The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim "And your beard's beard has beards too" - Games

[QUOTE=Mastahamma;28685177]Could use some octaves and some things to know where the pauses are, but still pretty nice.[/QUOTE] Just did it on my guitar, the octaves are easy to figure out once you're playing so I didn't bother.

I'm going to PAX Prime. :buddy:

[QUOTE=Mastahamma;28681103]It's already confirmed, all original races are going to be back.[/QUOTE] I know, i was talking about seeing Argonian NPCs in Skyrim, though. You don't really see lizard people in snowy environments...

It won't be on steam in the first place. They will probably release it after a while though, like with Oblivion.

[QUOTE=proch;28698308]It won't be on steam in the first place. They will probably release it after a while though, like with Oblivion.[/QUOTE] Fallout: New Vegas was on Steam when it first released, I don't see why Skyrim wouldn't.

Also I hope Skyrim doesn't end up being a gigantic turd like Oblivion was. :(

[QUOTE=Riutet;28699169]Also I hope Skyrim doesn't end up being a gigantic turd like Oblivion was. :([/QUOTE] I loved oblivion though. :frown:

[QUOTE=Murdoco;28699333]I loved oblivion though. :frown:[/QUOTE] I liked the exploration, even though in the end I was largely just disappointed because there was nothing worthwhile other than the odd easter egg. It was definitely a huge step back from Morrowind, when really it should have been a great improvement. It was a terrible game in mostly every area, that I enjoyed for what it was. But I'll be damned if I'll call it a good game, and double damned if I don't want them to make some serious changes to get the series back on track.

I don't see how oblivion wasn't a good game, sure morrowind was better about a few things but I still love Oblivion and playthrough it quite a lot.

Oblivion wasn't [b]THAT[/b] bad.

Is there gonna be a live stream of PAX? like there was last year?

[QUOTE=Riutet;28699553]I liked the exploration, even though in the end I was largely just disappointed because there was nothing worthwhile other than the odd easter egg. It was definitely a huge step back from Morrowind, when really it should have been a great improvement. It was a terrible game in mostly every area, that I enjoyed for what it was. But I'll be damned if I'll call it a good game, and double damned if I don't want them to make some serious changes to get the series back on track.[/QUOTE] honestly if you can call oblivion a terrible game and morrowind a good game you've got problems I'm not gonna get into the specifics of this rivalry between games because I find it fucking pathetic, but the fact of the matter is they aren't significantly different enough for you to love one and hate the other.

