[QUOTE=Lucinice;39987465]Treant's ult icon is a recolour of frostbite[/QUOTE]
holy shit
[IMG]http://puu.sh/2lgBR/702c7bb2f2[/IMG][IMG]http://puu.sh/2lgC5/bcd524b732[/IMG]
I never noticed
I'm still waiting for that 1 QoP set that was left out a few patches ago.
Also I'm sad that the Spectre set didn't get in. It probably will sooner or later.
[QUOTE=Jetamo;39986962]These things, they take time.[/QUOTE]
they wouldn't if valve didn't waste time on bullshit
Would you people rather have uninteresting/rushed heroes released every 3 weeks?
[QUOTE=butters757;39983826]
New courier: Snowl:
[t]http://media.steampowered.com//apps//205790//icons//econ//items//courier//snowl//snowl_large.5b2baec0d54277b7df0a934055f29f03160ae753.png[/t]
[/QUOTE]
D'awwwwwwwwwwww.
I could never kill such a courier. D:
[QUOTE=uber.;39989290]D'awwwwwwwwwwww.
I could never kill such a courier. D:[/QUOTE]
What about the Donkey and Hell Hound?
Oh man bugfixes and game polish fucking Valve are you even trying
[QUOTE=Obvious Shizz;39989309]What about the Donkey and Hell Hound?[/QUOTE]
No owl? Wreck em hard, chop chop!
[QUOTE=Bordellimies;39989288]Would you people rather have uninteresting/rushed heroes released every 3 weeks?[/QUOTE]
i don't think that was my point but whatever really
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;39988826]they wouldn't if valve didn't waste time on bullshit[/QUOTE]
Let's see, what could you possibly mean by bullshit.
Tutorial? They need to work on this for new players.
Hero builds ingame? Really good idea, people already use it in the shift-tab overlay, so why not actually ingame?
Special couriers for tournaments? Takes at the most ONE guy to look over, and add the particles and so forth.
All these sets from the Workshop? Because of how Valve's streamlined the whole thing, it's very easy for them to test sets ingame now, so this doesn't take up much time. Like, really, it's almost as fast as modding Skyrim as far as testing these ingame are now thanks to the compiler.
They're working on three/four heroes at the same time right now, Bristlebog, Skywrath, Abaddon and Legion Commander. And that is a lot of shit they need to do. They need to do concept art, modeling, textures, making sure it's in polylimit/acceptable, particles, the actual ingame coding for the abilities, and voice acting. That's a lot of fucking shit.
They're probably delaying heroes right now if anything so they can release two or more at the same time before they go on their yearly company vacation.
id rather wait a while to have a really good release (even though it pains me to wait for legion commander) than have shitty bug-ridden releases
Maybe thats why they are holding off ? We will still get bug-ridden heroes, Dota is still beta after all and it's acceptable and much easier for us to catch those bits, as a huge audience, to ensure no bug is left what-so-ever and possibly they get fixed in huge bunches so that particular parts of the game can be layed off and not worried about, allowing coding team to focus elsewhere.
6.78 might be in the works, so instead of releasing heroes prior to it and then bug-fixing AND changing stuff accordingly they'll just drop the bomb.
+Legion Commander and Skywrath are pretty fresh, so they might be targets of some reworks.
+ Bristleback/bog was supposed to get some tweaks due to his dominant presence.
+ Maybe Abaddon will get something neat done to him too!
Easter is coming in a week, I guess another event gamemode along with new heroes.
[QUOTE=Lance99;39993105]Easter is coming in a week, I guess another event gamemode along with new heroes.[/QUOTE]
easter isnt really a major holiday like x-mas or hallowen.
not only that, but it would require valve doing some actual work.
Hue hue hue hue
So why is the test client updating again?
[QUOTE=Lucinice;39993194]So why is the test client updating again?[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=79139"]Update 2[/URL]
[URL="http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=79152"]Update 3[/URL]
[QUOTE=Jetamo;39990242]Tutorial? They need to work on this for new players.[/QUOTE]
I learned to play Dota2 just fine without any DK tutorial, and I was as newb as you could get in DotA. But I learned fast, thanks to simple browsing of Dota2wiki/Playdota official site, some spectating of live games, and that's basically it.
[QUOTE=Jetamo;39990242]Hero builds ingame? Really good idea, people already use it in the shift-tab overlay, so why not actually ingame?[/QUOTE]
Learning what items to build, and when, is part of learning how to play. Besides, there is this sidewards ?-button in the shop which brings even more item options to the Shop, and I always use it to navigate around through items.
