[QUOTE=Sardonus;40175143]Reddit has literally the same problem FP has, which makes the hatred all the more ironic.
If you go against the opinion of the month, you get downvoted into oblivion, and your post obviously isn't worth reading and you're a tosser.
I want to be able to have discussions about Infinite where we can acknowledge design flaws, but I can't, since Infinite is currently more popular than Christianity, and saying you didn't like every part of it is grounds for execution.
I will wait a few months until the Hype train slows down and we can start talking about it critically. I think we're all a little high from having such a great experience after being bogged down with so much shit recently we're willing to hold it to such high standards.
NOW
I STILL THINK IT WAS REALLY FUCKIN' GOOD
I just don't think it'll be on my top 10 list.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, you just have to roll with it till it calms down. I think the mark of a truly good game is how it holds up over time, not on release. If you can still go back to it months or years later and enjoy it, then I'd say it's a good game.
Also, the lack of any Big Daddy enemy bothered me. I love the conflict a Big Daddy arises.
Here's this creature, in a world of insanity, that doesn't give a shit about you. It thinks you're irritating, but you're not it's worry. It has to defend the girl, and as long as you don't come to close you're fine to hop along.
But to get the ADAM from them, you need to provoke them and start a fight. This, and Sander cohen, are one of the few times Jack actually makes a choice (A huge central theme yo). Is it worth it to attack it for the prize? And it's heartbreaking when you see it slump over, and the little girl is bawling her eyes out. I mean, this was her protector. And you just gunned him down.
And she's looking at you, terrified of what the man who killed her guardian is going to do.
And there is nothing more sweet than having the scary blood covered sweater wearing son of a bitch rescue her and send her to Tenenbaum.
[QUOTE=Sardonus;40175143]
I want to be able to have discussions about Infinite where we can acknowledge design flaws, but I can't, since Infinite is currently more popular than Christianity, and saying you didn't like every part of it is grounds for execution.
[/QUOTE]
That's being pretty fucking dramatic.
[QUOTE=Ghost101;40175167]Nope, you're entitled to your opinion. I think we're just getting into ME3 territory with the ending discussion, it's not *that* deep; everyone is just repeating the same stuff over and over now. I would prefer to see people actually talk about the gameplay and other aspects of the game. That's part of what makes me think it's not this 10/10 a lot of people are saying, all I ever see is talk about the ending or Elizabeth or Booker, nobody cares about the rest of the game.[/QUOTE]
In fairness, the quality and complexity with which the ending and the two main characters were constructed is a rarity in this industry, so it's not surprising that they get the most attention. In my opinion, those elements were so strong that it kind of makes up for the faults that the game has. Doesn't mean the game is flawless though, certainly.
[QUOTE=Sardonus;40175182]Also, the lack of any Big Daddy enemy bothered me. I love the conflict a Big Daddy arises.
Here's this creature, in a world of insanity, that doesn't give a shit about you. It thinks you're irritating, but you're not it's worry. It has to defend the girl, and as long as you don't come to close you're fine to hop along.
But to get the ADAM from them, you need to provoke them and start a fight. This, and Sander cohen, are one of the few times Jack actually makes a choice (A huge central theme yo). Is it worth it to attack it for the prize? And it's heartbreaking when you see it slump over, and the little girl is bawling her eyes out. I mean, this was her protector. And you just gunned him down.
And she's looking at you, terrified of what the man who killed her guardian is going to do.
And there is nothing more sweet than having the scary blood covered sweater wearing son of a bitch rescue her and send her to Tenenbaum.[/QUOTE]
i loooooooooved the big daddies. unlike the deranged, out-to-get-you splicers, they were indifferent towards everything. they had their goal, and they followed it. after they kick your shit in, they turn the fuck around and stick close to their little sister.
i played BS1 when i was a lot younger, so it felt a lot more intense when i spent half an hour scrounging up all of the supplies in the area before i was prepared to fuck up his shit and eat the brains out of his little sister. felt so amazing.
killing patriots, handymen, the what, 2 boys of silence that would just go away for no fucking reason, and the 2 sirens? nnuuyhhh....
