who is hacking or cheating, whether they are the server owner or not.. It's in the Steam EULA, when you accepted that, you accepted those terms.:siren: Go ahead Jag, try and fight.. you won't win... Instead, I suggest you go out and get a life... [b]The fact that you got caught jag, and are now being real pissy about it, makes it all the more funnier. Go ahead, keep cursing, it pleases me[/b] :v:[/QUOTE] Considering that I never cursed once in this thread, you have no idea what you're talking about. [sp]someone found out how to use emotes, and thinks they make his argument valid.[/sp] [editline]08:48PM[/editline] What if I had been the owner of that server, and i gave myself unfair advantages because I wanted to. If this Valve employee thought I was hacking and VAC banned me, it would be the same exact thing. I was doing something that VAC cannot catch on it's own, which isn't considered a hack, just an exploit of server plugins. This person, a human, capable of fault, is able to manually add me to a perfect, infallible system of catching HACKERS. They should not be able to go to some VAC control panel and click "Add person to VAC blacklist," because they are not perfect like VAC. [editline]08:49PM[/editline] VAC is perfect, humans who control VAC make it imperfect.

[QUOTE=Jag;21862202]text[/QUOTE] no omg u cheater u got what u deserved. valve caught you and you were cheating so it is justified.!!!!

Since you guys want my steam account, I have two; [url]http://steamcommunity.com/id/jaggerestep[/url] (Not the account in question, my orangebox account with garrysmod, VAC banned when I first joined STEAM and got CSS and Garry's Mod, I didn't know better and I used an "undetectable" hack in CSS. After I got VAC banned I bought this second account to not get VAC banned on ever: ) [url]http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198000099841/[/url] (Account that got VAC banned by the Valve employee.)

[QUOTE=Technopath;21858337]Shouldn't Valve employees also be banned because they join random TF2 servers with their experimental uber Valve weapons and ruin everyones experience? (except for those who have a sense of humor)[/QUOTE] 1) They rarely have them equipped. 2) They're adults who have a good education, and know very well the interest of the consumer. They don't act like dickheads on purpose to go on ego trips. [editline]05:05PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Jag;21862477] [url]http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198000099841/[/url] (Account that got VAC banned by the Valve employee.)[/QUOTE] I'll be that in your 1867.4 hrs (lol) of Gmod, you've always had a lua aimbot active.

Hahah fucking pillock, this is why you don't hack/exploit

[QUOTE=Jag;21862477]Since you guys want my steam account, I have two; [URL]http://steamcommunity.com/id/jaggerestep[/URL] (Not the account in question, my orangebox account with garrysmod, VAC banned when I first joined STEAM and got CSS and Garry's Mod, I didn't know better and I used an "undetectable" hack in CSS. After I got VAC banned I bought this second account to not get VAC banned on ever: ) [URL]http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198000099841/[/URL] (Account that got VAC banned by the Valve employee.)[/QUOTE] 1000+ hours in team fortress 2 187+91 for l4d2 1867 for garry's mod :bravo: [B]Edit:[/B] for effect :bravo:

You used an external program, not a program from Valve, so don't bring up the infinite sentry exploit, and not at all preventable by other players (HLSS users can be muted by anyone from the main menu) and [I]purposely[/I] set out to gain an unfair advantage over other players with an exploit that works exactly the same as a speedhack. And you're saying this is unfair? Fuck off.

[QUOTE=Jag;21862202]VAC is perfect, humans who control VAC make it imperfect.[/QUOTE] You sir are incorrect. No set program is perfect. If left on it's own hackers would find loopholes, and ways around VAC's detection. Having human beings present to update it, and catch those who try to get around it's programing is a necessity. Here is how I see it. VAC managed to miss you because you were deliberately using an exploit that goes under it's radar. It is reported to the mod who happens to be present. You indicated that he went into spectator mode for several minutes before declaring that you would be banned. During this time, he was likely inspecting your character's performance to verify that you were infact using a known exploit. The fact that no other users objected to his banning indicates that no, the host of the server was not tolerant of exploit usage. If it was a server that allows exploits the host would have said 'no, its cool, I'm allowing that on my server' The admin then returns saying 'its done' but you are not banned right away, this indicates that he likely submitted the evidence and user information to VAC, which then soon after determined that you were infact cheating and deserved a ban.

