[QUOTE=JJ Webby;40193784]Did anyone catch that easter egg with Kylie Minouge/Madonna? (Can't remember who it was.)[/QUOTE]
Cyndi Lauper?
[QUOTE=Swebonny;40193873]Cyndi Lauper?[/QUOTE]
Yes! that was it. Couldn't remember for the life of me.
So, what was up with the [sp]kinetoscopes[/sp] near the end of the game, where they begin to get really weird (Like the one that's [sp]just a shot of hummingbirds at a bush for 30 seconds[/sp])?
[QUOTE=TheWhiteFox1;40193981]So, what was up with the [sp]kinetoscopes[/sp] near the end of the game, where they begin to get really weird (Like the one that's [sp]just a shot of hummingbirds at a bush for 30 seconds[/sp])?[/QUOTE]
They're just pretty pictures. Mostly reminding you of what Columbia used to be like, creating a contrast.
Who was songbird ? I heard that tape where it was mentioned that the change is irreversible. No more info on that.
[QUOTE=JJ Webby;40193841]Near when [sp]You first fight lady cumsocks[/sp] there's a building that you can hop into with a tear, if you go to the tear you hear the song, might be material girl, and a voxophone which is basically praising the guy who lives there for creating such wonderful music, saying how he doesn't know where he gets his talent but that he could be the Mozart of Columbia.[/QUOTE]
man you are really out of the loop. that's cydni lauper's girls just wanna have fun. it plays in other parts of the game too. not much of an easteregg, more a part of the story.
[QUOTE=fritzel;40194050]Who was songbird ? I heard that tape where it was mentioned that the change is irreversible. No more info on that.[/QUOTE]
[sp]I'm totally up to the idea it's a alternative booker that got turned into songbird[/sp]
[sp]So why did Comstark want to kill everyone outside the city so much? Just because they didn't think the same?[/sp]
[QUOTE=Thom12255;40194098][sp]So why did Comstark want to kill everyone outside the city so much? Just because they didn't think the same?[/sp][/QUOTE]
Because they are the sodom below.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;40194080]man you are really out of the loop. that's cydni lauper's girls just wanna have fun. it plays in other parts of the game too. not much of an easteregg, more a part of the story.[/QUOTE]
Must've totally overlooked it, still funny none the less. Also, I've noticed in the lighthouse right at the start there's snoring. I mean, there's a dead guy in a chair but where the hell is this snoring coming from?
[QUOTE=JJ Webby;40194237]Must've totally overlooked it, still funny none the less. Also, I've noticed in the lighthouse right at the start there's snoring. I mean, there's a dead guy in a chair but where the hell is this snoring coming from?[/QUOTE]
You sure that's not just the wood creaking?
yeah there's no snowing. it's probably the rain or ambient noise
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;40194265]You sure that's not just the wood creaking?[/QUOTE]
That's what I thought but there was definitely snoring, along with the creaking wood of course.
there are no other rooms in that lighthouse and there's nothing story related about snoring. there's no snoring dude lol
[QUOTE=Rusty100;40194323]there are no other rooms in that lighthouse and there's nothing story related about snoring. there's no snoring dude lol[/QUOTE]
Call me crazy, I guess.
I was thinking of a final showdown with Songbird...welp...no parallel universe for that ?
Just like how in Alan Wake, there are two outcomes of putting a revolver to your head and pressing the trigger. In one, the bullet hits you and in another the bullet never got fired.
[sp]So, shouldn't there be an outcome where Booker survived the drowning ? The whole mutiverse thing opens up infinite possibilities and yet the end converges to few.[/sp]
[editline]7th April 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sir Drone;40194084][sp]I'm totally up to the idea it's a alternative booker that got turned into songbird[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]So, Comstock captured one Booker and subjected him to irreversible change ?[/sp]
[QUOTE=JJ Webby;40194237]Must've totally overlooked it, still funny none the less. Also, I've noticed in the lighthouse right at the start there's snoring. I mean, there's a dead guy in a chair but where the hell is this snoring coming from?[/QUOTE]
I heard that too but I'm pretty sure it's the wind/creaking.
