Bioshock Infinite VIII: Please, call me Booker. - Games

streaming 1999 mode again if anyone is interested [url]http://www.twitch.tv/mopman999[/url]

[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;40175572]well, for example [sp] there's infinite universes, which all differ in one or multiple variables given that fact, wouldn't it be possible that somewhere, there's a universe, where booker was a socipathic killer and tortured his daughter? That would make the whole ending pointless. Booker saved Elizabeth only from being tortured by Comstock. But there's infinite more possibilities for her to have a shitty life. Booker didn't solve anything. or the travellng inbetween timelines with Elizabeth. Does she take you through the tear, or open the tear and merge it with the current timeline? If we merely travel through, the dead guards shouldn't remember anything, they never travelled through. If Elizabeth infacts "opens" the tear, and therefore merges 2 timelines together, why does only booker remember his previous endeavours, and not, say Daisy, for example? Or why doesn't he remember being dead, like the guards? [/sp] there was more but I can't come up with much at the moment[/QUOTE] [sp]Booker remembers dying for the Vox, it's just that being driven cripplingly insane by it wouldn't have been a very fun game[/sp]

I like BSI but compared to BS 1 I feel like BS1 has more of a message to tell while BS:I is more of an interesting story. BS 1 is more of a social critique while BS: I is more of a philosophical thing. What I dislike about BS : I (I've said it before) is that the story is so disconnected to the concepts of the world it plays in. The very same story could've happened in Rapture, Burkina Faso or a communist space station where mad scientists try to make races communist too by forcefully interbreeding humans. The Republican wet dream on LSD that is Columbia is a nice world, but Rapture was more elegant.

[QUOTE=Mellowbloom;40175606][sp]Booker remembers dying for the Vox, it's just that being driven cripplingly insane by it wouldn't have been a very fun game[/sp][/QUOTE] That doesn't really justify it for me. They should've did things differently, then. Why bother setting rules earlier in the game if you're not going to follow them.

[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;40175572]well, for example [sp] there's infinite universes, which all differ in one or multiple variables given that fact, wouldn't it be possible that somewhere, there's a universe, where booker was a socipathic killer and tortured his daughter? That would make the whole ending pointless. Booker saved Elizabeth only from being tortured by Comstock. But there's infinite more possibilities for her to have a shitty life. Booker didn't solve anything. or the travellng inbetween timelines with Elizabeth. Does she take you through the tear, or open the tear and merge it with the current timeline? If we merely travel through, the dead guards shouldn't remember anything, they never travelled through. If Elizabeth infacts "opens" the tear, and therefore merges 2 timelines together, why does only booker remember his previous endeavours, and not, say Daisy, for example? Or why doesn't he remember being dead, like the guards? [/sp] there was more but I can't come up with much at the moment[/QUOTE] I tried argueing this too a yesterday and the day before yesterday, [sp]if the multiverse applies to normal worlds, why does it not apply to the universe that intersects the multiverses?(players booker universe)[/sp] People ended up riding "but the game says constants and variables!" til I gave up.

[QUOTE=Killuah;40175662]I tried argueing this too a yesterday and the day before yesterday, [sp]if the multiverse applies to normal worlds, why does it not apply to the universe that intersects the multiverses?(players booker universe)[/sp] People ended up riding "but the game says constants and variables!" til I gave up.[/QUOTE] I think a lot of things would've made more sense if they ditched the whole [sp]infinite universes idea[/sp] and just went with [sp]a predefined amount of them.[/sp] also I think it does apply, actually. [sp]The story is already 123rd version of the possible outcome, isn't it?.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Killuah;40175627]I like BSI but compared to BS 1 I feel like BS1 has more of a message to tell while BS:I is more of an interesting story. BS 1 is more of a social critique while BS: I is more of a philosophical thing. What I dislike about BS : I (I've said it before) is that the story is so disconnected to the concepts of the world it plays in. The very same story could've happened in Rapture, Burkina Faso or a communist space station where mad scientists try to make races communist too by forcefully interbreeding humans. The Republican wet dream on LSD that is Columbia is a nice world, but Rapture was more elegant.[/QUOTE] I agree with this, and really didn't like how the game ended, but I still find BS:I much more memorable than the first one.

