[QUOTE=Sam Cutt;29690263]Having not received answers that fit into your ideal world, you insult those who have attempted to help you. And rather than trying to explain yourself further—to help those [i]mindless buffoons—[/i]you disrespect them.
You display education and good diction, but waste both by using them as means to gain superiority. I must now reveal something shocking; knowledge is quite different from intelligence. You are similar to someone I knew from my childhood. She was quite educated, stubborn, resilient, and eventually successful—but completely blank when it came to interpretation and visualization.
I do not wish to seem as though I am trying to insult you, or anger you—I am not. None of this was written with irritation or condemnation. I'm merely giving you the option to understand; you have driven off the kind people who originally offered their help.
Welcome to Facepunch.[/QUOTE]
I'm not a forum friendly person. Never have been. Anytime I was actively involved in a forum I would end threads with the finality of death itself in a single post. Bluntly? Fuck my "knowledge" and "intelligence" to speak nothing of my "education" and "diction"; I'm not interested in that. I just don't want to be misunderstood. "Mindless buffons"? That's your wording there, I haven't said anything of the sort.
Forty-second post? In five years. Welcome [i]back[/i] to Facepunch. Not entirely sure what [i]your[/i] ideal world is like, not interested in that, either. I do know that you took time out of what I can only imagine to be a busy mid-thirties-to-forties schedule to reiterate my futility.
Again I say; helpfulness seems to be in the eye of the beholder. Is telling someone their endeavor is impossible when evidence to the contrary has surfaced? If you care about what I think so much, allow yourself the courteous option of understanding: count the number of people that have said what I'm trying to do is impossible, the number of people acting self-righteous because I know better than to just take the first answer given to me on a forum of 29,000+ active users (many of whom self-admittedly don't know the answer to my question) and then count the number of users that have made a meaningful contribution.
I'm not mad. I'm a little bored, kind of hungry and I kind of wish the new Family Guy was out, but definitely not inconvenienced in the slightest by what others think. I don't require external validation, I'm typing because I want to know the answer to my question and I don't accept being told it's not possible.
[QUOTE=Chrisknyfe;29690428]Hey, everyone shut up for a second! I actually want to hear which variables/limits saito.kaiten is suggesting be changed. Hypothetically, in a world where changing certain limits wouldn't cause a VAC ban. Sheesh guys it's not like everyone in this thread is going to be VAC-banned for discussing it...
EDIT: saito, are we talking map size limits? Number of entities/brushes/particles/effects/props limits?[/QUOTE]
There we go! OK, there's a few things I haven't found anything on, not even sure if I'm even thinking about some real thing or just some fluke of a 200 tick/1k fps server, but the things I know are real are welds and constraints. Not sure which or if it's both, but there's a point where another weld or constraint kills the server. Another quick fix is actually a speed/mass/force issue where super massive objects are utterly incapable of high speed even over the diagonal length of a full-grid map. The edicts thing is an issue again, even though you can raise it the hardcoded limit seems to still be there, just higher. Same for a lot of other CVARs. I can only detonate about 400 barrels at once without crashing the server due to no free edicts error and that's up from 100.
As for map size limits, that'd be great to fix, but for now i'm using a 1/300th skybox simulating a 25 mile radius. I'm still working on it, but it's got a river and half a forest with some city bits off in the distance. Pretty rad for a map that I never work on. Brushes? Why the [i]hell[/i] can't i have a brush within 64 units of the grid boundry? Everytime it's just error city. Not that a few feet matter compared to the 25 mile illusion, but still.
[QUOTE=Chrisknyfe;29690428]... ahh fuck me, he left already didn't he. SEE WHAT YOU DID? ruined what could've been a valuable discussion about source engine limits with a frog image macro. punks.[/QUOTE]
Nope, can't get rid of me that easily. I'm a mechanic in the Army, my skin is so thick I peel off excess layers like sticky notes. (That's a joke/metaphor/analog. I'm not really a sticky-note pad. Thought I might have to clarify that.)