[QUOTE=fritzel;40194355][sp]So, shouldn't there be an outcome where Booker survived the drowning ? The whole mutiverse thing opens up infinite possibilities and yet the end converges to few.[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]God!Elizabeth makes sure that Booker dies during the drowning/"baptism." It's a constant, not a variable. Now that Booker will ALWAYS die if he were to accept the baptism, the only possible outcome is if he refuses it, AKA no Comstock.[/sp]
[sp]Also, Old!Elizabeth says that, no matter what, a Booker and Songbird confrontation will always kill Booker (Since she has destroyed her Siphon, she can see the alternate universes as well). Doesn't mean that a possible fight can't be DLC later on, though.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Magikoopa24;40194523][sp]God!Elizabeth makes sure that Booker dies during the drowning/"baptism." It's a constant, not a variable. Now that Booker will ALWAYS die if he were to accept the baptism, the only possible outcome is if he refuses it, AKA no Comstock.[/sp]
[/QUOTE]
How is that a constant ? I see separate branches emanating from that point. Where do we draw the line ?
one thing i don't get about the ending is [sp]how do you make the distinction that every time booker accepts the baptism he dies. isn't the point that you're not even given the option to choose, either way you die? is it that all copies of booker always go to that point, and even if there's the possibility that they'll choose they'll die, thus that if they don't go at all they survive? because the normal booker timeline we're used to is that he goes, and then refuses it. unless he didn't go in the first place and if he goes he dies. is that how he "survives" at the end? he just never went to the water at all?[/sp]
[editline]7th April 2013[/editline]
aka was [sp]going to the water a constant and accepting the baptism a variable or is going to the water in the first place a variable, because the game makes it seem that it's inevitable that booker goes to the water and thus he has to die and eliminate himself completely[/sp]
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;40194770]one thing i don't get about the ending is [sp]how do you make the distinction that every time booker accepts the baptism he dies. isn't the point that you're not even given the option to choose, either way you die? is it that all copies of booker always go to that point, and even if there's the possibility that they'll choose they'll die, thus that if they don't go at all they survive? because the normal booker timeline we're used to is that he goes, and then refuses it. unless he didn't go in the first place and if he goes he dies. is that how he "survives" at the end? he just never went to the water at all?[/sp]
[editline]7th April 2013[/editline]
aka was [sp]going to the water a constant and accepting the baptism a variable or is going to the water in the first place a variable, because the game makes it seem that it's inevitable that booker goes to the water and thus he has to die and eliminate himself completely[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]Going to the baptism is a constant. Accepting it or not is a variable.
There are two outcomes there, regularly. One where he accepts the baptism and is reborn as Comstock.
The other where he doesn't and remains Booker Dewitt.
They made sure that the Comstock outcome is eliminated completely, as he is drowned when he accepts the baptism.
So the only way for any of the Bookers to live is for them to not take the baptism.
Thus, Booker lives, but only the ones that don't take the baptism.[/sp]
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;40194770]one thing i don't get about the ending is [sp]how do you make the distinction that every time booker accepts the baptism he dies. isn't the point that you're not even given the option to choose, either way you die? is it that all copies of booker always go to that point, and even if there's the possibility that they'll choose they'll die, thus that if they don't go at all they survive? because the normal booker timeline we're used to is that he goes, and then refuses it. unless he didn't go in the first place and if he goes he dies. is that how he "survives" at the end? he just never went to the water at all?[/sp]
[editline]7th April 2013[/editline]
aka was [sp]going to the water a constant and accepting the baptism a variable or is going to the water in the first place a variable, because the game makes it seem that it's inevitable that booker goes to the water and thus he has to die and eliminate himself completely[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]If you recall, you visit both timeline's baptisms. In the one where Booker rejects, he continues living. Elizabeth doesn't kill you there. That's why you jump into the Comstock timeline where he accepts. You are only killed in this timeline (jumping into that timeline has you assume the role of Booker in that timeline, rather than creating a clone that would just watch it happen.). Leaving universe jumping booker to be sucked back into the only timeline that CAN continue, hence the after credit scene, where he has Anna, and he cannot sell to Comstock because he does not exist. It's a happy ending. You WERE killed, but as the game says via the Luteces, dead is not dead. Whether through it's just the way the universe works or whether an omnipotent Elizabeth helps you out, it seems like the Booker you play as, not an alternate one, is the one transported back to the only continuing timeline for him. Heck, it could be an allegory for the afterlife, an idea that when you die, you don't die. Who knows.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Jojje;40194851][sp]Going to the baptism is a constant. Accepting it or not is a variable.
There are two outcomes there, regularly. One where he accepts the baptism and is reborn as Comstock.
The other where he doesn't and remains Booker Dewitt.
They made sure that the Comstock outcome is eliminated completely, as he is drowned when he accepts the baptism.
So the only way for any of the Bookers to live is for them to not take the baptism.
