I want to get The Relic, Little C.H.A.D, and Charm of the Vampire in one run. That'd be...interesting.
The combination of Yummy Heart and Item Martyr (Nun's Habit?) makes your borderline invincible.
A half-heart of damage recharges your item by half, so your item is charged by the time you lose one heart. Yummy Heart heals that damage.
It's excellent.
[QUOTE=Dalndox;36847275]The combination of Yummy Heart and Item Martyr (Nun's Habit?) makes your borderline invincible.
A half-heart of damage recharges your item by half, so your item is charged by the time you lose one heart. Yummy Heart heals that damage.
It's excellent.[/QUOTE]
Habit + 9volt + Revelations + Mitre + Child's Heart.
Every two soul hearts of damage (in the womb and beyond, otherwise only one) you heal a soul heart, or one damage and one room, or four rooms; plus the natural soul hearts you get from heart + mitre.
[URL="http://filesmelt.com/dl/aboutsevenrows.png"]I've had it before[/URL]. It continues for several rows.
[img]http://puu.sh/K2FC[/img]
I finally killed her, 9 hours playtime.
[IMG]http://puu.sh/K2Ny[/IMG]
[IMG]http://puu.sh/K2NL[/IMG]
slightly overpowered der
[img]http://puu.sh/K3cR[/img]
All of my hate.
I wonder how long I can keep this up.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/h0mmj.jpg[/IMG]
Tried launching The Binding of Isaac before I left for work.
Come back 12 hours later, and it's still "preparing to launch".
Why, Steam? Why? :C
[QUOTE=ironman17;36845132]I can see where you're coming from with the Limited Attack Direction things; perhaps the diagonals could be managed by moving and shooting up? Having limited directions of attack would also make it simpler to fight as Meat Boy; that's right he has melee attacks, as he's hardened up a little since the events of SMB; he don't like being knocked around by some mutant freaks, so now he can punch and whatnot. Speaking of Meat Boy's attack scheme, even though I thought up the system before I played Rayman Origins, the scheme I thought up is damn similar to how Rayman fights in Rayman Origins, except Meat Boy isn't Mr Fantastic or lacking in limbs to connect his body parts.
Also, concerning the dungeons, that system you mentioned was pretty much identical to my original thoughts; to be fair I drew inspiration from that flash game K.O.L.M, with the room-sizes not being equal; I initially thought about ladders or ropes, but then I decided Meat Boy would need to carry him if he couldn't reach places by himself; encourage cooperation for survival. Attempting singleplayer would probably need either switching between AI-controlled characters or having rope-ladders as an item. If rooms were uneven in size, secret rooms would probably be harder to find, so maybe faint cracks could act as a marker for observant players to bomb the wall/floor/ceiling/background?
Also, is there any way to post attachments in a PM? 'cause most of my writing in in text files. Might sound strange, but I find it easier to jot stuff down in those, even though I have Microsoft Word.[/QUOTE]
Yeah moving while shooting up should be good enough for diagonals. And yeah I've seen that part where you're talking about Meat Boy being able to melee attack. I've been thinking, wouldn't that be slightly overpowered, especially since he can't really die? You could just keep sending him as cannon fodder to progressively weaken enemies without ever putting Isaac in danger. That would work even if he "dies" in one hit.
As for singleplayer, I guess you can control one character at a time while the other is AI controlled, but then it shouldn't be able to take damage, because then you'd blame the AI for dying. And when Meat Boy is carrying Isaac I guess they'd act as a single player. A bit like Mario riding Yoshi, y'know. :v: That might not work out as well with two players, well I guess that would require quite a bit of coordination, which might make it actually fun.
If rooms are uneven in size, they'd still be aligned to the grid, right? As in, the smallest room possible would be 1 square long and 1 square tall, but rooms can be several squares longer or taller. Then I still think secret rooms should be easy to find. Cracks in the wall would make the job too easy once you know how to recognize them.
Oh yeah, about the game itself, how long would it take to complete a playthrough? Would it have permadeath like Binding of Isaac? Because nine chapters sounds like quite a bit, so either those chapters should be really short and there would be permadeath, or they are longer and you have the possibility to save, since it would take at least two hours to finish a playthrough.