[QUOTE=Whatsinaname;40175179]I'm not disagreeing with you because of hype. I've played the game twice, and it has given me plenty of time to analyze it critically. I just really disagree with all the stuff you're saying about Bioshock 1. If anything, you seem to be the one who is incapable of acknowledging BS1's flaws.[/QUOTE]
Bioshock one has some flaws.
For one, Vita-Chambers are terrible. They're a console casualized feature, and they shouldn't be in it. Being able to turn them off as an option is great, and I can't play the game with them on. Infinite actually uses this well, by docking you a significant amount of cash. So Infinite has an edge there.
I will agree with most people, the pacing DEFINITELY slows down after Hephaestus. A little like sex. Little slow paced after you hit the peak, the villain is dead, and you're left cold, confused, and you have a headache.
I will admit the part where your health drains incrementally is really goddamn hard.
And the part where you need to put on the Big Daddy suit? That's damn padding, and useless. I thought that was pretty horrendously stupid given that Jack sheds it immediatedly afterwards, and the girl Tenenbaum gives you was saved anyway so you didn't even NEED a little sister.
Bioshock has flaws, and it's probably a personal bias but despite those flaws I still hold it as one of my favorite games ever made. Every game has flaws. All my favorites do.
Metal Gear 3? That fucking dialogue man.
Silent Hill 2? terrible controls and camera angles, James' VA is a wusso
Half Life 2? Anytime you're in a vehicle.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;40175205]In fairness, the quality and complexity with which the ending and the two main characters were constructed is a rarity in this industry, so it's not surprising that they get the most attention. In my opinion, those elements were so strong that it kind of makes up for the faults that the game has. Doesn't mean the game is flawless though, certainly.[/QUOTE]
I'm just happy we're all having a real discussion about the different games now, it's more interesting then 10 threads of black spoilered text. :v:
i thought the reviving in bsi was terrible. i was playing on hard, and all i lost was a small bit of cash (which i didn't really use save for filling up on ammo before a huge fight and upgrading once every hours), but got a full mag of ammo and half my health and all of my shield back
you could just run into fights over and over and OVER. it was dumb.
[QUOTE=Ghost101;40175167]Nope, you're entitled to your opinion. I think we're just getting into ME3 territory with the ending discussion, it's not *that* deep; everyone is just repeating the same stuff over and over now. I would prefer to see people actually talk about the gameplay and other aspects of the game. That's part of what makes me think it's not this 10/10 a lot of people are saying, all I ever see is talk about the ending or Elizabeth or Booker, nobody cares about the rest of the game.[/QUOTE]
The ending is about quantum mechanics, and quantum mechanics is frankly a pretty fucking cool thang. I'm not surprised at all that it is the main topic of discussion. Gameplay-wise the Bioshock games are, after all, just standard shooters with magic. And yeah, like JeanLuc761 said, those particular aspects' quality is incredible in the video game world.
i wouldn't call BSI's ending amazing, it'd just say it was very surprising because not many games have really had a "lol 2bad you won't know shit" ending.
Again, we'll have to wait and see, but I think another reason Bioshock can stand tall is it really did influence a lot of gaming right now. Little things. Bioshock definitely popularized storytelling through audio logs, (It didn't invent it, but it helped mainstream it) which we now see in Dead Space and any game really. It helped show there's still a market for classic stlye FPS', none of that 2 weapon atrocity.
It showed that games can still have a strong focus on storytelling and world building and not be a movie.
we'll have to see what Infinite creates in it's wake, so I can't judge it on that yet. Should be interesting.
so someone found the [sp]secret pacifist ending[/sp]
[media][URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-F1tPiJv8A"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-F1tPiJv8A[/media]
[/URL][sp]and they all lived happily together in paris, the end.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Sardonus;40175269]Again, we'll have to wait and see, but I think another reason Bioshock can stand tall is it really did influence a lot of gaming right now. Little things. Bioshock definitely popularized storytelling through audio logs, (It didn't invent it, but it helped mainstream it) which we now see in Dead Space and any game really. It helped show there's still a market for classic stlye FPS', none of that 2 weapon atrocity.
It showed that games can still have a strong focus on storytelling and world building and not be a movie.
we'll have to see what Infinite creates in it's wake, so I can't judge it on that yet. Should be interesting.[/QUOTE]
We get it you like bioshock.
[QUOTE=Sardonus;40175228]Bioshock one has some flaws.