[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;40175572]well, for example [sp] there's infinite universes, which all differ in one or multiple variables given that fact, wouldn't it be possible that somewhere, there's a universe, where booker was a socipathic killer and tortured his daughter? That would make the whole ending pointless. Booker saved Elizabeth only from being tortured by Comstock. But there's infinite more possibilities for her to have a shitty life. Booker didn't solve anything.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]After all, we were out to save the particular Elizabeth that was "born" with Comstock. So no, it wouldn't make the whole ending pointless. Thinking like that, everything would be pointless because there are infinite different universes.[/sp] [QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;40175572] [sp] or the travellng inbetween timelines with Elizabeth. Does she take you through the tear, or open the tear and merge it with the current timeline? If we merely travel through, the dead guards shouldn't remember anything, they never travelled through. If Elizabeth infacts "opens" the tear, and therefore merges 2 timelines together, why does only booker remember his previous endeavours, and not, say Daisy, for example? Or why doesn't he remember being dead, like the guards? [/sp] there was more but I can't come up with much at the moment[/QUOTE] [sp]Quantum mechanics man, you have to leave something open. As I understand it, the infinite universes exist, in a way, in the same exact place. They aren't side by side in some empty space. I'd say Liz merely opens a hole to another universe through which our protags then travel, but some of the other universe's matter comes along. At the center, the tear, all of the matter from universe a travels to universe b, and starting to move away from the tear, less and less does. If it so happens that a person is in the same spot in both universes, some of himself gets quantum entangled, which causes the memories to bleed through.[/sp]

[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;40175634]That doesn't really justify it for me. They should've did things differently, then. Why bother setting rules earlier in the game if you're not going to follow them.[/QUOTE] Didn't Elizabeth snap Booker out of it when his nose started bleeding?

[QUOTE=meppers;40175156][sp]how does the final confrontation of slate play out if you choose to kill slate?[/sp][/QUOTE] It's quite shocking really, [sp]you shoot him and he dies[/sp]. seriously thats all, nothing else changes except [sp]not finding his body in the good time club[/sp].

Well that was quite the ending. Can anyone remind me what the AD stood for on Bookers hand? Overall it felt like more of a (this is an opinion) shoot'em up, as I didn't find vigors to be game changing. 9/10 times I was using a vigor, it was the crow(best one, no doubt).

[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;40175715]I think a lot of things would've made more sense if they ditched the whole [sp]infinite universes idea[/sp] and just went with [sp]a predefined amount of them.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Having the axiom of "there are multiple universes and one has the power to move between them" has the existence of infinite universes as a last consequence. Imagine universe A and universe B and you move from A to B. That creates universe C, the one where you were in A and then in B. It's much like math. Knowing that, the whole "but there are only 6 Elizabeths at the drowning" argument is weak too since these are only the ones that would need to( and could) prevent Comstock from existing in a world where Comstock is created by the Baptism. There are endless of other ways where Comstock is created by something other than the Baptism. And that makes the drowning as an ending a bit weak too. For once there are the universes we didn't prevent and for second the prevention of those creates an additional group of universes where they came together but didn't drown booker. [/sp]

[QUOTE=credesniper;40175802]Well that was quite the ending. Can anyone remind me what the AD stood for on Bookers hand? Overall it felt like more of a (this is an opinion) shoot'em up, as I didn't find vigors to be game changing. 9/10 times I was using a vigor, it was the crow(best one, no doubt).[/QUOTE] It stood for [sp]Anna DeWitt[/sp]

