[QUOTE=Indubitably;40076134]Looks like its mounting a 120 in that picture, which I guess wouldn't be that surprising if its going to be a tier ten heavy[/QUOTE]L1A1. Same as Conqueror and F215b. The L7A1 was a 105mm (see the Cent 7/1). That definately looks like the 120mm L1, but difficult to tell the scale of the photo.
[QUOTE=Psygo;40073413][img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12876495/excusemewut.png[/img]
excuse me what now?[/QUOTE]
Why bother with the general ingame chat
Seriously why
Not only is every single participant a retarded shitlord, the power hungry moderators will throw you chat bans for anything you can imagine.
[QUOTE=Indubitably;40076134]Looks like its mounting a 120 in that picture, which I guess wouldn't be that surprising if its going to be a tier ten heavy[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Rollup;40076271]L1A1. Same as Conqueror and F215b. The L7A1 was a 105mm I think. That definately looks like the 120mm L1, but difficult to tell the scale of the photo.[/QUOTE]
It is a 105mm...
Or rather whatever size relative to the scale the model is made to. Look at the ground around the tank in the second picture. Those are strands of grass.
When the FV4201 (chieftain) was being developed, the design made use of several aspects that hadn't been tested, along with the best gun at the time, the 105mm. However, due to the technologies being very experimental, they were refined in the FV4202, which was a technology demonstrator. With the technologies refined and tested the first FV4201 prototypes were built. However, as the 120mm L11 wasn't quite ready, they mounted the first few tanks with the 120mm L1A1, and ironed out the few remaining bugs.
Surprisingly today there was a lot of good players, or a lot of good players on the enemy team >_>
My winrate went below 50%.
Also reached 81K in exp on the Vk3002DB, so no more using it.
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;40076465]It is a 105mm...
Or rather whatever size relative to the scale the model is made to. Look at the ground around the tank in the second picture. Those are strands of grass.
When the FV4201 (chieftain) was being developed, the design made use of several aspects that hadn't been tested, along with the best gun at the time, the 105mm. However, due to the technologies being very experimental, they were refined in the FV4202, which was a technology demonstrator. With the technologies refined and tested the first FV4201 prototypes were built. However, as the 120mm L11 wasn't quite ready, they mounted the first few tanks with the 120mm L1A1, and ironed out the few remaining bugs.[/QUOTE] I thought the main aim of the Chieftan project was to mount a 120mm gun, with L11 in development at the same time for that purpose. Just seems a bit odd that they would use an L7 105mm for the early scale model instead of the L1 120mm. The gun model looks more like the L1 too, with the bigger two piece bore extractor.
I will bow to your greater knowledge.
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;40076465]It is a 105mm...
Or rather whatever size relative to the scale the model is made to. Look at the ground around the tank in the second picture. Those are strands of grass.
When the FV4201 (chieftain) was being developed, the design made use of several aspects that hadn't been tested, along with the best gun at the time, the 105mm. However, due to the technologies being very experimental, they were refined in the FV4202, which was a technology demonstrator. With the technologies refined and tested the first FV4201 prototypes were built. However, as the 120mm L11 wasn't quite ready, they mounted the first few tanks with the 120mm L1A1, and ironed out the few remaining bugs.[/QUOTE]
Don't count on model scales to be correct. The SU-152 with its 122mms are completely different. One has twice the barrel width of the other.
[QUOTE=Rollup;40076644]I thought the main aim of the Chieftan project was to mount a 120mm gun, with L11 in development at the same time for that purpose. Just seems a bit odd that they would use an L7 105mm for the early scale model instead of the L1 120mm. The gun model looks more like the L1 too, with the bigger bore extractor.
I will bow to your greater knowledge.[/QUOTE]
Well the large reason the L7 was to be used instead of the L11 was due to the feasibility of the rounds. However, this was reverted they developed the bagged rounds for the L11.
[quote]More significant still, however, was that the British by this time had a new tank in production, the Chieftain, which was to replace both the Centurion and Conqueror, with firepower superior to both. Initial studies for a new "medium tank gun" to replace these two tanks started in the early 1950's and by 1954 some definite proposals had been formulated by the British General Staff. [b]It was planned that the new vehicle should not exceed 50 tons in weight, should have a gun of 120mm calibre, low sloped superstructure, particularly at the front, and a new, compact V-8 engine instead of the Meteor engine of the Centurion. It was originally thought that the maximum calibre of the gun would be no greater than 105mm, due to the weight and size of the 120mm round in a vehicle of relatively small size, buth this problem was overcome by developing a 120mm round with bagged, as opposed to cased charges, as used in large calibre naval guns.[/b] In the event, the 105mm gun was developed and fitted to later marks of the Centurion, and the 120mm gun became feasible for the new design. The new tank was originally designated "Medium Gun Tank No.2 FV 4201" and the contract for design work went to Leyland Motors, who had been main contractors for Centurion.[/quote]
Basically, this model was between the point of the original proposal and the development and testing of the 120mm.