[QUOTE=Galdon;21863381]You sir are incorrect. No set program is perfect. If left on it's own hackers would find loopholes, and ways around VAC's detection. Having human beings present to update it, and catch those who try to get around it's programing is a necessity. Here is how I see it. VAC managed to miss you because you were deliberately using an exploit that goes under it's radar. It is reported to the mod who happens to be present. You indicated that he went into spectator mode for several minutes before declaring that you would be banned. During this time, he was likely inspecting your character's performance to verify that you were infact using a known exploit. The fact that no other users objected to his banning indicates that no, the host of the server was not tolerant of exploit usage. If it was a server that allows exploits the host would have said 'no, its cool, I'm allowing that on my server' The admin then returns saying 'its done' but you are not banned right away, this indicates that he likely submitted the evidence and user information to VAC, which then soon after determined that you were infact cheating and deserved a ban.[/QUOTE] I concede all arguments made previously in my posts. Well done sir. :golfclap:

[url]http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/[/url] [quote]5. ONLINE CONDUCT, CHEATING AND ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR You agree that you will be personally responsible for the use of your Account and for all of the communication and activity on Steam that results from use of your Account. Your online conduct and interaction with other subscribers should be guided by common sense and basic etiquette. Specific requirements may also be found in the Steam Online Conduct rules at [url]http://steampowered.com/index.php?area=online_conduct[/url], other Rules of Use, the Subscription Terms, or in terms of use required by third parties who host particular games or other services. Steam and the Steam Software may include functionality designed to identify software or hardware processes or functionality that may give a player an unfair competitive advantage when playing multiplayer versions of any Steam Software, other Valve products, or modifications thereof ("Cheats"). You agree that you will not create or assist third parties in any way to create Cheats. You agree that you will not directly or indirectly disable, circumvent, or otherwise interfere with the operation of software designed to prevent or report the use of Cheats. You acknowledge and agree that either Valve or any online multiplayer host may refuse to allow you to participate in certain online multiplayer games if you use Cheats in connection with Steam or the Steam Software. Further, you acknowledge and agree that an online multiplayer host may report your use of Cheats to Valve, and Valve may communicate your history of use of Cheats to other online multiplayer hosts for Valve products. Valve may terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, constitutes a Cheat, or which otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers. You acknowledge that Valve is not required to provide you notice before terminating your Subscriptions(s) and/or Account, but it may choose to do so.[/quote] End of story really.

[QUOTE=Galdon;21863381]You sir are incorrect. No set program is perfect. If left on it's own hackers would find loopholes, and ways around VAC's detection. Having human beings present to update it, and catch those who try to get around it's programing is a necessity. Here is how I see it. VAC managed to miss you because you were deliberately using an exploit that goes under it's radar. It is reported to the mod who happens to be present. You indicated that he went into spectator mode for several minutes before declaring that you would be banned. During this time, he was likely inspecting your character's performance to verify that you were infact using a known exploit. The fact that no other users objected to his banning indicates that no, the host of the server was not tolerant of exploit usage. If it was a server that allows exploits the host would have said 'no, its cool, I'm allowing that on my server' The admin then returns saying 'its done' but you are not banned right away, this indicates that he likely submitted the evidence and user information to VAC, which then soon after determined that you were infact cheating and deserved a ban.[/QUOTE] First of all, it is well known that VAC, or any other anti hacking program is no perfect. Humans are required to deal with the exceptions where hacks do get through. What is contested is who that human should be. I am a server owner; by owner I mean I have a box in my room for which I paid for the hardware, and the internet. I am a firm believer that the human touch should come from server owners and administrators picked and trusted by the server owner. VAC is an automated program. It detects tampering with the game's files. Thus Valve is claiming territory on their files. Cheating is such an ambiguous concept. You may think speed hacking is considered cheating, but there are server owners who allow this, and some who exploit it themselves on popular servers. Infact, by the definitions presented by general consensus of this thread, all admin abusers, or even fun admin powers in general are hackers and hacks. I use the word hacks because that is what VAC deals with; hacks. Not protesting a ban does not mean its justified. Even agreeing with a ban does not make it justified. Whether you like it or not, the internet is not a democracy. You are on someone else's server, which they own, therefore you are required to respect their opinions. Admins can seek input from players on the servers, and most do, but go to most servers and you will see it's ban request/appeal section leaves little power to the community. The decision is made by the administrating party, not the community. This simply reiterates the common rule" If you don't like it here, play somewhere else". Video games are not socialism. Just because it took a little bit of time before he was banned does not mean that a formal request was submitted before he was banned. If anything, the hastiness of the VAC ban points towards direct access to the ban system. VAC is not a person, nor a judging committee. Employees do not submit evidence and make a case to a computer. It is a script, a subroutine that sees in black and white. If a certain value is considered true, it will ban. That is it.

