BioShock Infinite thread VII: I appreciate a lady, who appreciates value! - Games

So I have a question. [sp]Within the first minutes of the game, in the lighthouse, there is a dead man with a sign saying "Don't disappoint us." Did I miss any information about who he was or didn't we get any? It's not very important, but I am sort of obsessed with details like that.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Killuah;40144466]I'm not making rules, I'm using my imagination to think about alternatives. It's fun. It's speculation. It's inspiration. And calling them tiers is more of a play on words, it just fits so nicely to "tears".[/QUOTE] Okay than if you're playing around with the rules why are you critizing them for when you yourself break them with your own ideas? Within the game it follows it's own rules just fine. [editline]3rd April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Killuah;40144475]Yeah, no.[/QUOTE] [sp]You're telling me the focal point of this games story was racism? That is what you are saying?[/sp] [editline]3rd April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Fhux;40144481]So I have a question. [sp]Within the first minutes of the game, in the lighthouse, there is a dead man with a sign saying "Don't disappoint us." Did I miss any information about who he was or didn't we get any? It's not very important, but I am sort of obsessed with details like that.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Not very important, some people say another booker, I personally say the lighthouse keeper.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Winters;40144484]Okay than if you're playing around with the rules why are you critizing them for when you yourself break them with your own ideas? Within the game it follows it's own rules just fine. [editline]3rd April 2013[/editline] [sp]You're telling me the focal point of this games story was racism? That is what you are saying?[/sp][/QUOTE] No. I am critisizing the game for presenting two equivalent actions with different consequences which translates to breaking its own rules.

[QUOTE=Fhux;40144481]So I have a question. [sp]Within the first minutes of the game, in the lighthouse, there is a dead man with a sign saying "Don't disappoint us." Did I miss any information about who he was or didn't we get any? It's not very important, but I am sort of obsessed with details like that.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]I think Comstock put him there to stop Booker, since he knew he'd come for him eventually. As far who killed him, you'll find out.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Killuah;40144501]No.[/QUOTE] Then why did you say it lost it's focus if you know racism wasn't it?

[QUOTE=JesterUK;40144473]Finished 1999 mode. Yay.[/QUOTE] I'm just starting it. I played on Easy with a controller first, so I could enjoy the story and not worry about dying. And boy, it sure was fun.

[QUOTE=Fhux;40144481]So I have a question. [sp]Within the first minutes of the game, in the lighthouse, there is a dead man with a sign saying "Don't disappoint us." Did I miss any information about who he was or didn't we get any? It's not very important, but I am sort of obsessed with details like that.[/sp][/QUOTE] He's [sp]The lighthouse keeper, or at least someone sent by Comstock to prevent people from using it. There is a note from him in that room.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Winters;40144518]Then why did you say it lost it's focus if you know racism wasn't it?[/QUOTE] Because it's not the focus of the story like you asked but of the world design and basic principles of Columbia.

[QUOTE=Killuah;40144536]Because it's not the focus of the story like you asked but of the world design and basic principles of Columbia.[/QUOTE] Alright, fair enough. [sp]After the 2nd tear the revolution is in full swing and subsequently every location after that is taken over by the Vox populi at least partially so it's not like you're going to see the system in place anymore. At least not as heavily.[/sp]

Thanks, I appreciate it.

The note says [sp] Be prepared. He's on his way. YOu must stop him. -C[/sp] [editline]3rd April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Winters;40144557]Alright, fair enough. [sp]After the 2nd tear the revolution is in full swing and subsequently every location after that is taken over by the Vox populi at least partially so it's not like you're going to see the system in place anymore. At least not as heavily.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Yeah but even that revolution is incited by Booker. Also this shows us one more point: The personal timeline of the Booker we play crosses multiple other timelines, but is also subject to MORE branching, as seen in the last one where Booker was brought to Columbia by the Lutece Twins too, ALSO made up some memories, but died after joining the vox. And that makes the final "hey everything is good now since we drowned Booker at the Baptism" idea even more redundant. Drowning Booker changed nothing. The decision of Booker to erase Comstock(remember when you are with Elizabeth and she asks you "is this really what you want?" ) from time creates a personal timeline where he has mercy on Comstock and thus creates endless dimensions where Comstock is still created.[/sp]