For one, Vita-Chambers are terrible. They're a console casualized feature, and they shouldn't be in it. Being able to turn them off as an option is great, and I can't play the game with them on. Infinite actually uses this well, by docking you a significant amount of cash. So Infinite has an edge there.
I will agree with most people, the pacing DEFINITELY slows down after Hephaestus. A little like sex. Little slow paced after you hit the peak, the villain is dead, and you're left cold, confused, and you have a headache.
I will admit the part where your health drains incrementally is really goddamn hard.
And the part where you need to put on the Big Daddy suit? That's damn padding, and useless. I thought that was pretty horrendously stupid given that Jack sheds it immediatedly afterwards, and the girl Tenenbaum gives you was saved anyway so you didn't even NEED a little sister.
Bioshock has flaws, and it's probably a personal bias but despite those flaws I still hold it as one of my favorite games ever made. Every game has flaws. All my favorites do.
Metal Gear 3? That fucking dialogue man.
Silent Hill 2? terrible controls and camera angles, James' VA is a wusso
Half Life 2? Anytime you're in a vehicle.[/QUOTE]
I never understood the whole big daddy section
you fuck up your throat and everything just to get the help of a saved little sister?
the exact same saved little sisters that you'd already met in person and had helped you?
whaaaat.
That's just the canon ending from Silent Hill 2.
[editline]5th April 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Winters;40175279]We get it you like bioshock.[/QUOTE]
oh thank god I was worried that wasn't coming across
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;40175262]i wouldn't call BSI's ending amazing, it'd just say it was very surprising because not many games have really had a "lol 2bad you won't know shit" ending.[/QUOTE]
A... what ending?
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;40175262]i wouldn't call BSI's ending amazing, it'd just say it was very surprising because not many games have really had a "lol 2bad you won't know shit" ending.[/QUOTE]
I suppose it depends on how you look at it. Taken at face value, the ending is 'merely' great. It's when you go back for a second playthrough and realize just how interwoven everything is and how perfectly all the pieces fall together in the last ~30 minutes or so that you realize just how brilliant it all is. I'm trying to avoid being a fanboy about that, but I honestly think it's one of the most intelligent and well-engineered endings in ANY media that I've seen.
[QUOTE=Mellowbloom;40175283]I never understood the whole big daddy section
you fuck up your throat and everything just to get the help of a saved little sister?
the exact same saved little sisters that you'd already met in person and had helped you?
whaaaat.[/QUOTE]
Big Daddy is a guardian for Little Sister. People want Little Sister for Adam.
If I remember there was a person telling you the whole story about it.
You can kill guardian and harvest little sister or save her (which really depends later on ending).
[QUOTE=Muntu;40175304]A... what ending?[/QUOTE]
An opening mind ending.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;40175311]I suppose it depends on how you look at it. Taken at face value, the ending is 'merely' great. It's when you go back for a second playthrough and realize just how interwoven everything is and how perfectly all the pieces fall together in the last ~30 minutes or so that you realize just how brilliant it all is. I'm trying to avoid being a fanboy about that, but I honestly think it's one of the most intelligent and well-engineered endings in ANY media that I've seen.[/QUOTE]
oh yeah. on first playthrough the ending is mindfucky.
You play the game again and realize the most insane amount of foreshadowing.
Without kidding around I don't think I've ever played, read, or seen anything with as much foreshadowing and hints towards the reveal as Infinite, but it all slips by unnoticably on a first playthrough.
Levine pulled through, man.
[QUOTE=coverop;40175315]Big Daddy is a guardian for Little Sister. People want Little Sister for Adam.
If I remember there was a person telling you the whole story about it.
You can kill guardian and harvest little sister or save her (which really depends later on ending).
An opening mind ending.[/QUOTE]
I'm well aware of the bond between big daddy and little sister, but for those little sisters it's entirely irrelevant.
[QUOTE=Sardonus;40175332]oh yeah. on first playthrough the ending is mindfucky.
You play the game again and realize the most insane amount of foreshadowing.
Without kidding around I don't think I've ever played, read, or seen anything with as much foreshadowing and hints towards the reveal as Infinite, but it all slips by unnoticably on a first playthrough.
Levine pulled through, man.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure the Bioshock games are all about getting you immersed into this interesting world with all these characters, enemies, and all this story.