Also nah, no attachments in PMs as far as I know. You could always copy-paste your text to Pastebin or something like that. Or just zip the files up and upload them to any file hosting service.
Hang on, so how much is there to this game? I picked it up on sale, and as far as I know, you complete the game by killing mom. But you guys are talking about all these builds and levels and killing Satan and stuff.
[QUOTE=X-Neon;36850413]Hang on, so how much is there to this game? I picked it up on sale, and as far as I know, you complete the game by killing mom. But you guys are talking about all these builds and levels and killing Satan and stuff.[/QUOTE]
You kill Mom the first time, and it unlocks the first ending of many.
There is HOURS and HOURS to this game.
[QUOTE=X-Neon;36850413]Hang on, so how much is there to this game? I picked it up on sale, and as far as I know, you complete the game by killing mom. But you guys are talking about all these builds and levels and killing Satan and stuff.[/QUOTE]
The game has [sp]13 endings, excluding the epilogue you get for fighting mom[/sp].
So it turns out habit + gamekid rapes [sp]Isaac's[/sp] shit in the eye-socket. Sacrificial knife get!
Remember before WotL came out ?
Remember when Satan was hard to kill ?
[QUOTE=Maruhai;36852904]Remember when Satan was hard to kill ?[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure I do :v:
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;36848182]Tried launching The Binding of Isaac before I left for work.
Come back 12 hours later, and it's still "preparing to launch".
Why, Steam? Why? :C[/QUOTE]
If you want to play, you can just launch the game using the "Issac.exe" in steam\steamapps\common\the binding of isaac, you just won't get steam achievements but it works perfectly fine.
Holy Fuck spiders are pissing me off.
Greed also. No warning in his bullet attack
[QUOTE=ellibob;36853556]Holy Fuck spiders are pissing me off.[/QUOTE]
Which kind?
[QUOTE=Ray-The-Sun;36853830]Which kind?[/QUOTE]
All of them. It's probably me but the leaping spiders change from little hops to jumping the entire room at me and the little ones do the same.
I also found pink widow easier to fight than regular widow.
[QUOTE=_Kilburn;36850206]Yeah moving while shooting up should be good enough for diagonals. And yeah I've seen that part where you're talking about Meat Boy being able to melee attack. I've been thinking, wouldn't that be slightly overpowered, especially since he can't really die? You could just keep sending him as cannon fodder to progressively weaken enemies without ever putting Isaac in danger. That would work even if he "dies" in one hit.
As for singleplayer, I guess you can control one character at a time while the other is AI controlled, but then it shouldn't be able to take damage, because then you'd blame the AI for dying. And when Meat Boy is carrying Isaac I guess they'd act as a single player. A bit like Mario riding Yoshi, y'know. :v: That might not work out as well with two players, well I guess that would require quite a bit of coordination, which might make it actually fun.
If rooms are uneven in size, they'd still be aligned to the grid, right? As in, the smallest room possible would be 1 square long and 1 square tall, but rooms can be several squares longer or taller. Then I still think secret rooms should be easy to find. Cracks in the wall would make the job too easy once you know how to recognize them.
Oh yeah, about the game itself, how long would it take to complete a playthrough? Would it have permadeath like Binding of Isaac? Because nine chapters sounds like quite a bit, so either those chapters should be really short and there would be permadeath, or they are longer and you have the possibility to save, since it would take at least two hours to finish a playthrough.
Also nah, no attachments in PMs as far as I know. You could always copy-paste your text to Pastebin or something like that. Or just zip the files up and upload them to any file hosting service.[/QUOTE]
Thing about Meat Boy is that by default he's not exactly as strong as Isaac, and he'd respawn outside of the current room like in traditional Isaac when lives are involved, so Isaac can't always depend on Meat Boy; plus Meat Boy's low health means he has to be careful in regards to melee combat, since he has Stamina in place of Isaac's Energy, so too much melee fighting might wear him out a little and leave him open to take a hit. In regards to singleplayer, AI Isaac would probably have to have infinite lives, though he'd still have limited lives when player-controlled, both in singleplayer or co-op; AI characters can still take damage and die, nonetheless. Concerning the Isaac/Meat Boy Carry strategy (sounds like a MOBA tactic, don't it?), in singleplayer it would be like Mario on Yoshi, but in multiplayer each character would control their own things; Isaac would be able to shoot Tears, use Subweapons and Special Items, whilst Meat Boy does all the moving; kind of like two players controlling a tank in a shooter, except that the tank is a little boy and a man made of meat, plus the tank is surprisingly athletic. Plus, if Meat Boy's carrying Isaac, Isaac won't lose a life if they both die by falling into a pit of spikey crayons (misjudging a jump in phase 2 of the Magdalene bossfight can result in this). However, the strategy doesn't usually work as well as it does in bossfights; even if Meat Boy holds Isaac over his head away from the Pirahnas, he'll end up dropping Isaac when he dies, leaving the kid with a brief moment of infinite lives so that he doesn't lose a life if a cheap death occurs, like the spikes.