[QUOTE=evilweazel;28699903]I don't see how oblivion wasn't a good game, sure morrowind was better about a few things but I still love Oblivion and playthrough it quite a lot.[/QUOTE] Let's just break it down now. [b]Combat:[/b] The combat was atrocious, largely in part due to the level scaling system and also the retarded AI. You can beat every enemy in the game at any level guaranteed by spamming M1 and chugging heals, provided you were carrying a couple of potions with you there was no real way you could die, sliding the difficulty slider to the far right just meant fights took longer and you needed more pots. Combat amounts to button mashing and spamming heals, this is the kind of thing you expect out of a hack and slash game, not an RPG. Also provided there wasn't an enemy with a ranged attack (mages and archers were far and few between) fighting against you all you had to do to win was jump on a platform and use a ranged attack. You'd think they'd at the very least give every enemy either a ranged secondary attack or the sense to run away when they can't reach you, I'd say "Also give them the ability to climb up platforms and jump" but they can't even make ladders work, can't expect them to get that right. [b]Stats:[/b] Shouldn't even need to say it, they fucked up big time, keep your potions on hand and no matter how you allocated your stat points, you're immortal. There aren't really any worthwhile non-combat stats (personality attribute and speechcraft anyone? Alchemy? What's that?). I think the only stat checks I can remember were when you were trying to pick some locks, considering that combat stats are the only stats that matter and that you can break the combat system without even having to get creative, combat stats being invalid means that the stat system as a whole is invalid. The only purpose increasing your stats serves is that you make the game less tedious, increased speed for getting around etc. I should also point out that you don't even need to use potions to break the combat, you just need to kite and attack whenever the enemy misses, which covers mostly every situation in the game except a few I distinctly remember where you get rushed indoors and there's no room to kite. [b]Story/Lore:[/b] Most of the game was lore rape, story was your average popadwarf shit. I expected the world to be divided and for the races to have some unique shit going on, there's a ton of things from the lore they could have used to create some varied and interesting situations in Cyrodiil, but they didn't. Honestly felt like a fairly tale world thought up by a child. Or a Toddler. [b]World in general:[/b] More like turd in general, a couple of interesting locations, some nice easter eggs and references, otherwise some frankly atrociously designed cities and towns, copy paste dungeons and caves. Why was the imperial city so small? Why is everything so perfect? Where's the farmland anywhere? (Plantation outside of skingrad doesn't count :v:) Level scaling ruins the danger of the world too. Felt like less of a world that you're exploring and more of a world that was designed specifically for you. [b]NPC Interaction:[/b] They don't do shit unless it's part of a quest, they rarely have anything interesting to say in or out of dialogue, potato faces, the voices. Dialogue dispensers all of them. [b]Quests:[/b] For the large part, it's something you'd expect out of an MMO, fetch quests everywhere and just poor quest design, lack of story to back up a lot of them too. The Thieves' Guild questline and the Dark Brotherhood questline stand out as being not atrocious questlines, but even then they're not that good. [b]Roleplaying:[/b] Where are the stat checks Bethesda? Huh? Huh? Why are stats so irrelevant Bethesda? Huh? Huh? Why is the world so inconsistent Bethesda? Huh? Huh? Why can I be the equivalent of a mouse and fight like a herp, and still take out menly fighter men dressed head to toe in armour Bethesda? Why do I have to steal a staff that belongs to me Bethesda? Why? Where's the consistency? Why don't stats matter? Choice and consequence? I get to choose between not taking a quest or taking a quest or killing the questgiver, no consequence. Why is there no alternate way to complete 95 percent of all the quests? Why is the game a poor, mindless action/adventure game? And then smaller shit like having the quest compass do everything for you, used to be you had to follow directions and observe the landscape to find your way around, you had to pay attention to what was said and be bit of a detective to find things. But now you just follow that quest marker, minimal amount of clues or navigation, the game is designed so that you're supposed to use the quest compass half the time. Also, why fast travel when you can ride? [editline]20th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Mister Cool;28700243]Oblivion wasn't [b]THAT[/b] bad.[/QUOTE] Yes it was. [editline]20th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Generic.Monk;28700303]honestly if you can call oblivion a terrible game and morrowind a good game you've got problems[/quote] My only problem is that I'm right. :smug: [quote]I'm not gonna get into the specifics of this rivalry between games because I find it fucking pathetic[/quote] Sure is weaseling out of explaining your reasoning. [quote]but the fact of the matter is they aren't significantly different enough for you to love one and hate the other.[/QUOTE] Morrowind shares some of Oblivion's issues, but more than makes up for it by presenting an incredibly interesting and quite consistent world, as well as some great lore. It's by no means a perfect game, quite flawed in fact, but it does a few things extremely well, well enough to make the things it doesn't do well a minor issue, something you're willing to put up with to enjoy the other features, whereas Oblivion does mostly everything bad, it's redeeming features being mediocre at best. Only reason I didn't quit a couple of hours into the game was because I'm a fan of open world games and we get so few of them. :(

Consoles.

I hope they fix the speed at which ragdolls fall. I don't want some dead guy falling slower than a guy with a parachute.

[QUOTE=Riutet;28701148]Let's just break it down now. :words: :words: :words: and more :words: Also, why fast travel when you can ride?[/QUOTE] Well, at least it was made to be very mod-able, and a lot of mods address the game's many problems.

[QUOTE=Fhenexx;28702415]Well, at least it was made to be very mod-able, and a lot of mods address the game's many problems.[/QUOTE] That's true to an extent. Oblivion's most redeeming feature isn't in the game itself, but in how easy modding for it is, some of Oblivion's issues have already been addressed in the form of mods but I find it's really only combat and interesting world locations that have been fixed. Also the potato faces and silly generic bodies. Nehrim is supposed to be better than vanilla Oblivion I've been told, not played it yet, that's pretty cool if it's true, a group of modders beating a big studio at their own game, even if that studio happens to be Bethesda.

I disagree with you, mainly because I thought the Dark Brotherhood storyline was great. Especially that one prison quest, where you can't let anyone see you. The Morag Tong quests aren't as fun, I think, because there's no real penalty for getting caught. I'm excited to see what they'll do for Skyrim.

[QUOTE=Penultimate;28703671]I disagree with you, mainly because I thought the Dark Brotherhood storyline was great. Especially that one prison quest, where you can't let anyone see you. The Morag Tong quests aren't as fun, I think, because there's no real penalty for getting caught. I'm excited to see what they'll do for Skyrim.[/QUOTE] I liked that prison quest in particular, it was just sort of poorly executed, but it was definitely the kind of thing I would have liked to have seen more of, shame it was really just an exception. The Dark Brotherhood was one of the better questlines in the game, if all the quests were up to that level of quality I probably wouldn't think of Oblivion as a turd. [sp]It'd still be a bad game though :V [/sp]

[QUOTE=Murdoco;28699333]I loved oblivion though. :frown:[/QUOTE] Oblivion was undoubtedly a great game, BUT when I think about "what I'd like in skyrim" It'll be "I'd Like ____ from Morrowind and ____ from Daggerfall and _____ from Arena" yet I cannot think of a single remarkable feature or aspect that I'd like to see from Oblivion. As a whole, Oblivion was an incredible game, but like I said, there's very little remarkable about it, every aspect it brought to the table has since been improved upon by some other game, and yet it failed to deliver some of the amazing and timeless game design aspects that the previous titles had done.