[QUOTE=3noneTwo;29690614]Saiko's having fun, you guys.[/QUOTE]
You're damned right.
[QUOTE=thisispain;29690700]this thread is a bit bizarre[/QUOTE]
You're damned right.
You act like you're better than anyone else here except the fact that you were the one that CAME HERE ASKING FOR HELP. The only advice ANYONE can give you this far is for you to
[highlight][b]GET[/b][/highlight]
[highlight][b]OUT[/b][/highlight]
[QUOTE=Tark;29690810]You act like you're better than anyone else here except the fact that you were the one that CAME HERE ASKING FOR HELP. The only advice ANYONE can give you this far is for you to
[highlight]GET[/highlight]
[highlight]OUT[/highlight][/QUOTE]
Don't care, I'll have my question satisfactorily answered. Do you know how to code the script I've outlined?
I like OP. He uses something FPers haven't used for many years: Logic.
[QUOTE=saiko.kaiten;29690828]Don't care, I'll have my question satisfactorily answered. Do you know how to code the script I've outlined?[/QUOTE]
well you'll first have to acquire the source code to the engine, so let us know when you get that part done
[editline]8th May 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=_Twitch_;29690871]I like OP. He uses something FPers haven't used for many years: Logic.[/QUOTE]
denial =/= logic
[QUOTE=Juniez;29690877]well you'll first have to acquire the source code to the engine, so let us know when you get that part done
[editline]8th May 2011[/editline]
denial =/= logic[/QUOTE]
Denying with logic = logic.
Denying because you're being immature and saying it can't be done because it hasn't been done = FP.
[QUOTE=saiko.kaiten;29690040]Is it pretty at least? I like it.
λ•Ϡ=Ю[/QUOTE]
I fucking love it how you first ask for help, then when you receive answers that are not what you expected, you turn into a prick, and then into a smartass prick.
You're not going anywhere this way, and people have answered all your questions on page 1.
[QUOTE=saiko.kaiten;29690757]The edicts thing is an issue again, even though you can raise it the hardcoded limit seems to still be there, just higher. Same for a lot of other CVARs.[/QUOTE]
There's the problem, the limit is [b]hardcoded[/b]. That means it's been compiled into the engine itself and you cannot modify it unless you have the source code of that engine. (you don't).
[QUOTE=saiko.kaiten;29690757]Is telling someone their endeavor is impossible when evidence to the contrary has surfaced?[/QUOTE]
no direct evidence to the contrary has surfaced
[QUOTE=_Twitch_;29690906]Denying with logic = logic.
Denying because you're being immature and saying it can't be done because it hasn't been done = FP.[/QUOTE]
no, it can't be done because we have [i]none[/i] of the things that are required to make something like this happen. Denying this has absolutely no logic behind it
[QUOTE=saiko.kaiten;29690757]I'm not a forum friendly person. Never have been. Anytime I was actively involved in a forum I would end threads with the finality of death itself in a single post. Bluntly? Fuck my "knowledge" and "intelligence" to speak nothing of my "education" and "diction"; I'm not interested in that. I just don't want to be misunderstood. "Mindless buffons"? That's your wording there, I haven't said anything of the sort.[/QUOTE]
I'd say the most immediate problem is that you come off "holier than thou". S'why you're not forum-friendly, it's almost as if you're trying to word yourself too eloquently or something. Ease up and speak casually, like you'd speak to a friend or day-to-day real world people. You don't have to defend yourself from every single post, either. :v:
If you were to put together a custom [B]engine[/B] just to run the map for your server, everyone would likely need to install that same custom engine in order to play. We're not just talking a custom map on a server here, where everyone who plays can download the map upon connecting. You want to raise limits that are otherwise unmodifiable and hard-coded into the executable engine itself.