[QUOTE=Muntu;40175772][sp]After all, we were out to save the particular Elizabeth that was "born" with Comstock. So no, it wouldn't make the whole ending pointless. Thinking like that, everything would be pointless because there are infinite different universes.[/sp] [sp]Quantum mechanics man, you have to leave something open. As I understand it, the infinite universes exist, in a way, in the same exact place. They aren't side by side in some empty space. I'd say Liz merely opens a hole to another universe through which our protags then travel, but some of the other universe's matter comes along. At the center, the tear, all of the matter from universe a travels to universe b, and starting to move away from the tear, less and less does. If it so happens that a person is in the same spot in both universes, some of himself gets quantum entangled, which causes the memories to bleed through.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Doesn't work. Booker and Comstock would've fused in the finger-lost scene. [/sp]

[QUOTE=Muntu;40175772][sp]After all, we were out to save the particular Elizabeth that was "born" with Comstock. So no, it wouldn't make the whole ending pointless. Thinking like that, everything would be pointless because there are infinite different universes.[/sp][/QUOTE] that's the gripe I have with the whole concept. It makes everything pointless. [QUOTE=Muntu;40175772] [sp]Quantum mechanics man, you have to leave something open. As I understand it, the infinite universes exist, in a way, in the same exact place. They aren't side by side in some empty space. I'd say Liz merely opens a hole to another universe through which our protags then travel, but some of the other universe's matter comes along. At the center, the tear, all of the matter from universe a travels to universe b, and starting to move away from the tear, less and less does. If it so happens that a person is in the same spot in both universes, some of himself gets quantum entangled, which causes the memories to bleed through.[/sp] [/QUOTE] hmm, you explained this well. And it actually makes sense. Well, that's one problem off the list. :v:

I hope I don't come across too negative, the game is still easily GOTY so far. It's just that I have a feeling that when I replay it in a few weeks, stuff like the "streamlined" gameplay and more obvious design shortcomings will play a bigger role once the novelty of a game finally leaving things open for interpretation like a good book and a good movie wears off.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;40175262]i wouldn't call BSI's ending amazing, it'd just say it was very surprising because not many games have really had a "lol 2bad you won't know shit" ending.[/QUOTE] Pretty much every indie game ever made ever has had that ending

From 'Girls just want to have fun Bioshock Infinite soundtrack' on youtube. [IMG]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23999490/onlygirlscanhavefun.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Killuah;40175824][sp]Doesn't work. Booker and Comstock would've fused in the finger-lost scene. [/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Wasn't that opened by Lutece's machine or something? Now I haven't heard all of the audio logs in the game, but wouldn't it be plausible to assume that Elizabeth's tears and Lutece's machine-produced holes are fundamentally different?[/sp]

[QUOTE=Killuah;40175803][sp]Having the axiom of "there are multiple universes and one has the power to move between them" has the existence of infinite universes as a last consequence. Imagine universe A and universe B and you move from A to B. That creates universe C, the one where you were in A and then in B. It's much like math.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]We have to settle on whether the universes are created with a choice being made, or if they already exist simultanously, from the beginning of time. Having the universes being created when a choice is made gives us a lot of inconsistencies in the ending - drowning booker would've happened at a time where there was only one universe taken into account, which was about to branch out. Therefore killing both all comstock bookers and all player bookers. Comstock Booker universe nor Player Booker universe didn't exist at the time he was drowned. The post-credits scene doesn't make sense anymore. Well, and the second option disproves your idea, as it's based on the branching concept.[/sp]

[sp]Doesn't the memory fusing only happen if they died in another dimension that is being affected by the Looping[/sp] [editline]5th April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;40175940][sp]We have to settle on whether the universes are created with a choice being made, or if they already exist simultanously, from the beginning of time. Having the universes being created when a choice is made gives us a lot of inconsistencies in the ending - drowning booker would've happened at a time where there was only one universe taken into account, which was about to branch out. Therefore killing both all comstock bookers and all player bookers. Comstock Booker universe nor Player Booker universe didn't exist at the time he was drowned. The post-credits scene doesn't make sense anymore. Well, and the second option disproves your idea, as it's based on the branching concept.[/sp][/QUOTE] I believe [sp]Multiverse theory only works if they all already exist. Time is not a straight line when considering it in such a context. Everything happens, has happened and will happen. "Dies, died, will die".[/sp]

Can someone give me just a clue as to where the [sp]vox code in emporia is? I have the cipher book, but cant find the code for the life of me, I've opened all the lockpick areas I could find and no dice[/sp] This is my second play through and I still cant find it.