Oblivion: Good story Good gameplay Good music Horrible engine Horrible animations Horrible voice acting I give it a 6/10 WITHOUT MODS With mods I give it a 12/10.

[QUOTE=Raijin;28704631]Oblivion: Good story Good gameplay[/quote] [img]http://i.cubeupload.com/fvtmm1.png[/img] [quote]Good music Horrible engine Horrible animations Horrible voice acting[/quote] 1x agree [quote]I give it a 6/10 WITHOUT MODS With mods I give it a 12/10.[/QUOTE] [img]http://i.cubeupload.com/igYM2n.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;28704287]Oblivion was undoubtedly a great game, BUT when I think about "what I'd like in skyrim" It'll be "I'd Like ____ from Morrowind and ____ from Daggerfall and _____ from Arena" yet I cannot think of a single remarkable feature or aspect that I'd like to see from Oblivion. [/QUOTE] ...what features would you want to see from Arena?

I don't understand the significance of those mildly creepy images, so I'll give you a heart.

[QUOTE=Raijin;28704896]I don't understand the significance of those mildly creepy images, so I'll give you a heart.[/QUOTE] I'll give you my heart too, don't go breaking it on me.

Would lack of evil creatures pouring out of the gates to Oblivion be blamed on the engine or the general execution of the idea? I mean, the gates were barely an issue, you could have a picnic near them and you'd be safe.

The only thing that really made Oblivion a worse game than Morrowind was two things. The atmosphere of the game and the level scaling. Morrowind felt unique, with weird landscapes, flora and sounds. Oblivion is just more of the same old fantasy world. Which is fine I guess, but you do get bored of it faster. But they showed that they know how to make that special atmosphere still with Shivering Isles, which made me very happy. The level scaling is the biggest problem with Oblivion. Level scaling can work, like it did in Fallout 3, but the amount of it in Oblivion just ruined it. And because of the level scaling you could not find unique items lying in any dungeons. I think there might have been one or two things, while there where lots of them in Morrowind. Sneaking into a cave, getting past enemies with higher level than you, to find a unique sword wedged between two rocks in a seemingly random location? That is the makings of a fun game. Sneaking into a cave with the same bandits that are everywhere else, with the same level as you, finding a chest containing fifteen gold and a rusty dagger? Not so fun. And the combat was less than ideal, but not bad. While the combat in Morrowind was better from a dice toss perspective, it was not that fun at lower levels. And it probably put off a lot of people from playing it. But Oblivion had too much of a "smash the button!" kind of combat, so hearing that they are making it more tactical pleases me. Mount and Blade has shown that you can have a cool and good combat experience that makes sense in an RPG without making it so that your bad hits don't hit at all. If the dice roll badly you just deal less damage. Anyway, my point is that Oblivion was not a bad game. They just tried out a few things that didn't work so well. They expanded on that in Fallout 3, and made things work a lot better. That is why I am confident that Skyrim will be awesome. Bethesda learns from their mistakes, and they try to push their games forward, instead of just making the same game over and over again. And if the game ends up sucking because of some weird features, those will be fixed by mods. Playing Oblivion with Deadly Reflex, Unique Landscapes and OOO changes the game dramatically.

[QUOTE=Durandir;28705251]But they showed that they know how to make that special atmosphere still with Shivering Isles, which made me very happy.[/quote] [quote]Level scaling can work, like it did in Fallout 3[/quote] [quote]Fallout 3[/quote] [quote]and made things work a lot better.[/quote] [quote]Bethesda learns from their mistakes [/QUOTE] [img]http://i.cubeupload.com/jfSUM6.jpg[/img] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("dumb image macro" - Lithifold))[/highlight]

Riutet, stop with the stupid image.

[quote=engine article]Some open world games go overboard with these side activities and stray too far from the main storyline. Bethesda is aware of this pitfall and is actively engaged in preventing the feeling of being overwhelmed by the Radiant Story missions. [/quote] This sort of worried me. Don't you want the side activities to distract you... as much as possible... from the main quest? I mean as long as those procedural stories don't get blatantly repetitive like they are in games like Red Dead, I say the depth is a good thing. I really want them to pull through on this aspect. In all realness, its those side quests and procedural occurrences that really give the game its depth and immersion, at least for me. [QUOTE=Durandir;28705251]The only thing that really made Oblivion a worse game than Morrowind was two things. The atmosphere of the game and the level scaling. [/QUOTE] Be careful with your wording there. In certain context Oblivion is worse than its predecessor, but all round its a worthy sequel, which is what I think you're trying to say. In some aspects its excels over morrowind. After all, the team did achieve their design goals in making Oblivion's environment seem less fantastic and more normalized. It really seems like a matter of preference to me. Its not like Oblivion's atmosphere was inconsistent or anything (unless you were making a stretch and expecting it to be like morrowind).