[QUOTE=SgtTupelo;40181735][sp]Doesn't it say somewhere in the game that they got the drawings from another reality and made Songbird based on that? It could have been Big Daddys drawing from Rapture.[/sp][/QUOTE]
The Songbird could be a [sp]copy of the Big Daddy technology. There are drawings of him in Finks Factory. In a Voxophone, he said that the Songbird is based on a technology "a merger of machine and man, that was the lesser of man yet the greater of both parties" which he observed through a tear.
Also, right when the Songbird dies, you see a dead Big Daddy behind him, which could imply the connection between the two.[/sp]
So I've decided to buy and screw around with Bucking Bronco during the raffle chapter and WHAT THE CHRIST
[t]http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/848075970749870103/ABDE70716D7739FA38632890FA9999C142637643/[/t]
Hello new avatar
Does anyone else agree this game would have got a lot lower score if it didn't have 'Bioshock' slapped in front? This game was no where near as good as the original Bioshock but people seem to think it is I am curious as to why?
I am not trying to be a troll or anything I would like to have a discussion about this game, a lot of people think it didn't live up to it's expectations and the only reason magazines and gaming medias gave it 9s and 10s was because if they didn't they'd get abused by the fanboys (this is usually the case for call of duty and such).
I can sum this game up in four words
Generic. First-person. Shooter.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;40181281]does anybody wonder who is the songbird??
[sp]maybe it is bookers. he is the songbird. everyone is booker.
but maybe he is another booker. i mean who else would be so protective of her? does the game ever establish who is in the songbird? or is there anybody in it? it seems like it can't possibly be a robot. so it must be like a big daddy[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]Fink confirms it's based off a Big Daddy, so at one point it was human, but grafted into a suit. The Booker theory isn't bad, but that's grasping at straws. I think more likely it's some poor shmuck who got turned into the bird[/sp]
[QUOTE=Two-Bit;40182241]I can sum this game up in four words
Generic. First-person. Shooter.[/QUOTE]
Ah yes, you're right, I remember all those times in Call of Battlefield Warfighter where I shot crows out of my hand at a man mostly made of fire while I slid along a rail on a hook attached to my arm. And man, that art design? And the setting? Pah, totally generic! Seen it a thousand times before! Obviously the praise is all because of the name.
On a serious note, at this point I find it kind of pointless to compare it to the first Bioshock. It's really obvious that they are two almost entirely different games, Infinite wanted to be a fast-paced, action-oriented game with a more grandiose story, while Bioshock wanted to be more grounded, slow-paced and personal. That doesn't mean that either are immune to criticism, and it doesn't mean that either are objectively better or worse, it just means that they are quite clearly different games. Ironically, I think Bioshock being in the name will be worse for it in the long run for exactly this reason.
[QUOTE=Two-Bit;40182241]
I can sum this game up in four words
Generic. First-person. Shooter.[/QUOTE]
Generic? By what grounds...? Maybe the gameplay was pretty generic, except you can shoot elements out of your hands. Oh and the enemies aren't just arabs with guns.
But the story, atmosphere and environments? Not even close
You say it's only praised because it's called Bioshock. I say it goes vice versa too, it's criticized very harshly because it's called Bioshock.
[QUOTE=Two-Bit;40182241]Does anyone else agree this game would have got a lot lower score if it didn't have 'Bioshock' slapped in front? This game was no where near as good as the original Bioshock but people seem to think it is I am curious as to why?
I am not trying to be a troll or anything I would like to have a discussion about this game, a lot of people think it didn't live up to it's expectations and the only reason magazines and gaming medias gave it 9s and 10s was because if they didn't they'd get abused by the fanboys (this is usually the case for call of duty and such).
I can sum this game up in four words
Generic. First-person. Shooter.[/QUOTE]
This IS a joke, right? Please tell me it is. There's only 2 ways you can think this is a generic FPS - you haven't played it or you've played it but have some kind of mental disability. This game isn't generic in pretty much any way you can think of. Do you maybe not actually know what "generic" means?