Not once have I used Hero Builds to go by, I have just learned what items work on which Heroes and so forth, and which items are generally good items and.. so forth, again.
[QUOTE=Jetamo;39990242]Special couriers for tournaments? Takes at the most ONE guy to look over, and add the particles and so forth.[/QUOTE]
Okay? Not even sure what you even said but yeah the purchasing of Tourney tickets is fine.
[QUOTE=Jetamo;39990242]All these sets from the Workshop? Because of how Valve's streamlined the whole thing, it's very easy for them to test sets ingame now, so this doesn't take up much time. Like, really, it's almost as fast as modding Skyrim as far as testing these ingame are now thanks to the compiler.[/QUOTE]
It would look a bit different if most of the sets were made by Valve. They are mostly better at creating cool additional content for their games, although some exceptional community creations also stand out.
Another problem with Workshop, or with Dota2's Workshop is that, the distribution of items is very uneven, and it doesn't seem to make any turn for the better.
Community members favor some Heroes more than the others, and some Heroes are easier to make items for, so it creates a mess in the long run. Or do you just completely fucking disagree?
Also, you wouldn't believe how stuffed my Dota2 backpack is, and half of the items are just paperweights, a whopping 5 pages of them. Either duplicates, or just items that don't even compare to their default counterparts.
[QUOTE=Jetamo;39990242]They're working on three/four heroes at the same time right now, Bristlebog, Skywrath, Abaddon and Legion Commander. And that is a lot of shit they need to do. They need to do concept art, modeling, textures, making sure it's in polylimit/acceptable, particles, the actual ingame coding for the abilities, and voice acting. That's a lot of fucking shit.
They're probably delaying heroes right now if anything so they can release two or more at the same time before they go on their yearly company vacation.[/quote]
Yes indeed it's some work to be done. Not to mention some other projects inside Valve, maybe something Half-life related..
But still for fuck's sake if I could trade all the Snowls, Greevils and the excessive item sets for certain Heroes like Axe, Juggernaut and Omniknight who have 10 of them, for the rest of unfinished Heroes, I would do the trade in a heartbeat.
You want them to make the game Harder for new players?
Seriously?
[quote]Learning what items to build, and when, is part of learning how to play. Besides, there is this sidewards ?-button in the shop which brings even more item options to the Shop, and I always use it to navigate around through items.
Not once have I used Hero Builds to go by, I have just learned what items work on which Heroes and so forth, and which items are generally good items and.. so forth, again[/quote]
You have no idea, as a new player, what these items do, and your suggestion if they're having problems is to open the panel to add even more items they don't know how to use to an already intimidating interface.
This sounds like "Back in my day, we walked uphill both ways to school, you don't need no car!" There's no reason Dota can't be approachable. Making it hard to get into for the sake of making it hard to get into is terrible.
My only problem with the tutorial was that Dragon Knight leveled Breathe Fire instead of Stun first.
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;40029342]You have no idea, as a new player, what these items do, and your suggestion if they're having problems is to open the panel to add even more items they don't know how to use to an already intimidating interface.
This sounds like "Back in my day, we walked uphill both ways to school, you don't need no car!" There's no reason Dota can't be approachable. Making it hard to get into for the sake of making it hard to get into is terrible.[/QUOTE]
I didn't even buy any items in my first game. I had no idea what any of them did.
[QUOTE=HandsomeFrog;40030518]My only problem with the tutorial was that Dragon Knight leveled Breathe Fire instead of Stun first.[/QUOTE]
It's first map of at least 2 know for now for Tutorial.
If players were to learn basics of actual gameplay right away, Valve would just make Coop vs AI with 4/5 AI, 1 human player mode where constant tips/info/goals are pinged/marked.
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;40029342]You have no idea, as a new player, what these items do, and your suggestion if they're having problems is to open the panel to add even more items they don't know how to use to an already intimidating interface.
This sounds like "Back in my day, we walked uphill both ways to school, you don't need no car!" There's no reason Dota can't be approachable. Making it hard to get into for the sake of making it hard to get into is terrible.[/QUOTE]
But it wasn't hard to get into 6 months ago!
I certainly didn't need any DK tutorials or in-game Hero builds to teach me Dota2, which quite frankly is just a simple [i]video game.[/i]
Any newbie could just spectate some high-skill live games to see what items some certain Heroes build, then try them out for themselves, or check out Valve's Dota2wiki.