The main reason why Meat Boy still has unlimited lives is that his "immortality" means that he needs to keep Isaac somewhat safe since Isaac doesn't have as many lives as Meat Boy, plus Isaac is way more of a powerhouse than Meat Boy, and Meat Boy needs Isaac to help him cut a swathe through Hell to defeat the Chef and save Bandage Girl; something that Meat Boy can't do alone, hence the point of the game. Also, in regards to the permadeath aspect, it has three different levels of Life-based difficulty; Easycore, Mediumcore, and Hardcore, revolving around Isaac's mortality and how much of a penalty occurs when he's out of Lives. In Easycore, zero lives means they have to start the Dungeon all over again; a kind of difficulty suited for Meat Boy players. Mediumcore means the players have to restart the entire Chapter if Isaac loses all lives; a rather Isaacy level of difficulty that requires more conservation. Hardcore however is NOT for everyone, losing all lives as Isaac on THAT difficulty would force a restart from The Basement; only those who are really good at this kind of game, like a guy who's pro at true permadeathy games, should consider booting up a Hardcore session.
In regards to length, i'd say a single Chapter could last about as long as a standard Isaac run, though could potentially last much longer if the players are thorough; a Dungeon would likely last around 5-10 minutes, and there'd be several Dungeons to enter. You wouldn't need to clear EVERY Dungeon to unlock the Guardian stage (Final Boss of the Chapter), but you'd need to clear some of them at least to get the items you want and need to defeat the Guardian. I'd say an early-game Chapter could last around 45 minutes, if the characters complete 5 Dungeons and beat the Guardian, though average Chapter time could increase in later Chapters. Also, difficulty would increase in regards to Isaac's health; the first two Chapters would have most enemies dealing 1HP of damage to Isaac, but after defeating Cain and getting the Mark, enemies would deal 2HP of damage on average as a side-effect of the curse. Beating ??? (representative of Isaac after his suicide in the Chest) at the end of Chapter 6 causes Isaac to accept his fate, which jacks up the damage he takes to a whole Heart on average like in the Womb, making the last three chapters an exercise in not taking stupid damage, similar to the post-Depths/Necropolis stages of the original Isaac. This system makes the early-game less punishing, an opportunity to learn the ropes and get into the swing of things, whilst the midgame (Ch3 to Ch6) jacks up the difficulty to normal Isaac standards, and the endgame segment is sort of a "final exam", prompting the players to use all they've learned in order to survive, progress, and not fuck around. Defeating Guardians would probably increase the amount of Collectibles Isaac could carry; either that or have the carry-amount be in the form of upgrade items like Mom's Purse, sold by Guppy. Being that Meat Boy doesn't have Heart Containers, he still just loses singular hit-points, but the difficulty of the later Chapters means he'll be no less likelier to die than Isaac, and sometimes sacrificing himself is considered a viable tactic to make sure Isaac survives.