[QUOTE=Sardonus;40182350][sp]Fink confirms it's based off a Big Daddy, so at one point it was human, but grafted into a suit. The Booker theory isn't bad, but that's grasping at straws. I think more likely it's some poor shmuck who got turned into the bird[/sp][/QUOTE]
Thing is, [sp]Songbird has quite the attraction to Elizabeth. He wouldn't let Elizabeth out of his sight, even if it means death. Somewhat like how Booker goes through thick and thin just to get Elizabeth for a debt. Wouldn't surprise me if the guy in Songbird was a Booker. A Booker that isn't there to get her, but there to protect her, even if he dies[/sp]
[QUOTE=Two-Bit;40182241]
I can sum this game up in four words
Generic. First-person. Shooter.[/QUOTE]
Let me finish it up first. Then we can agree or agree to disagree.
[QUOTE=Rocko's;40182453]Thing is, [sp]Songbird has quite the attraction to Elizabeth. He wouldn't let Elizabeth out of his sight, even if it means death. Somewhat like how Booker goes through thick and thin just to get Elizabeth for a debt. Wouldn't surprise me if the guy in Songbird was a Booker. A Booker that isn't there to get her, but there to protect her, even if he dies[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]Or it could just be programmed to. But hey interpretations are good![/sp]
[QUOTE=Two-Bit;40182241]Does anyone else agree this game would have got a lot lower score if it didn't have 'Bioshock' slapped in front? This game was no where near as good as the original Bioshock but people seem to think it is I am curious as to why?
I am not trying to be a troll or anything I would like to have a discussion about this game, a lot of people think it didn't live up to it's expectations and the only reason magazines and gaming medias gave it 9s and 10s was because if they didn't they'd get abused by the fanboys (this is usually the case for call of duty and such).
I can sum this game up in four words
Generic. First-person. Shooter.[/QUOTE]
Would a generic FPS game generate as much discussion as this game though? I'm guessing you're talking about the game play elements.
But I've enjoyed quite a lot of the discussions and speculations about the main plot, the recordings and all the different links people are drawing between things both inside the game and to our world. The Infinite world is well designed and pretty damn detailed. Touches some interesting themes.
Don't see what's so generic about that.
When I think of a generic FPS, I can't but think of something like QUAKE 4 or Counter Strike or COD.
[QUOTE=MoarToast;40182379]Ah yes, you're right, I remember all those times in Call of Battlefield Warfighter where I shot crows out of my hand at a man mostly made of fire while I slid along a rail on a hook attached to my arm. And man, that art design? And the setting? Pah, totally generic! Seen it a thousand times before! Obviously the praise is all because of the name.
[/QUOTE]
Do you think having a couple of game play mechanics stops it from being generic? To be honest this game could easily be regarded as an add on or (DLC) for the original bioshocks, at least the original bioshocks had decent things like water for electricity, oil for fire, hacking etc. This seems to just be go here kill this go there kill that pick up this oops low on health oh wait there is that random girl following me who throws me whatever I need so there is no need to scavenge or get money or buy anything cause she can just supply me with an endless amount of items and cash.
The story line is meh, it really doesn't interest me (no where near as much as the original bioshock). The art design Victorian Era it's been done before, a lot. floating sky good concept but not amazing. Characters are bland, combat is boring empty a whole clip of a machine gun into a guy throw a few spells at him, run out of 'salt'(I did like how in the original they called it EVE and plasmids) the naming conventions of most of the stuff in this game seem dull and uninspired.
i reckon if it wasnt called Bioshock it would rate better so it doesnt have to carry the baggage of its two older brothers.
Some people would agree that Bioshock 1/2 has better shooter and rpg mechanics. But you have to understand that the shooting is there to carry the story.
We love the story. The shooting is something you have to do to experience the story.
A generic shooter is Aliens. Or Duke. Or Rage. We dont care about them.
We will still be talking about Infinite in 5 yrs time just like Bioshock 1.
Granted the gameplay has been dumbed down, console-ised, streamlined but its a minor point.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;40182498]Would a generic FPS game generate as much discussion as this game though? I'm guessing you're talking about the game play elements.
But I've enjoyed quite a lot of the discussions and speculations about the main plot, the recordings and all the different links people are drawing between things both inside the game and to our world. The Infinite world is well designed and pretty damn detailed. Touches some interesting themes.
Don't see what's so generic about that.