Also you have to play quite a few matches (like 200) before you get the hang of Dota2, anyway.. Like acquiring gold for these items faster before the match ends.
[editline]25th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Malvodion;40029026]You want them to make the game Harder for new players?
Seriously?[/QUOTE]
again, it was almost easier to get into 6 months ago than it is now. (mainly due to less Heroes in the game, but still.)
Gekko what the hell are you on about, 6 months ago I was being mentored into the game and it was fucking difficult for me to understand, as somebody who has NEVER played a moba strategy before. It doesn't need to be made harder, it's hard enough already.
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;40032299]But it wasn't hard to get into 6 months ago!
I certainly didn't need any DK tutorials or in-game Hero builds to teach me Dota2, which quite frankly is just a simple [i]video game.[/i]
Any newbie could just spectate some high-skill live games to see what items some certain Heroes build, then try them out for themselves, or check out Valve's Dota2wiki.
Also you have to play quite a few matches (like 200) before you get the hang of Dota2, anyway.. Like acquiring gold for these items faster before the match ends.
[editline]25th March 2013[/editline]
again, it was almost easier to get into 6 months ago than it is now. (mainly due to less Heroes in the game, but still.)[/QUOTE]
The solution is simple:
1- You are Rambo. You like games in hardcore mode even if you don´t know what "game" means (you are Rambo, you dont have time for that shit). You play the game normally and learn through frustartion, what makes your Rambo-soul burn on adredaline until you finally learn how to play every single heroe of the game after expending your Rambo-life on it. This is the way you, a lot of players, and me did it. Dont use the guides/tutorials then
2-You are a guy that cannot expend too much time learning every single heroe and that doesn´t mind not being Rambo so he can stand having some help. You can active the help if you want, it´s not like pop-ups all over your game all the time no matter what. this is also me, now that I want to try some new heroes, and this is my friends, that can use my own heroe builds so they have more fun and I can actually help them without being asked what should they choose every 13 seconds.
3 - I KNOW people that even asked me how to turn up the volume and that got his way out of dota when the "Play" button under the heroe in the match was ready. Also asked me how to buy items and where the shop button was. And that people play other games, they are not new.
So yeah, tutorials that CAN be activated, just like the guides and that NOT pop up in your face unless you want dont harm, in my opinion.
[QUOTE=HandsomeFrog;40030518]My only problem with the tutorial was that Dragon Knight leveled Breathe Fire instead of Stun first.[/QUOTE]
It makes sense in the context of the tutorial, since you begin to learn the PVE mechanics first and only then do you go onto pvp, and lets be honest having new players leveling the stun early would have them use it against creeps and that would be a terrible lesson to teach.
[QUOTE=Petachepas;40045537]The solution is simple:
1- You are Rambo. You like games in hardcore mode even if you don´t know what "game" means (you are Rambo, you dont have time for that shit). You play the game normally and learn through frustartion, what makes your Rambo-soul burn on adredaline until you finally learn how to play every single heroe of the game after expending your Rambo-life on it. This is the way you, a lot of players, and me did it. Dont use the guides/tutorials then
2-You are a guy that cannot expend too much time learning every single heroe and that doesn´t mind not being Rambo so he can stand having some help. You can active the help if you want, it´s not like pop-ups all over your game all the time no matter what. this is also me, now that I want to try some new heroes, and this is my friends, that can use my own heroe builds so they have more fun and I can actually help them without being asked what should they choose every 13 seconds.
3 - I KNOW people that even asked me how to turn up the volume and that got his way out of dota when the "Play" button under the heroe in the match was ready. Also asked me how to buy items and where the shop button was. And that people play other games, they are not new.
So yeah, tutorials that CAN be activated, just like the guides and that NOT pop up in your face unless you want dont harm, in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
I suppose so..
But Valve is going to have to work REALLY hard, and fast, to have enough of those little tutorial gameplay scenarios to cover some things up for the newbie, like;
navigating through dense jungle paths, and playing around with Fog of War,
assisting in a gank (a scripted funny gank-scenario with Nyx[bot]+Gondar[newb], anyone?),
pushing a tower,
bottling up a rune and using it,
some clever examples of ward placement,
etc etc.
I mean, Valve ought to have all those tutorials up and running ready by the time this game gets out, or when all the Heroes are out.. If they want to make the game as approachable as possible for the newbies who may not have the wits or the guts to figure out Dota2 otherwise.