[QUOTE=a-cookiesfan;40143895][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulwg6M8I0F0&feature=youtu.be[/media] When he says 'all in-between' would that suggest that transsexualism is a regular thing in Columbia and isn't frowned upon as they do with other races? or is he just advertising[/QUOTE] Probably not, since Transsexuality does not always imply being "in-between" genders. (Unless the person identifies as such) [editline]3rd April 2013[/editline] [sp]Someone did have an interesting theory as to why there's female cops and soldiers though, in that Comstock wants Columbia to be controlled and taken over by Elizabeth, so logically he'd want to condition his citizens and soldiers to be used to female authority figures.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Killuah;40144602]The note says [sp] Be prepared. He's on his way. YOu must stop him. -C[/sp] [editline]3rd April 2013[/editline] [sp]Yeah but even that revolution is incited by Booker. Also this shows us one more point: The personal timeline of the Booker we play crosses multiple other timelines, but is also subject to MORE branching, as seen in the last one where Booker was brought to Columbia by the Lutece Twins too, ALSO made up some memories, but died after joining the vox. And that makes the final "hey everything is good now since we drowned Booker at the Baptism" idea even more redundant. Drowning Booker changed nothing. The decision of Booker to erase Comstock(remember when you are with Elizabeth and she asks you "is this really what you want?" ) from time creates a personal timeline where he has mercy on Comstock and thus creates endless dimensions where Comstock is still created.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]All timelines featuring Comstock branch out from that one decision. They are BRANCHES, like on a TREE. Remove the ROOT of the TREE, destroy every BRANCH. That was a theme throughout the ENTIRE game.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Killuah;40144602][sp]Yeah but even that revolution is incited by Booker. Also this shows us one more point: The personal timeline of the Booker we play crosses multiple other timelines, but is also subject to MORE branching, as seen in the last one where Booker was brought to Columbia by the Lutece Twins too, ALSO made up some memories, but died after joining the vox. And that makes the final "hey everything is good now since we drowned Booker at the Baptism" idea even more redundant. Drowning Booker changed nothing. The decision of Booker to erase Comstock(remember when you are with Elizabeth and she asks you "is this really what you want?" ) from time creates a personal timeline where he has mercy on Comstock and thus creates endless dimensions where Comstock is still created.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]That revolution is not incited by Booker he simply fought and died in it (side by side with plenty of black heros might I add.) In that timeline remember the revolution started all on it's own and Booker happened to join up Also I'm not sure what you're implying with that 2nd thing because that is once again breaking the constants and variables thing where the constant is that comstock is made only at the baptism[/sp]

[QUOTE=QueenSasha24;40144692]Probably not, since Transsexuality does not always imply being "in-between" genders. (Unless the person identifies as such)[/QUOTE] we're talking 1912, obviously there aren't transsexuals due to the fact the processes aren't even considered, let alone invented for a long time yet. The statement made by the vendor is just plain old sales fluff- a weird off-kilter joke to make people stop and question what you just said because it doesn't make sense, even considering the known rare condition of being hermaphroditic, I wouldn't expect the general public to think more than "oh what a strange thing to say, there are [i]only[/i] boys and girls, what a silly man" open gender identities is also pretty much out of the question for the time period, Anyone who dives at that comment to insist that there's an equality movement even remotely implied to exist within the timeline- [i]let alone on Columbia[/i], is grasping at straws just to make it a relevant discussion

[QUOTE=QueenSasha24;40144692]Probably not, since Transsexuality does not always imply being "in-between" genders. (Unless the person identifies as such) [editline]3rd April 2013[/editline] [sp]Someone did have an interesting theory as to why there's female cops and soldiers though, in that Comstock wants Columbia to be controlled and taken over by Elizabeth, so logically he'd want to condition his citizens and soldiers to be used to female authority figures.[/sp][/QUOTE] TvTropes again (won't link though): [sp]- At first it seems strange that Columbia has so modern values concerning gender equality, when it's so ultraconservative with race, class and religion. But it makes sense for Comstock to support the "modern woman"-movement even as he stomps on all other social development, since he wants for Elizabeth to inherit his place as the spiritual leader of the city, and has to get his followers used to the idea of female authority figures before he can be sure that they'll follow her once he's gone. - Consider, also, that gender equality (or something closer to it than the 1912 norm) might have been necessary for other reasons entirely - there are only so many people in Columbia to begin with. There simply might not have been enough men to do all the jobs that needed doing.[/sp]

[QUOTE=a-cookiesfan;40143895][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulwg6M8I0F0&feature=youtu.be[/media] When he says 'all in-between' would that suggest that transsexualism is a regular thing in Columbia and isn't frowned upon as they do with other races? or is he just advertising[/QUOTE] I think 'everything in between' is just a saying. I highly doubt a strict religious society that openly support racism and slavery is going to be ok about transexuals.

[QUOTE=wulfe8857;40144747][sp]All timelines featuring Comstock branch out from that one decision. They are BRANCHES, like on a TREE. Remove the ROOT of the TREE, destroy every BRANCH. That was a theme throughout the ENTIRE game.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Well that means that the number of timelines is not unlimited but pretty damn limited.[/sp] [editline]3rd April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Winters;40144758][sp]That revolution is not incited by Booker he simply fought and died in it (side by side with plenty of black heros might I add.) In that timeline remember the revolution started all on it's own and Booker happened to join up Also I'm not sure what you're implying with that 2nd thing because that is once again breaking the constants and variables thing where the constant is that comstock is made only at the baptism[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp] He clearly become a martyr and heroic leader of that revolution.[/sp]

I'm kinda dissapointed that not even 1999 mode forced me to use different vigors. I used Shock Jockey the whole game, since that's the only one I needed.