When I think of a generic FPS, I can't but think of something like QUAKE 4 or Counter Strike or COD.[/QUOTE]
When I think about generic FPS I am more referring to big companies making generic games that run on a certain criteria, they have a game engine that was probably made 10 years ago that they just modify with different mechanics (in this it was vigor?, in something like dishonored it was those special abilities) then they have a company that thought of a story to add to it, maybe the story will have depth and meaning, maybe not, 8/10 times it doesn't. Generic games have a strick formula that the makes have to follow because for the fact it sells. Look at Call of Duty, they don't change because people like it (I personally don't) but like I said before it sells, the game companies know this formula and use it to make these (imo) bad games.
Doesn't mean I need to like them.
[editline]7th April 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=TonyJZX;40182556]i reckon if it wasnt called Bioshock it would rate better so it doesnt have to carry the baggage of its two older brothers.
Some people would agree that Bioshock 1/2 has better shooter and rpg mechanics. But you have to understand that the shooting is there to carry the story.
We love the story. The shooting is something you have to do to experience the story.
A generic shooter is Aliens. Or Duke. Or Rage. We dont care about them.
We will still be talking about Infinite in 5 yrs time just like Bioshock 1.
Granted the gameplay has been dumbed down, console-ised, streamlined but its a minor point.[/QUOTE]
I personally think Bioshock 1 is regarded as a classic among console shooter RPGs (although not much of an RPG)
Do you think Infinite will be regarded as a 'classic'?
[QUOTE=Two-Bit;40182626]When I think about generic FPS I am more referring to big companies making generic games that run on a certain criteria, they have a game engine that was probably made 10 years ago that they just modify with different mechanics (in this it was vigor?, in something like dishonored it was those special abilities) then they have a company that thought of a story to add to it, maybe the story will have depth and meaning, maybe not, 8/10 times it doesn't. Generic games have a strick formula that the makes have to follow because for the fact it sells. Look at Call of Duty, they don't change because people like it (I personally don't) but like I said before it sells, the game companies know this formula and use it to make these (imo) bad games.
Doesn't mean I need to like them.[/QUOTE]
So how is Infinite generic? Pretty much none of those things apply to it.
[QUOTE=Two-Bit;40182626]When I think about generic FPS I am more referring to big companies making generic games that run on a certain criteria, they have a game engine that was probably made 10 years ago that they just modify with different mechanics (in this it was vigor?, in something like dishonored it was those special abilities) then they have a company that thought of a story to add to it, maybe the story will have depth and meaning, maybe not, 8/10 times it doesn't. Generic games have a strick formula that the makes have to follow because for the fact it sells. Look at Call of Duty, they don't change because people like it (I personally don't) but like I said before it sells, the game companies know this formula and use it to make these (imo) bad games.
Doesn't mean I need to like them.
[/QUOTE]
Okay, did you actually finish the game? A few hours ago you said you wanted to start from the beginning on 1999 mode but couldn't do it because you didn't finish it...
[QUOTE=YorkMorgan;40182665]So how is Infinite generic? Pretty much none of those things apply to it.[/QUOTE]
How so? It has a linear plot, run gun shooting with a few extras thrown in in like the occasional mini boss or 'secret area'. The game engine is just another 'unreal engine - modified'. Sure games can be made in this engine and not be generic but when it's a big publisher it more than likely will be.
[editline]7th April 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Swebonny;40182693]Okay, did you actually finish the game? A few hours ago you said you wanted to start from the beginning on 1999 mode but couldn't do it because you didn't finish it...[/QUOTE]
Aye mate currently playing the 1999 mode only up to the weapons manufacturer guy with the 3 mini boss fights. I can only play it so long before I get bored, will continue playing it tomorrow.
Of course once I am finished with this apparent 'superb ending' I will share my ever so wanted thoughts and final review.
[QUOTE=Two-Bit;40182704]
Aye mate currently playing the 1999 mode only up to the weapons manufacturer guy with the 3 mini boss fights. I can only play it so long before I get bored, will continue playing it tomorrow.
Of course once I am finished with this apparent 'superb ending' I will share my ever so wanted thoughts and final review.[/QUOTE]
Yeah the ending is pretty interesting. Keep playing.