You will need the source code. Your resource is Valve Software.
don't listen to what the nay-sayers say [I]I BELIEVE IN YOU[/I]
[QUOTE=3noneTwo;29691041]I'd say the most immediate problem is that you come off "holier than thou". S'why you're not forum-friendly, it's almost as if you're trying to word yourself too eloquently or something. Ease up and speak casually, like you'd speak to a friend or day-to-day real world people. You don't have to defend yourself from every single post, either. :v:[/QUOTE]
Forums should have a far more formal tone than speaking to a friend. Casual diction is meant for places like "General Discussion".
[QUOTE=_Twitch_;29691192]Forums should have a far more formal tone than speaking to a friend. Casual diction is meant for places like "General Discussion".[/QUOTE]
He can still be formal without seeming egotistical and "holier than thou".
[QUOTE=_Twitch_;29691192]Forums should have a far more formal tone than speaking to a friend. Casual diction is meant for places like "General Discussion".[/QUOTE]
"Personable" better describes what I meant! And Juniez said what I would have said (Juniez get out of my head).
It doesn't matter what you [I]think[/I] is possible, it just isn't.
Altering the code of published game is illegal, and even ignoring that, you don't have the skills to make the kinds of changes required for it.
Assuming you do, you will be the only one able to play it as anyone else who would attempt to connect wouldn't, because the files on the server are different than the ones on their machine.
Even if they could, the server would have to be VAC insecure, and only illegals or idiots join those servers.
Lua scripts and DLLs are not going to make the limits go away, Your custom engine is a pipe dream.
[QUOTE=_Twitch_;29690871]I like OP. He uses something FPers haven't used for many years: Logic.[/QUOTE]
Thank you, it's refreshing to see that my efforts aren't wasted.
[QUOTE=Juniez;29690877]well you'll first have to acquire the source code to the engine, so let us know when you get that part done
[editline]8th May 2011[/editline]
denial =/= logic[/QUOTE]
I'll add that denial ≠ help, either.
[QUOTE=_Twitch_;29690906]Denying with logic = logic.
Denying because you're being immature and saying it can't be done because it hasn't been done = FP.[/QUOTE]
Well said.
[QUOTE=LEETNOOB;29690909]I fucking love it how you first ask for help, then when you receive answers that say that you need to pay to modify the engine, you turn into a prick, and then into a smartass prick.
You're not going anywhere this way, and people have answered all your questions on page 1.[/QUOTE]
Are you referring to this post?
[QUOTE=BLOODGA$M;29688629]I'm pretty sure what you want to do isn't possible without the engine source code, which just isn't available to the general public. Now, if you feel like paying Valve some licensing fees to make your own commercial game using their engine...[/QUOTE]
Post number 32 in this thread? The first post in the thread that made any suggestion to actually purchase the license to buy the code; to which I've also already responded by admitting that's where my skill level limit is reached as I do not have the time or knowledge to alter the Source engine code directly.
How about we go back to posts two though thirty-one and see how many were just "impossible" or "I don't know" type responses (for kicks we'll add a counter for mockery and other forum-troll behavior): we've got eleven posts from users that only state the impossibility or that they personally don't know. I'll go out on a limb and say that if it turns out to be possible the ones saying how impossible it is simply don't know. Eight posts fell into the mockery and forum-troll behavior. Ten posts were mine and one was helpful.
The first reply set the tone for the rest, it always does; it's how forums work, or rather why they don't. The bandwagon of "buy the license and make your own game" got rolling with post 32 but it's already been rebuked as an inviable option. So no, my question has not yet been answered to satisfaction.