[QUOTE=Killuah;40144932][sp]Well that means that the number of timelines is not unlimited but pretty damn limited.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Correct. Elizabeth says that there are "millions of doorways," not "unlimited doorways." If we were to assume that every little decision made would create a new timeline, there would be unlimited. But there's another theme in BioShock Infinite: not all choices matter. Choosing heads or tails, choosing which necklace for Elizabeth, all those don't matter. They don't affect the outcome.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Killuah;40144932][sp]Well that means that the number of timelines is not unlimited but pretty damn limited.[/sp][/QUOTE] That is the point. [sp]Limiting the timelines, only one ending exist: Booker alive as Booker, with his daughter unharmed. This game is deconstruction of multiple endings and illusion of choices, just like Bioshock 1 was a deconstruction of endings affected by players' choices.[/sp] [QUOTE][sp] He clearly become a martyr and heroic leader of that revolution.[/sp][/QUOTE] Daisy was the leader of Vox Populi, [sp]she could easily 'create' a martyr for anyone.[/sp]

[sp] I don't really mind the racism and stuff not being the main focus, but I do kind of feel the larger multiverse plot kind of makes the whole thing seem superfluous, and just there for flavor.[/sp]

[QUOTE=JesterUK;40145015]I'm kinda dissapointed that not even 1999 mode forced me to use different vigors. I used Shock Jockey the whole game, since that's the only one I needed.[/QUOTE] Just like I used Electro Bolt and the Shotgun in Bioshock 1.

[sp]I find it quite funny how the game literally doesn't have an ending, or even a beginning.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Mingebox;40145042][sp] I don't really mind the racism and stuff not being the main focus, but I do kind of feel the larger multiverse plot kind of makes the whole thing seem superfluous, and just there for flavor.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]The multiverse plot explained almost everything about the game. I don't think I understand what you mean.[/sp]

[QUOTE=wulfe8857;40145071][sp]The multiverse plot explained almost everything about the game. I don't think I understand what you mean.[/sp][/QUOTE][sp] The multi verse plot feels like it makes everything about Columbia and it's society background noise.[/sp]

[QUOTE=wulfe8857;40145071][sp]The multiverse plot explained almost everything about the game. I don't think I understand what you mean.[/sp][/QUOTE] The whole shepard thing as well as the whole "patriots, religion, white pride" thing [sp] It's not vital for the story and the story is not vital for it. It's just there to make you dislike the prophet. And that kinda pulls its teeth. For all we know the "prophet" could've been a James Bond villain with a flying fortress and the story would've been exactly the same. [/sp] In BS 1 the story kinda tied in withing the whole liberty problem. The philosophical liberty and its implementation in Rapture had a mirror in the personal freedom of choice you have in the story. Story and world-design loved and hated each other. They were in relation. In Infinite the concepts of Columbia: race pride, religion, history glorification, tin god worshiping. They are pretty disconnected from the story.

It's a different game from Bioshock 1 that's plot is not even on the same scope. CAn you blame it for being written differently?

[QUOTE=guicool-BR-;40145035]That is the point. [sp]Limiting the timelines, only one ending exist: Booker alive as Booker, with his daughter unharmed. This game is deconstruction of multiple endings and illusion of choices, just like Bioshock 1 was a deconstruction of endings affected by players' choices.[/sp] Daisy was the leader of Vox Populi, [sp]she could easily 'create' a martyr for anyone.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Then what limits these timelines? What about possible timelines where even worse stuff happens? For all we know it's decisions that create the timelines, ultimately reflected in the decision of Booker to take the Baptism or not (the very beginning of everything) and the decision of Booker to end Comstocks existence, the very end of everything. Why does every Baptism lead to Comstock? Why isn't there a timeline where he gets Baptized, comes back home and has a happy life?[/sp]

[QUOTE=Killuah;40145237][sp]Then what limits these timelines? What about possible timelines where even worse stuff happens? For all we know it's decisions that create the timelines, ultimately reflected in the decision of Booker to take the Baptism or not (the very beginning of everything) and the decision of Booker to end Comstocks existence, the very end of everything. Why does every Baptism lead to Comstock? Why isn't there a timeline where he gets Baptized, comes back home and has a happy life?[/sp][/QUOTE] Because that's how constants work yo[sp]It's the constants that limit them. I think you must've missed that in the plot because you always fail to remeber it[/sp]