[QUOTE=Two-Bit;40182704]How so? It has a linear plot, run gun shooting with a few extras thrown in in like the occasional mini boss or 'secret area'. The game engine is just another 'unreal engine - modified'. Sure games can be made in this engine and not be generic but when it's a big publisher it more than likely will be.[/QUOTE]
Since when is "linear plot" a negative thing? The combat is only run and gun if you're playing it as run and gun, which will only really work on the lower difficulites, there's all the powers you have, different combinations of them and different ways to use them, a bunch of different ways to change environment using the tears and many ways to move around the environment by jumping on the rails, by that logic you could sum up any game as "run gun shoot", even the original Bioshock. And what the fuck does the engine have to do with anything? The game looks beautiful and has a great artstyle, why the hell does it matter that it's running on a widely used engine?
I could understand preferring the first Bioshock to Infinite, as I've seen a few points raised about Infinite that didn't bother me, but are undeniable: essentially that some of the aspects of Bioshock Infinite's story feel like they did not get enough attention and feel glossed over as opposed to Bioshock 1 where everything in the game world is fleshed out.
That said, I still love Infinite for the story it does tell, the story of Elizabeth, Booker, and Comstock, and while it would have been nice to see more aspects get some needed attention, it didn't cripple my experience. The city of Columbia enthralled me just as Rapture did, and Columbia has it's fair share of secrets to find hidden in the environment. Skylines, hooks, and opening tears were pretty fun gameplay additions, and felt much better then the hacking equivalents in Bioshock 1 (Having to hack a whole room of turrets in Bioshock 1 was tedious).
Though where I'd disagree is calling Infinite "generic". Say what you want about Infinite's shortcomings, but I feel like people who say it's mediocre are doing so at a disservice at all the obvious effort that went into Bioshock Infinite. If you want mediocrity, just play the latest iteration of Call of Duty/Battlefield/Assassin's Creed.
If anything, the combat in Infinite is way more varied than in the original Bioshock. In Bioshock, most enemy encounters were just in enclosed rooms, while in Infinite, most of them take place in large environments with a ton of possible vertical movement. And the tears you can activate add a whole new layer of tactics to the combat.
[QUOTE=Two-Bit;40182540]Do you think having a couple of game play mechanics stops it from being generic?[/QUOTE]
Kinda, yeah. It's meant to be a fast-paced first person shooter, it has a few mechanics to spice it up and let you approach things from different angles. If there were corridors without much room to breathe in most parts of the game, I'd agree with you. As it stands, it just seems you aren't one for first-person shooters.
[QUOTE=Two-Bit;40182540]To be honest this game could easily be regarded as an add on or (DLC) for the original bioshocks[/QUOTE]
What?
[QUOTE=Two-Bit;40182540]at least the original bioshocks had decent things like water for electricity, oil for fire, hacking etc.[/QUOTE]
This game still has those. Even hacking is still in in the form of Possession, except instead of a tedious minigame, it takes some salts away.
[QUOTE=Two-Bit;40182540]This seems to just be go here kill this go there kill that pick up this[/QUOTE]
wow you mean like most video games including the first bioshock???
[QUOTE=Two-Bit;40182540]oops low on health oh wait there is that random girl following me who throws me whatever I need so there is no need to scavenge or get money or buy anything cause she can just supply me with an endless amount of items and cash.[/QUOTE]
random girl, ok
and she has a cooldown time on throwing you items, can only throw one kind at a time to you, and won't give you anything but a small bit of cash outside of combat, scavenging is still pretty necessary.
[QUOTE=Two-Bit;40182540]The story line is meh, it really doesn't interest me (no where near as much as the original bioshock). The art design Victorian Era it's been done before, a lot. floating sky good concept but not amazing. Characters are bland[/QUOTE]
Okay, fair enough, the story doesn't interest you. I admit the presentation can be hit and miss in parts and that the story took precedent over the characters, and basically the only 3-dimensional characters in the game seem to be Booker and Elizabeth. And yes, the art design has been done before in quite a few forms, but I'd hardly call it outright "generic". Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
[QUOTE=Two-Bit;40182540]combat is boring empty a whole clip of a machine gun into a guy throw a few spells at him, run out of 'salt'(I did like how in the original they called it EVE and plasmids) the naming conventions of most of the stuff in this game seem dull and uninspired.[/QUOTE]
Combat is far from boring if you utilize more than the bullets in your gun and one or two vigors. Use the skylines, use traps, get Elizabeth to open a few useful tears, possess an enemy. The game gives you plenty to work with and does what it can with its formula.