It'd technically be possible to finish a total run in a day, if the two players manage to power through the Chapters without being completionists, but it'd be wiser and probably more fun to spend time being a completionist in the Dungeons, getting all you can grab to become powerful, so sessions are saved after each Completion, be it finishing a Dungeon or defeating the Chapter Guardian, and can be revisited when there is time; Mediumcore saves revert to the beginning of a Chapter if Isaac loses all his lives, and complete Life-loss in Hardcore saves result in save deletion, forcing the start of a new session from the Basement. Co-op sessions can also be saved, since a run sometimes takes more than a day, or a player is needed elsewhere, so the session is still there for when both players have time; one player could "wait" in the session lobby, which would indicate to the other player that their pal wants to continue the session with you. In regards to hosting the co-op sessions, it'd probably work best for the Isaac player to host a listen server on their machine, since they wouldn't be affected by potential ping issues that could result in stupid damage and potentially losing a life. It'd be tricky to devise the control scheme to work with 2 players at the same keyboard, so local co-op probably wouldn't work as well unless there was multiple-keyboard support.
I'll pop the current writings into Pastebin and PM them a bit later.
[QUOTE=ironman17;36855441]Thing about Meat Boy is that by default he's not exactly as strong as Isaac, and he'd respawn outside of the current room like in traditional Isaac when lives are involved, so Isaac can't always depend on Meat Boy[/QUOTE]
Yeah I like this solution, it makes sense. Lose Meat Boy in a room, have to clear the room all alone before being able to go back and reunite with him.
[QUOTE=ironman17;36855441]Meat Boy's low health means he has to be careful in regards to melee combat, since he has Stamina in place of Isaac's Energy, so too much melee fighting might wear him out a little and leave him open to take a hit.[/QUOTE]
If he doesn't die upon taking a single hit like in Super Meat Boy, should he have regenerating health? Since he respawns with full health and no consequences after dying I think that would make sense, plus it kinda fit the whole idea of him being a melee fighter, he's bound to take damage anyway and health doesn't really has any value for him, so might as well regenerate it if he doesn't get hit for a while.
[QUOTE=ironman17;36855441]In regards to singleplayer, AI Isaac would probably have to have infinite lives, though he'd still have limited lives when player-controlled, both in singleplayer or co-op; AI characters can still take damage and die, nonetheless.[/QUOTE]
But that wouldn't work. If you're down to 1 HP as Isaac, you could just switch to Meat Boy and get Isaac to die so he respawns with full health. There's that one Castlevania game, Portrait of Ruin, I think, where you have two characters as well, and you control one of them while the other is AI controlled, and you can switch between them at any moment. When the AI character takes damage, they lose mana instead of health, and when all their mana is depleted, they become frozen and only unfreeze when all their mana is regenerated. I think that's a pretty decent compromise. I guess you could do that with Isaac's "energy" and Meat Boy's "stamina", if they regenerate, that is.
[QUOTE=ironman17;36855441]Concerning the Isaac/Meat Boy Carry strategy (sounds like a MOBA tactic, don't it?), in singleplayer it would be like Mario on Yoshi, but in multiplayer each character would control their own things; Isaac would be able to shoot Tears, use Subweapons and Special Items, whilst Meat Boy does all the moving; kind of like two players controlling a tank in a shooter, except that the tank is a little boy and a man made of meat, plus the tank is surprisingly athletic. Plus, if Meat Boy's carrying Isaac, Isaac won't lose a life if they both die by falling into a pit of spikey crayons (misjudging a jump in phase 2 of the Magdalene bossfight can result in this). However, the strategy doesn't usually work as well as it does in bossfights; even if Meat Boy holds Isaac over his head away from the Pirahnas, he'll end up dropping Isaac when he dies, leaving the kid with a brief moment of infinite lives so that he doesn't lose a life if a cheap death occurs, like the spikes.[/QUOTE]
Sounds good enough. Although I think Isaac should just lose a certain amount of health and then respawn at the closest point if he falls into a death pit. Like in Legend of Zelda, you know.
[QUOTE=ironman17;36855441]Also, in regards to the permadeath aspect, it has three different levels of Life-based difficulty; Easycore, Mediumcore, and Hardcore, revolving around Isaac's mortality and how much of a penalty occurs when he's out of Lives. In Easycore, zero lives means they have to start the Dungeon all over again; a kind of difficulty suited for Meat Boy players. Mediumcore means the players have to restart the entire Chapter if Isaac loses all lives; a rather Isaacy level of difficulty that requires more conservation. Hardcore however is NOT for everyone, losing all lives as Isaac on THAT difficulty would force a restart from The Basement; only those who are really good at this kind of game, like a guy who's pro at true permadeathy games, should consider booting up a Hardcore session.[/QUOTE]
Makes sense. I'm not sure Hardcore is necessary though, imagine the rage if someone dies on the final chapter after spending an entire day trying to complete it. :v: Although that's part of the challenge, I guess.