[QUOTE=Kenneth;40175967]Can someone give me just a clue as to where the [sp]vox code in emporia is? I have the cipher book, but cant find the code for the life of me, I've opened all the lockpick areas I could find and no dice[/sp] This is my second play through and I still cant find it.[/QUOTE] Inside the bank of our prophet on a desk.

[QUOTE=Muntu;40175888][sp]Wasn't that opened by Lutece's machine or something? Now I haven't heard all of the audio logs in the game, but wouldn't it be plausible to assume that Elizabeth's tears and Lutece's machine-produced holes are fundamentally different?[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Nothing indicates that. They both are connections to other universes, they both allow things to go through. It's actually more plausible to assume that they are the same. Remember the one where the train or car or what it was was coming. That wasn't different to the one we see when Anna changes worlds[/sp]

[QUOTE=Winters;40175979]Inside the bank of our prophet on a desk.[/QUOTE] I already have that, you don't need the cipher for that one. The objective is still showing

[QUOTE=Killuah;40175984][sp]Nothing indicates that. They both are connections to other universes, they both allow things to go through. It's actually more plausible to assume that they are the same. Remember the one where the train or car or what it was was coming. That wasn't different to the one we see when Anna changes worlds[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Doesn't the memory fusing only happen if they died in another dimension that is being affected by the Looping which they are now affect themselves[/sp]

I'm going to bed, now. It's a great game and the story idea is brilliant, too. There's a lot of unexplained things and inconsistencies which bother me, though. However it is sort of inevitable with space-time-travel based plots.

EDIT: Ugh, nevermind. Internet doesn't want to co-operate today.

[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;40175940][sp]We have to settle on whether the universes are created with a choice being made, or if they already exist simultanously, from the beginning of time. Having the universes being created when a choice is made gives us a lot of inconsistencies in the ending - drowning booker would've happened at a time where there was only one universe taken into account, which was about to branch out. Therefore killing both all comstock bookers and all player bookers. Comstock Booker universe nor Player Booker universe didn't exist at the time he was drowned. The post-credits scene doesn't make sense anymore. Well, and the second option disproves your idea, as it's based on the branching concept.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Of course, But both options make the ending meaningless. If multiple universes exist from the very beginning and not from choices being made, all of the action is useless. We are simply playing one of infinite timelines happening. Much like you can chose a number out of an endless amount of numbers. But that means the oh so moral and tragic drowning of Booker is meaningless. Elli knows of the multiverses, she "can see them all" and despite that choses to drown Booker. She's either not seeing the universes where everything, the whole game including everything up to the 6 Ellis at the Baptism point,, but Booker is NOT drowned, or she's seeing them and drowns him nevertheless. If the universes branch out every time a choice is made, the story is equaly meaningless, as the point where she asks him if he really wants to erase Comstock under all circumstances creates a new different branch that we just don't play where he simply says "no" and thus the drowning, while in the "yes" universes quite ok, yay no Comstock, is just a dick-move in the greater perspective. It's as if you want to get rid of a ripe weed. You can either rip it out of the ground but you'll 100%-ly spill some weeds-seeds or let it be. From an outer perspective, when every decision creates a new branch, any change is a mere illusion and Ellisabeth should've seen and known it and if I decide for that theory I dislike her even more.[/sp] Also who and what is the goddamn songbird? They pretty much teased the whole game with it beforehand and now there is next to no info about him in the game at all besides the few sentences from Ellisabeth.

[QUOTE=Killuah;40176173] Also who and what is the goddamn songbird? They pretty much teased the whole game with it beforehand and now there is next to no info about him in the game at all besides the few sentences from Ellisabeth.[/QUOTE] [sp]Songbird is the Big-Daddy inspired (Fink saw them through tears), gaurdian created for Elizabeth to make sure she stays in the "Monument"[/sp]