[QUOTE=Jag;21862477]VAC banned when I first joined STEAM and got CSS and Garry's Mod, I didn't know better and I used an "undetectable" hack in CSS. After I got VAC banned I bought this second account to not get VAC banned on ever: )[/QUOTE] And people are still defending him...

[QUOTE=Pat.Lithium;21864785]And people are still defending him...[/QUOTE] People. Or I am not defending him. I am defending the rights of a serverowner. I don't want Valve employees VAC banning people in my servers.

op deserved it op got counter-trolled xD

In all fairness, You deserved it. It doesn't matter that it was in console, because it's cheating anyway.

The fuck is wrong with you guys? He did not deserve A VAC ban. He deserved to be banned from the server. VAC is supposed to stop people who use outside programs like cheatengine, if that even works on source. He is using a loophole that is up to the developers of the "sourcemod" to fix. Plus that valve employee's steam page looks like that of a complete fucking faggot.

[QUOTE=playelite;21864969]The fuck is wrong with you guys? He did not deserve A VAC ban. He deserved to be banned from the server. VAC is supposed to stop people who use outside programs like cheatengine, if that even works on source. He is using a loophole that is up to the developers of the "sourcemod" to fix. Plus that valve employee's steam page looks like that of a complete fucking faggot.[/QUOTE] he's still exploiting to gain an advantage. that's not fair. his ban was deserved. uMAD? go take a dump.

[QUOTE=Jessesmith1;21865022]he's still exploiting to gain an advantage. that's not fair. his ban was deserved. uMAD? go take a dump.[/QUOTE] I just did and it felt great.

[QUOTE=Jessesmith1;21865022]he's still exploiting to gain an advantage. that's not fair. his ban was deserved. uMAD? go take a dump.[/QUOTE] He deserved a serverban, if the serverowner deemed it appropriate. You are a troll. PS: I did too ;)

[QUOTE=FHamster;21865056]He deserved a serverban, if the serverowner deemed it appropriate. You are a troll. PS: I did too ;)[/QUOTE] give me a legitimate reason why anyone would need to use that "speedhack exploit" exactly ragequit

[QUOTE=Jessesmith1;21865130]give me a legitimate reason why anyone would need to use that "speedhack exploit" exactly ragequit[/QUOTE] Because not all servers disapprove of it, therefore he may not be banned. To be honest, if it were my server on Empiresmod, I would first talk to him. If he was an asshole I'd permaban him. If he wasn't depending on my mood I'd either give him a temp ban, or let it slide but make sure he doesn't do it again. Furthermore this is not an argument about whether or not he deserved a ban, its about whether Valve employees can utilized VAC to manually ban who they deem fit. Your trolling at the end of your posts make me want to not argue with you.

Oh shit, looks like I'm going to have to stop doing this on furry servers...