[QUOTE=ironman17;36855441]In regards to length, i'd say a single Chapter could last about as long as a standard Isaac run, though could potentially last much longer if the players are thorough; a Dungeon would likely last around 5-10 minutes, and there'd be several Dungeons to enter. You wouldn't need to clear EVERY Dungeon to unlock the Guardian stage (Final Boss of the Chapter), but you'd need to clear some of them at least to get the items you want and need to defeat the Guardian. I'd say an early-game Chapter could last around 45 minutes, if the characters complete 5 Dungeons and beat the Guardian, though average Chapter time could increase in later Chapters. Also, difficulty would increase in regards to Isaac's health; the first two Chapters would have most enemies dealing 1HP of damage to Isaac, but after defeating Cain and getting the Mark, enemies would deal 2HP of damage on average as a side-effect of the curse. Beating ??? (representative of Isaac after his suicide in the Chest) at the end of Chapter 6 causes Isaac to accept his fate, which jacks up the damage he takes to a whole Heart on average like in the Womb, making the last three chapters an exercise in not taking stupid damage, similar to the post-Depths/Necropolis stages of the original Isaac. This system makes the early-game less punishing, an opportunity to learn the ropes and get into the swing of things, whilst the midgame (Ch3 to Ch6) jacks up the difficulty to normal Isaac standards, and the endgame segment is sort of a "final exam", prompting the players to use all they've learned in order to survive, progress, and not fuck around. Defeating Guardians would probably increase the amount of Collectibles Isaac could carry; either that or have the carry-amount be in the form of upgrade items like Mom's Purse, sold by Guppy. Being that Meat Boy doesn't have Heart Containers, he still just loses singular hit-points, but the difficulty of the later Chapters means he'll be no less likelier to die than Isaac, and sometimes sacrificing himself is considered a viable tactic to make sure Isaac survives.[/QUOTE]
Whoah, 45 minutes per chapter? Although I guess that would be comparable to defeating Mom's Heart 9 times, except you keep your stuff after every playthrough, so it's not that bad in the end. As for limiting collectible items, I'm not sure that's necessary, I guess it depends on how high the limit is. Since the game is so long, I guess stat upgrades should be a lot harder to find and more common items would be essentially trinkets with minor effects.
In the meantime, I wish we could talk about this somewhere else. I feel like the thread is totally derailed now. :v:
Yeah, we probably should.
I don't care this is a really cool idea
Died at [sp]Issac[/sp] with Cain.
So close too. I'm pissed.
[QUOTE=AkujiTheSniper;36857713]Died at [sp]Issac[/sp] with Cain.
So close too. I'm pissed.[/QUOTE]
Same thing happened to me 3 times. Once I got him, he flew away and his auto-navigating shots that he fired before getting away killed me afterwards.
Am I the only one who hates Peeps with a burning passion? Whenever I get to the Caves I or II it's always that fucker who kills me, regardless of how many kickass items I have.
Also, is Guppy worth it? I happen to die a lot, so I think the 9 lives would help.
God, that makes the game look fucking scary.
[QUOTE=GeneralSergant;36860973]Am I the only one who hates Peeps with a burning passion? Whenever I get to the Caves I or II it's always that fucker who kills me, regardless of how many kickass items I have.
Also, is Guppy worth it? I happen to die a lot, so I think the 9 lives would help.[/QUOTE]
I always find Peep to be super easy. The Bloat (basically Peep 2) on the other hand is an asshole.
Guppy I find is not worth it. Sure you get 9 lives, but your HP is set to one. Unless you already have 2 or 1 heart containers it's a terrible deal.
Chub has the prettiest teeth in the game
[editline]20th July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Wolfos;36861424]I always find Peep to be super easy. The Bloat (basically Peep 2) on the other hand is an asshole.
Guppy I find is not worth it. Sure you get 9 lives, but your HP is set to one. Unless you already have 2 or 1 heart containers it's a terrible deal.[/QUOTE]
I'd even say that The Bloat is the hardest boss in the game.
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