[QUOTE=scout1;40076684]Don't count on model scales to be correct. The SU-152 with its 122mms are completely different. One has twice the barrel width of the other.[/QUOTE]That gun looks identical to the one on the Conqueror 1 at Bovington too. Its slightly wider towards the mantlet and the same bore extractor in the same position (about halfway down the barrel).
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bovington_154_Conqueror_1.jpg[/url].
The Centurion bore extractor seemed to be placed about a third of the way down the barrel from what I've seen. I expect only the model maker knows what he was thinking about. The Fv215b mockup seemed to use a drain pipe for a gun lol.
Also :- [url]http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Conqueror_FV214_tank.jpg&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Conqueror_FV214_tank.jpg&h=486&w=800&sz=213&tbnid=ukUd8m4xLMLkRM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=148&zoom=1&usg=__-JJXZ3c-HfVXSeUa4HRi_8JqxDw=&docid=Ph4AlNSO4iIJJM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=P-FUUfnZFuqG0AWAmICQBg&sqi=2&ved=0CDoQ9QEwAQ&dur=245[/url] Third photo gives similar angle to the model.
You can see what I mean about the bore extractor here [url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/caro6302/4415956617/[/url]
Thanks for the interesting stuff.
Guys remember when i asked for an ultra low res mod/config? [SUB]and none of you assholes actually helped me, twice[/SUB]
Well i found it
[img]http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/882977919555832354/961A7FB1105F4C2CC3F48D7BB1F062B0F6CEF9C4/[/img]
World of tanks, now on nintendo 64 :v:
Also i wonder what the fuck is wrong with my map
Its definitely a 120mm, That bore extractor doesn't look like any contemporary L7 bore extractor that I know of. Besides, its a model, so it could mount a mockup of a gun still in development, or the L1A1.
[QUOTE=Rollup;40076834]That gun looks identical to the one on the Conqueror 1 at Bovington too. Its slightly wider towards the mantlet and the same bore extractor in the same position (about halfway down the barrel).
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bovington_154_Conqueror_1.jpg[/url].
[B]The Centurion bore extractor seemed to be placed about a third of the way down the barrel[/B] from what I've seen. I expect only the model maker knows what he was thinking about. The Fv215b mockup seemed to use a drain pipe for a gun lol.[/QUOTE]
That gun is the L11 mounted on production chieftains. It wouldn't be totally unimaginable for a very early mockup to have a different armament .
Is it worth pointing out that this mockup was constructed before the design of the 105mm L7 was finalized?
The chieftain actually began development in the early 1950's. The L7 didn't undergo gun trials till mid 1956.
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;40076996]Is it worth pointing out that this mockup was constructed before the design of the 105mm L7 was finalized?[/QUOTE] I thought you were saying it was an L7. I also assumed that L1 120mm was designed before the L7, just because of numbers :)
[QUOTE=Rollup;40077048]I thought you were saying it was an L7. I also assumed that L1 120mm was designed before the L7, just because of numbers :)[/QUOTE]
They did not mount the 120mm L1 on the tank "due to the weight and size of the 120mm round in a vehicle of relatively small size"
What I was saying is that the gun doesn't look exactly like the 105mm L7 because the design of the gun had not been finalized.
[QUOTE=Indubitably;40076990]That gun is the L11 mounted on production chieftains. It wouldn't be totally unimaginable for a very early mockup to have a different armament .[/QUOTE] The gun on the Conqueror ? I don't think the L11 was fitted to a Conqueror. I'm pretty sure thats the L1A1 on the Conqueror 1 at Bovington.
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;40076996]Is it worth pointing out that this mockup was constructed before the design of the 105mm L7 was finalized?[/QUOTE]
Now that is interesting, but it still seems to me that the barrel is still much too wide for an 105mm gun. Also, im willing to bet that the people who made these mockups knew what they were doing, I doubt they just randomly picked that size barrel.
[editline]28th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rollup;40077082]The gun on the Conqueror ? I don't think the L11 was fitted to a Conqueror. I'm pretty sure thats the L1A1 on the Conqueror 1 at Bovington.[/QUOTE]
Whoops, I derped, thought you said chieftain instead of centurion
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;40077059]They did not mount the 120mm L1 on the tank "due to the weight and size of the 120mm round in a vehicle of relatively small size"[/QUOTE]It just really surprises me that, if they were making an early design model they would make a model for a soon to be replaced 105mm when the design spec said it had to be 120mm. Are you sure they hadn't solved the issue (seperate penetrator and charge) by the time of this model ? Can you show us where you got the picture from ? I would be interested to read up on it. I also like it's looks. Would be great to have in game, and would fit the timeline. WG have done madder things.