[QUOTE=Juniez;29690945]There's the problem, the limit is [b]hardcoded[/b]. That means it's been compiled into the engine itself and you cannot modify it unless you have the source code of that engine. (you don't).
no direct evidence to the contrary has surfaced
no, it can't be done because we have [i]none[/i] of the things that are required to make something like this happen. Denying this has absolutely no logic behind it[/QUOTE]
No evidence? Here's a quick rundown of why I think the limits can be overcome. Any object tracked by the game is stored in an array or vector of fixed and known size, this is all inclusive. The array can be indexed and entries removed by script, this changes the fundamental behavior of the server engine which tracks the position, orientation and velocity of every object as well as handle the collision detection and physics application for each object. Now with the script detecting the a call to produce an object that would fall outside these limits the object creation is queued until the array is cleared of the oldest object in that array to make room for that new and otherwise crashing object.
No, this isn't removing the limit, but what it does do is keep that limit from crashing the server. This is a feasible and simple fix that would prevent the low-ceiling I've been talking about. I'd prefer an actual fix but as that is forth coming I would be satisfied with this solution. I'd like to agree that modifying the engine itself is impossible but what I know is that the engine is inherently extensible and that there could easily be things the vast majority of the community doesn't know about the Source engine that one or two users might be able to add to the conversation.
[QUOTE=3noneTwo;29691041]I'd say the most immediate problem is that you come off "holier than thou". S'why you're not forum-friendly, it's almost as if you're trying to word yourself too eloquently or something. Ease up and speak casually, like you'd speak to a friend or day-to-day real world people. You don't have to defend yourself from every single post, either. :v:
If you were to put together a custom [B]engine[/B] just to run the map for your server, everyone would likely need to install that same custom engine in order to play. We're not just talking a custom map on a server here, where everyone who plays can download the map upon connecting. You want to raise limits that are otherwise unmodifiable and hard-coded into the executable engine itself.
You will need the source code. Your resource is Valve Software.[/QUOTE]
You're probably right; people say it sounds like I have an attitude like I'm superior or entitled. Unfortunately I'm either formal English or a bastardized and socially unacceptable mix of such esoteric references that I'm usually banned on sight. Other than that this is how I actually speak. I also am kind of using the system against itself: if i respond actively and keep this thread at the top more people will notice it and I increase the probability of having my question answered.
I mostly play GMod offline on my private servers since public servers are not much better than roulette and many are garbage. Private servers also enjoy the advantage of more precision and control over the game environment. If I have to run a custom game client that's fine with me.
As for configuring the Source engine from scratch (and as stated multiple times previously) this is a last resort kind of option. I'm convinced better and simpler options exist. I've found a great level of control over the core engine to be possible when you can easily find entire threads of how impossible something is supposed to be.
[QUOTE=_Twitch_;29691192]Forums should have a far more formal tone than speaking to a friend. Casual diction is meant for places like "General Discussion".[/QUOTE]
I completely agree. The concept of a "forum" has a certain set of implied etiquettes I find severely lacking almost everywhere.
[QUOTE=Juniez;29691232]He can still be formal without seeming egotistical and "holier than thou".[/QUOTE]
Ever dress in a tuxedo and go to a sports bar? This is like that. The dude in the tux just wanted to relax after work where he felt like he could hang out but the hairy-backed smelly guy painted red and yellow thinks Mr. Tuxedo is acting all high and mighty because he's wearing a shirt. I tried to set a civil decorum, you came in wearing sweat and paint. Why can't we all just watch the fucking game?
[QUOTE=3noneTwo;29691363]"Personable" better describes what I meant! And Juniez said what I would have said (Juniez get out of my head).[/QUOTE]
Oddly, in person I'm a treat to be around. I'm quiet if I have nothing to say and my rants take particularly well to like-minded individuals. I'm an extrovert by nature and love bouncing around ideas. To be frank I find the constraints of a forum thread akin to shackles; I'm not free to flow from one idea to the next creating a trail of loosely related nonsense that had everybody involved excited about whatever the topic of the moment could have been. This thread is a hall-of-mirrors filled only with those to whom doom seems my old destination, my canvas ruined where I would normally verbally liter a menagerie of ideas into something you could be thinking about for days.