Naming conventions aren't really as clever as the original Bioshock, but they fit the period and the setting, so I can take the clever naming or leave it.
I have the feeling that shooters just aren't for you, man. That's fine, and I would like to see another slower-paced Shock game (And again, the Bioshock name is more of a detriment to Infinite than is is a benefit), but Infinite is very much a shooter, one that doesn't really want to be a hybrid of RPG and shooter, either. I don't want to tell you to "Just deal with it", because then I'd sound like even more of a ponce, but I don't really know what else to say, it just isn't your thing.
Tears are real. Levine found one that opened into [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lighthouse:_The_Dark_Being]1996[/url].
[img]http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/2/24038/2465765-1365218436383.jpg[/img]
[img]http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/9408/716861-549074.png[/img]
So, I have a giant question about the plot I've yet to find an answer to.
just why and HOW did Booker go to Columbia?
[sp]Columbia can't exist in a universe Booker is alive, so he has to have been warped in by the Lutece's. And why did they need him there. For what? To save Elizabeth? The Luteces are spacetime gods, surely they could've done it if they needed to. And why did they need to even?[/sp]
[QUOTE=Sardonus;40182955]So, I have a giant question about the plot I've yet to find an answer to.
just why and HOW did Booker go to Columbia?
[sp]Columbia can't exist in a universe Booker is alive, so he has to have been warped in by the Lutece's. And why did they need him there. For what? To save Elizabeth? The Luteces are spacetime gods, surely they could've done it if they needed to. And why did they need to even?[/sp][/QUOTE]
the game specifically shows you this in the ending. i don't think you get the plot as much as you thought you did.
[sp]the whole thing was an experiment, because of how badly the comstock universe turned out, man lutece wanted to set things right. girl lutece was under the impression that it was unfixable but went along anyway because her brother was convinced they could set things right. they brought booker into the comstock universe. you literally have it happen to you in the game in the ending. and they're not gods exactly, they can just create tears. it doesn't grand them supreme control of anything, just the ability to go anywhere that exists as a possibility. they want to set everything right, prevent the whole thing from happening presumably because of how many lives are lost and people are hurt, including elizabeth, because it's their fault in the first place for creating the technology. they feel responsible. they opened up a tear and brought booker there to try and set things right.
how did you not get this? it's explicitly stated a shitload of times.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Rusty100;40182998]the game specifically shows you this in the ending. i don't think you get the plot as much as you thought you did.
[sp]the whole thing was an experiment, because of how badly the comstock universe turned out, man lutece wanted to set things right. girl lutece was under the impression that it was unfixable but went along anyway because her brother was convinced they could set things right. they brought booker into the comstock universe. you literally have it happen to you in the game in the ending. and they're not gods exactly, they can just create tears. it doesn't grand them supreme control of anything, just the ability to go anywhere that exists as a possibility. they want to set everything right, prevent the whole thing from happening presumably because of how many lives are lost and people are hurt, including elizabeth, because it's their fault in the first place for creating the technology. they feel responsible. they opened up a tear and brought booker there to try and set things right.
how did you not get this? it's explicitly stated a shitload of times.[/sp][/QUOTE]
I barely found any of the Voxophones, that's probably why. I had played through that final Zeppelin sequence about a hundred times so by the time I was ending I wasn't really paying attention and more just hoping to move on to go back to Far Cry.
I'll play it again a lot more critically thinking, trying to 100% like I did the first BVioshock
Yesterday my brother told me he'd read that you can [sp]Hear Songbird die in bioshock 1, is this true?[/sp]
[QUOTE=Kirbyfactor;40183054]Yesterday my brother told me he'd read that you can [sp]Hear Songbird die in bioshock 1, is this true?[/sp][/QUOTE]
not really, there's an ambient noise that plays in one of the levels constantly that sounds similar and may just be recycled.
When's the dlc coming out
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