[QUOTE=Indubitably;40077084]Now that is interesting, but it still seems to me that the barrel is still much too wide for an 105mm gun. Also, im willing to bet that the people who made these mockups knew what they were doing, I doubt they just randomly picked that size barrel.[/QUOTE]
It looks different because the chieftain was intended to be smaller. The original design of the chieftain called for the tank not to exceed 50 tons. The final design exceed that by a fair amount.
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;40077143]It looks different because the chieftain was intended to be smaller. The original design of the chieftain called for the tank not to exceed 50 tons. The final design exceed that by a fair amount.[/QUOTE]
Im not so sure. The turret, the commanders hatch and drivers hatch seem to be the same size on this mockup as they do on the production tank, suggesting the size of this wasn't too far off from the Chieftain we know and love
[QUOTE=Rollup;40077129]It just really surprises me that, if they were making an early design model they would make a model for a soon to be replaced 105mm when the design spec said it had to be 120mm. Are you sure they hadn't solved the issue (seperate penetrator and charge) by the time of this model ? Can you show us where you got the picture from ? I would be interested to read up on it. I also like it's looks. Would be great to have in game, and would fit the timeline. WG have done madder things.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.scribd.com/doc/93955956/Norman-M-1971-Chieftain-and-Leopard-Development-AFV-Weapons-Profile-No-18[/url]
Also, the chieftain really isn't that large a tank
[img]http://i.imgur.com/07eXTbO.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/kYSQZGK.jpg[/img]
Ogopogo are you a tank history consultant or something?
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;40077306][url]http://www.scribd.com/doc/93955956/Norman-M-1971-Chieftain-and-Leopard-Development-AFV-Weapons-Profile-No-18[/url][/QUOTE]
Thanks for this! A really nice read so far.
[QUOTE=scout1;40077343]Ogopogo are you a tank history consultant or something?[/QUOTE]
I rather enjoy looking up facts about tanks.
[editline]28th March 2013[/editline]
Also, the chieftain should be able to climb anything should they put it ingame.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/W1aG8yj.jpg[/img]
Now that would be fun
ogopogo, got any reading material on the T95?
[QUOTE=Indubitably;40077525]Now that would be fun
ogopogo, got any reading material on the T95?[/QUOTE]
Assuming GMC? Or do you mean the medium.
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;40077710]Assuming GMC? Or do you mean the medium.[/QUOTE]
Not sure what he meant, but I would appreciate it if you had any material on the GMC T95
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;40077401]I rather enjoy looking up facts about tanks.[/QUOTE]
Thanks very much for the reference. Very interesting.
That early design model sure is an oddity, and with no date, we can only speculate about what that gun model was intended to be.
Here's hoping we get the Chieftan prototype at some point (please don't be a clan wars reward).
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;40077710]Assuming GMC? Or do you mean the medium.[/QUOTE]
The medium
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;40077742]Not sure what he meant, but I would appreciate it if you had any material on the GMC T95[/QUOTE]
I'll start you off on this, and get back to you with some more on it. First bit is rather brief.
[url]http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=331[/url]
Found this from Hunnicutt's Firepower (a book I would like to have). Only problem is it is only a snippet of a few pages.
[quote][img]http://i.imgur.com/aOKtP.jpg[/img][img]http://i.imgur.com/41MKu.jpg[/img][/quote]
Here is the actual mockup for the earliest idea for the T95 (well actually the T28, but then again they were the same tank) that someone sold a while back on ebay. If I remember correctly, it only went for something like $46 because people didn't realize it was an official model till too late. Otherwise it would probably have gone for a few thousand.
[quote]
[img]http://img13.imageshost.ru/img/2012/12/01/image_50b9a3c2990c8.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i46.tinypic.com/102p8h2.png[/img][/quote]
[QUOTE=Indubitably;40077790]The medium[/QUOTE]
Here is the stuff on the T95 medium tank.
[quote][img]http://i.imgur.com/Gl0jb.png[/img][img]http://i.imgur.com/tNMU7.png[/img][img]http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f25/Donmor3/Tank%20Info/T95%20Medium%20Tank/T95flowchart.jpg[/img][/quote]
List of variants if you want to see them.
[url]http://jedsite.info/tanks-tango/tango-numbers-us/t95_series/t95-series.html[/url]
And the T110E3. Just because.
[quote][img]http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/8813/wfqtg4e5y4b.png[/img][/quote]
[editline]28th March 2013[/editline]
Hey found something else, a document of the T95 from the Aberdeen proving ground
[quote]
[img]http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f25/Donmor3/AFV%20Register%20Index/T95DataSheet.jpg[/img][/quote]
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;40077908]Found this from Hunnicutt's Firepower (a book I would like to have). Only problem is it is only a snippet of a few pages.
[/QUOTE]
Yo I can get access to this book if needed. Is there anything you need from it, or more on the T95 that wasn't posted that you think would be useful?
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