It's truly a dismal shame that such mellifluousness is frowned upon so widely. Hundreds of thousands of words and they'd have me sustain only so few.
[QUOTE=bigbadrick;29691552]It doesn't matter what you [I]think[/I] is possible, it just isn't.
Altering the code of published game is illegal, and even ignoring that, you don't have the skills to make the kinds of changes required for it.
Assuming you do, you will be the only one able to play it as anyone else who would attempt to connect wouldn't, because the files on the server are different than the ones on their machine.
Even if they could, the server would have to be VAC insecure, and only illegals or idiots join those servers.
Lua scripts and DLLs are not going to make the limits go away, Your custom engine is a pipe dream.[/QUOTE]
Everything you just said has been discussed in great detail previously. I'm not asking for your approval or validation, but if you have anything to offer towards the ends of an "unsafe" engine please feel free to contribute.
:frog:
[IMG]http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb139/chrishind10/gtfo.png[/IMG]
Really, do it.
man this entire thread
[QUOTE=Mike Tyson;29689001]If VAC is disabled, im not sure if you can still get VAC'D as I never wanted to try.[/QUOTE]
I think you can still receive the ban, but the server allows you to join.
OP is a troll.
/thread
[QUOTE=MutantBadger;29689369]If EP2 models are in your directory without you owning the game you're technically using content from a game you do not own. With that, it is not exactly an ok thing to do.
[editline]7th May 2011[/editline]
Model replacements are a workaround, however. After all, they are not "owned" by anyone.[/QUOTE]
You still will not get banned for it.
[editline]8th May 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=hexpunK;29693688]I think you can still receive the ban, but the server allows you to join.[/QUOTE]
I've cheated on a non vac server once in the past, nothing happened.
OP, when almost an entire thread (among which one poster who claims to have 15 years of experience) tells you that something is impossible or not worth the trouble, do try and consider that you might actually be wasting your time rather than brushing everyone off as uncooperative.
[QUOTE=Thingy Person;29694258]OP, when almost an entire thread (among which one poster who claims to have 15 years of experience) tells you that something is impossible or not worth the trouble, do try and consider that you might actually be wasting your time rather than brushing everyone off as uncooperative.[/QUOTE]
I haven't claimed to have 15 years of experience, I was talking about Valve :v:
[QUOTE=saiko.kaiten;29686314]Mockery.
Pointless post.
Implying "lurk more."
Unhelpful and unthought.
Hasn't given the question serious thought.
I found this one to be quite hilarious as well as repetitive.
This one deserved a cookie.
Still beating the drum and not making a beat.
A learned poster that is still answering with the rhetoric of daddy knows best.
I more than understand what I'm being told; I'm being told that by all that those having posted thus far know there currently exists no method by which the arbitrary limits which cause hard, irrecoverable faults within the SrcDS can be changed to values residing outside the operable range given the hardware on which the SrcDS is ran. Please understand that I'm not yet satisfied with this answer; from what I know of the Source engine the limits are simple integer variables (or the like) and they can be changed to higher values without the change or the exceeding of previous values causing irrecoverable faults (server crashes).
I do thank you, however, for your time and your input. Perhaps I should expand my question; has anybody experimented with replacing the core game files for any Source based game with the files of another to effect the core game-play mechanics? If so, with what level of success?[/QUOTE]
Holy shit is this a post contest?
Honestly, I don't think that the word "custom engine" is the correct word used here.
Infinite arguments! this thread is funny
You could quite easily raise the limits on the server, but unless you forced your clients to install the modified engine as well, it would just cause them to crash instead.