As far as I see it, the gameplay is supposed to be made just "passable", it's all about the immersion.
[QUOTE=Sardonus;40175228]Bioshock one has some flaws.
For one, Vita-Chambers are terrible. They're a console casualized feature, and they shouldn't be in it. Being able to turn them off as an option is great, and I can't play the game with them on. Infinite actually uses this well, by docking you a significant amount of cash. So Infinite has an edge there.
I will agree with most people, the pacing DEFINITELY slows down after Hephaestus. A little like sex. Little slow paced after you hit the peak, the villain is dead, and you're left cold, confused, and you have a headache.
I will admit the part where your health drains incrementally is really goddamn hard.
And the part where you need to put on the Big Daddy suit? That's damn padding, and useless. I thought that was pretty horrendously stupid given that Jack sheds it immediatedly afterwards, and the girl Tenenbaum gives you was saved anyway so you didn't even NEED a little sister.
Bioshock has flaws, and it's probably a personal bias but despite those flaws I still hold it as one of my favorite games ever made. Every game has flaws. All my favorites do.
Metal Gear 3? That fucking dialogue man.
Silent Hill 2? terrible controls and camera angles, James' VA is a wusso
Half Life 2? Anytime you're in a vehicle.[/QUOTE]
Agreed on all points.
well there's still plenty loopholes
or maybe not loopholes, just story faults
At the moment, I appreciate Bioshock Infinite more because it's a better PC port than the last two. BS1 and 2 still have shit audio for me. :v:
[QUOTE=Whatsinaname;40175364]Agreed on all points.[/QUOTE]
see I'm not totally a rabid fanboy I have some occasional points
most of the time I'm a rabid fanboy though.
like try and tell me silent hill 2 is bad and Iwill gut you
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;40175377]well there's still plenty loopholes
or maybe not loopholes, just story faults[/QUOTE]
Such as?
[QUOTE=Whatsinaname;40175392]At the moment, I appreciate Bioshock Infinite more because it's a better PC port than the last two. BS1 and 2 still have shit audio for me. :v:[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's definitely a downside of the first two games, they're not nearly as polished. Bioshock 1 was on some weird Unreal 2.5 engine, right? I just beat it again today and mostly enjoyed it. I actually didn't feel like things got too tedious till the very last level. It helped that I was playing with one of the few existing mods for it:
Bioshock Reborn [url]http://www.moddb.com/mods/bioshock-reborn[/url]
The other mod is pretty good too, though it has a crash when you use Ammo Banditos on one particular deck: [url]http://www.moddb.com/games/bioshock/downloads/silvers-bioshock-mod-72-alpha[/url]
They helped mix things up a little bit more by randomizing the loot better, improving the AI a little, and overall making the game harder. Reborn even adds in some new tonics and plasmids too.
The AI was one difference I noticed between Infinite and 1, it actually seems better in Bioshock 1. I saw Splicers flanking me, going around oil spills/water pools, playing dead, leading me into ambushes, and faking me out when they'd run through a bunch of rooms to lose me.
[QUOTE=Sardonus;40175454]see I'm not totally a rabid fanboy I have some occasional points
most of the time I'm a rabid fanboy though.
like try and tell me silent hill 2 is bad and Iwill gut you[/QUOTE]
silent hill 2 was the poop
it wasn't even that silent
[QUOTE=Muntu;40175455]Such as?[/QUOTE]
well, for example
[sp]
there's infinite universes, which all differ in one or multiple variables
given that fact, wouldn't it be possible that somewhere, there's a universe, where booker was a socipathic killer and tortured his daughter? That would make the whole ending pointless. Booker saved Elizabeth only from being tortured by Comstock. But there's infinite more possibilities for her to have a shitty life. Booker didn't solve anything.
or the travellng inbetween timelines with Elizabeth. Does she take you through the tear, or open the tear and merge it with the current timeline? If we merely travel through, the dead guards shouldn't remember anything, they never travelled through.
If Elizabeth infacts "opens" the tear, and therefore merges 2 timelines together, why does only booker remember his previous endeavours, and not, say Daisy, for example? Or why doesn't he remember being dead, like the guards? [/sp]
there was more but I can't come up with much at the moment
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