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;40048114]I suppose so..
But Valve is going to have to work REALLY hard, and fast, to have enough of those little tutorial gameplay scenarios to cover some things up for the newbie, like;
navigating through dense jungle paths, and playing around with Fog of War,
assisting in a gank (a scripted funny gank-scenario with Nyx[bot]+Gondar[newb], anyone?),
pushing a tower,
bottling up a rune and using it,
some clever examples of ward placement,
etc etc.
I mean, Valve ought to have all those tutorials up and running ready by the time this game gets out, or when all the Heroes are out.. If they want to make the game as approachable as possible for the newbies who may not have the wits or the guts to figure out Dota2 otherwise.[/QUOTE]
Why? Does Valve also has to teach everyone what to do against a fed Phantom Lancer? Or when the enemy is doing Roshan?
No man, no. Just think that people can get into a moba game without having played one in their entire life, so they need the basics: movement, attacks/spells (cooldown/mana), gold/items (hence last hits) and little more.
If they end up doing too many tutorials wouldnt be bad either, but it will be ready with 1 or 2 more tutorials.
Also, has anyone thought about the future heroes development? I mean, the old ones were limited to WC3, but they are not anymore. What will Icefrog do? Will he still do heroes for WC3 and put them in dota 2, or will he try new codes for dota 2 even if they wont be able to be used in dota 1, so both game´s heroes will become slowly differents?
I have been wondering this for a while
[QUOTE=Atlascore;40048564]Uh, being able to use runes, pushing towers, and assisting in ganks are all a huge part of Dota and should be taught in tutorials, what to do against a fed phantom lancer isn't comparable as it isn't one of Dota's major mechanics.[/QUOTE]
Uh, he talked about more things than just what you put there. So uh.
Runes, towers and static events need tutorials or at least a guide
But how to gank or how to teamfight? You can´t put that in a tutorial covering it completely, each heroe has his own technique.
So what I said: cover general moba things with the tutorials, add some distinctive mechanics dota 2 has that other mobas dont (fog/vision, even involving tree destruction, runes), but the actual gameplay can´t be recreated.
Actually you can do a tutorial of whatever you want, it will be possible. I started supporting the tutorials and ended up saying too many would be bad. My fault guys, sorry about this
I think that general explanations are better than real life simulations, and that ganks/teamfights will have their own show in bot practices, so they dont need tutorials
[QUOTE=Petachepas;40048304]Why? Does Valve also has to teach everyone what to do against a fed Phantom Lancer? Or when the enemy is doing Roshan?
No man, no. Just think that people can get into a moba game without having played one in their entire life, so they need the basics: movement, attacks/spells (cooldown/mana), gold/items (hence last hits) and little more.[/QUOTE]
Dude I was all about that in my previous posts, but it turns out Dota2 is harder to learn than you think if you really aren't the type who immediately studies important keybindings, knows that edge-panning is mandatory, starts to quickly learn about spells/items etc because maybe he has known about DotA before, just not played it yet until Dota2.
[editline]26th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Petachepas;40048970]Uh, he talked about more things than just what you put there. So uh.
Runes, towers and static events need tutorials or at least a guide
But how to gank or how to teamfight? You can´t put that in a tutorial covering it completely, each heroe has his own technique.
So what I said: cover general moba things with the tutorials, add some distinctive mechanics dota 2 has that other mobas dont (fog/vision, even involving tree destruction, runes), but the actual gameplay can´t be recreated.
Actually you can do a tutorial of whatever you want, it will be possible. I started supporting the tutorials and ended up saying too many would be bad. My fault guys, sorry about this
I think that general explanations are better than real life simulations, and that ganks/teamfights will have their own show in bot practices, so they dont need tutorials[/QUOTE]
Yeah also good points I guess.
But as far as Valve is concerned.. Hell I don't know what they want to do with the Tutorial idea that is now out there in the form of the DK tutorial, like a whole god damned single-player campaign maybe?
Hopefully not, so yeah there doesn't have to be that many tutorials.
Anyway, the whole tutorial-type deal has to be tight packed for the newbie to go through, or else it's kinda pointless. Much like some of the pointless youtube-video demonstrations of how spells work in the Learn-tab; some of them ARE pointless few-second videos where Wisp glows for a second, no implication of increased attack speed or reduced damage taken whatsoever. just one example
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