[QUOTE=saiko.kaiten;29690757]
There we go! OK, there's a few things I haven't found anything on, not even sure if I'm even thinking about some real thing or just some fluke of a 200 tick/1k fps server, but the things I know are real are welds and constraints. Not sure which or if it's both, but there's a point where another weld or constraint kills the server. Another quick fix is actually a speed/mass/force issue where super massive objects are utterly incapable of high speed even over the diagonal length of a full-grid map. The edicts thing is an issue again, even though you can raise it the hardcoded limit seems to still be there, just higher. Same for a lot of other CVARs. I can only detonate about 400 barrels at once without crashing the server due to no free edicts error and that's up from 100.
As for map size limits, that'd be great to fix, but for now i'm using a 1/300th skybox simulating a 25 mile radius. I'm still working on it, but it's got a river and half a forest with some city bits off in the distance. Pretty rad for a map that I never work on. Brushes? Why the [i]hell[/i] can't i have a brush within 64 units of the grid boundry? Everytime it's just error city. Not that a few feet matter compared to the 25 mile illusion, but still.
[/QUOTE]
- The map you're describing sounds like a map I'd love to try out sometime, have you released it?
- The map size limit is suspiciously 32,768 in each direction from 0,0,0, and by suspiciously, I mean that world coordinates are probably stored in a 16-bit integer. That would be a system-wide fix, and could possibly double the size of .bsp's because of the increase in data type size. I don't think we're going to see this one going away unfortunately.
- In-game entity speed is a problem for all game engines because collision detection needs to be able to tell if an object passed through another object between ticks, and so I think engine writers clamp the maximum velocity so that entities don't just jump through walls when they move 100 units per tick. I actually don't know if source compensates for this, but I think what I'm saying is that this could be an "arbitrary" limit that covers up a larger engine problem, and probably won't be changed.
- I have no idea what's up with the limits on welds, constraints, and edicts, but if the original source engine makers thought it was a good idea to store map coordinates as 16-bit words, they probably thought it was a good idea to use fixed arrays for these items.
If you really want to get the engine changed in these ways, I really recommend emailing the valve guys. I haven't emailed them myself, but according to [url=http://www.facepunch.com/threads/620064-The-quot-I-EMAILED-SOMEBODY-AT-VALVE!-quot-thread-post-your-questions-and-replies-here]this thread[/url] Gabe Newell tends to forward relevant questions to the right place.
[QUOTE=saiko.kaiten;29690757]
Nope, can't get rid of me that easily. I'm a mechanic in the Army, my skin is so thick I peel off excess layers like sticky notes. (That's a joke/metaphor/analog. I'm not really a sticky-note pad. Thought I might have to clarify that.)[/QUOTE]
Haha I'm envious, not only are you NOT phased by these script kiddies, you're trolling them in the most infuriating way possible, to the point where they can only blubber out incoherent frog macros. I'm just gonna sit back and watch (I need a popcorn emoticon...)
[QUOTE=saiko.kaiten;29691625][quote=Juniez;29691232]He can still be formal without seeming egotistical and "holier than thou".[/quote]Ever dress in a tuxedo and go to a sports bar? This is like that. The dude in the tux just wanted to relax after work where he felt like he could hang out but the hairy-backed smelly guy painted red and yellow thinks Mr. Tuxedo is acting all high and mighty because he's wearing a shirt. I tried to set a civil decorum, you came in wearing sweat and paint. Why can't we all just watch the fucking game?[/QUOTE]
Oh lol this is hardly helping your position when it comes to denying your high horse
[QUOTE=Chrisknyfe;29698051]Haha I'm envious, not only are you NOT phased by these script kiddies, you're trolling them in the most infuriating way possible, to the point where they can only blubber out incoherent frog macros. I'm just gonna sit back and watch (I need a popcorn emoticon...)[/QUOTE]
I don't have anything against you but I'm going to run on speculation. I've seen something like this tons of times before, seeing you and a couple of your posts here in this thread I wouldn't be so surprised if you're either the OP or working alongside the OP outside the thread.
Already this thread has turned to hell because the OP seems unwilling to actually listen to reason while disputing claims without any evidence by folks who were willing to spend their time helping him out.
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