Thus, Booker lives, but only the ones that don't take the baptism.[/sp][/QUOTE]
no, [sp]i don't think it's that he dies whenever he accepts the baptism, because it's not the priest doing it and clearly booker isn't retroactively doing that. i think rusty is right, i think the constant has to be shifted to a variable in order to make the post credits sequence make any sense. note how no one is actually at the water when he and elizabeth are there as well.[/sp]
[editline]7th April 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rusty100;40194865]wait wait snip i got that wrong lemme rewrite[/QUOTE]
no i think you got it right [sp]it's just that booker does go down the alcoholism and gambling path shit this time etc - forcing him to deal with what he's done in the past - but now there's no comstock to get the luteces to send into the dimension to get anna, so he never loses her. he might still be a shit dad (and will be in some universes obviously) but none of the dad shittiness will result in fucking up the universes[/sp]
[editline]7th April 2013[/editline]
bad rusty editing posts so the things i say get messed up
I think that [sp]Elizabeth gave him the gift of memory of all he's lived through. I think she killed you knowlingly that you can be sent elsewhere with memory intact, just like all the people you killed who were unkilled after a tear. They remembered it, but couldn't deal with it. So I dunno, I think regardless of whether he's still in debt, he'd be a good father now.[/sp]
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;40194770]one thing i don't get about the ending is [sp]how do you make the distinction that every time booker accepts the baptism he dies. isn't the point that you're not even given the option to choose, either way you die? is it that all copies of booker always go to that point, and even if there's the possibility that they'll choose they'll die, thus that if they don't go at all they survive? because the normal booker timeline we're used to is that he goes, and then refuses it. unless he didn't go in the first place and if he goes he dies. is that how he "survives" at the end? he just never went to the water at all?[/sp]
[editline]7th April 2013[/editline]
aka was [sp]going to the water a constant and accepting the baptism a variable or is going to the water in the first place a variable, because the game makes it seem that it's inevitable that booker goes to the water and thus he has to die and eliminate himself completely[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]The baptism is a constant, accepting it is a variable, and according to the game, Comstock only exists if the baptism is accepted, so goes like constant -> variable -> constant.[/sp]
[sp]There's also the possibility that he never went the baptism, however that conclusion is same as if he went but refused[/sp]
[sp]Like I explained in the first page, let me give you another example (you can use more universes, the same conclusion will happen)
Universe A and B exist. (or C and D, or E and F, or X or Y)
A is an universe that he rejected OR never went
B is an universe that he accepted
A creates the playable character, Booker
B creates the 'bad guy' character, Comstock
The game (more specifically Elizabeth) bring the playable character to the beginning of the sentence 'A/B is an universe that he...'
Since things are working like constant -> variable -> constant, the game (or she) changes things into constant -> constant, removing this variable and becoming this:
A is an universe that he rejected OR never went
B is an universe that he accepted but died
A creates Booker
B creates no characters[/sp]
Right from the start of the game I always wondered [sp] who was dead in the chair in the lighthouse... [/sp]
-snip- double post
[QUOTE=normandy;40194968]Right from the start of the game I always wondered [sp] who was dead in the chair in the lighthouse... [/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]The lighthouse keeper. There's a note to him from Comstock telling him not to let Booker through. The Luteces kill him because in the variable of whether or not he's alive or dead, Booker can only get to Columbia if the keeper is dead.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Rusty100;40194976][sp]The lighthouse keeper. There's a note to him from Comstock telling him not to let Booker through. The Luteces kill him because in the variable of whether or not he's alive or dead, Booker can only get to Columbia if the keeper is dead.[/sp][/QUOTE]
I think that [sp]they really did it. I mean, the combination used on the lighthouse to 'ascend' was 122, and the coin ends Heads 122 times, so I guess they killed the guy 122 times[/sp]
i guess what i'm saying is [sp]how is it possible to actually isolate every single instance in which booker chooses the baptism, it doesn't really make sense.
2. another critical issue i have that is sort of unresolved is the fact that killing booker in the first place actually solves anything - how is it that by entering one universe booker gets the role of the individual in that universe? the luteces are the same person from multiple universes - when they join together in the same universe they don't assimilate into one another. when booker enters comstocks universe they don't assimilate into one another. why is it that a booker - from the future no less - has the ability to go back into the past assimilate and "become" the booker of the past, and eliminate every one of his copies? i would understand if they went back and they killed another booker and by extension he faded away, but why does his death have any effect?[/sp]
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