Starcraft 2 HOTS v1 Megathread - Kerrigan is coming (USE SPOILERS TILL 28.3.2013) - Games

[QUOTE=Quantuam VTX;39989824]What? Wol openers still work perfectly, and the void ray all in im talking about is the one Artosis used on his stream almost every PvP. he hasnt lost with it once, which is why im suggesting it. I mean, if you really want to play macro PvP , its usually archon/ht/zlot/stalker vs mass voidray with some ground support. PvT, Im right, i can do nexus first openers and get away with it still, esp on whirlwind. You just gotta play hella great to not die to fast mine openers. PvZ is very much the same, with one factor switched, protoss lategame deathball is now unbeatable. So your best option is to do some 2base timing and recall if it doesn't kill him/snipe his third. Into taking your own third/4th when possible and massing your death army. Or open 2stargate off 2base and take a third +templar + gates + charge. and defend with voidray/ht/archon/chargelot.[/QUOTE] Calm down buddy I was just joking. I was just going to put builds with more detail

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/b8qptNu.jpg[/IMG]

What I do as someone that mains toss is: PvT: 1 gate expand(unless you scout something cheesey which is a whole diffrent post), into either 6 gate collosis, and take a third or you can go fast templar, which is not recommended atm because the fast medivacs can make it even harder to hold off early drop aggression. From there make your "imba deathball" and make a lot of zealots, colosis, templar archons, senterys, and a few stalkers. A lot of terrans have been going mech vs toss now because they have something to do aoe, (hellbat). If they do that just mass immortals zealots and archons. Also make upgrades they are good. PvZ: FFE is the best still (or nexus first if you wana get fancy), and from there you can go into multiple routes. Air pressure is coming back into style with the oracle, and mixing in pheonix can make it even more deadly. I personally do a FFE into a 4 gate +1 attack pressure with the momma core. The momma core slows down the lings and can make the zealots even better vs what the zerg has early game. Late game I do normal shit like zealot stalker colosiss sentry and templar and I slowly add my air tech, first voidrays then slowly trade supply for tempest. The end game army you want is tempest voidray templar. PvP: At the moment this matchup is really confusing. The build I do is 3 gate robo, make a decent amount of zlots and sentrys with a couple of stalkers and push at 2 immortals. This build ussualy does really well against fast gateway expands (3gate expand, 2 gate expand etc) And they can be good vs stargate openers(forgot to mention make a momma core and leave it beind to hold off any air pressure) that have pheonix. You can also do air openers because they are pretty good with the oracle. Late game is either mass air vs mass air, or colosis wars. I ussualy try and end it before it gets that far but thats just me.

[QUOTE=SystemGS;39990964]what's the build order for that void-ray allin?[/QUOTE] build void rays, attack.

[QUOTE=Kirrimir;39994021]build void rays, attack.[/QUOTE] haha wow i would have never guessed!!! [editline]21st March 2013[/editline] protip: wonwonwon build is even more potent with forcefield/time warp combo

People should just do Cruncher style as protoss on ladder. You literally can't lose unless your opponent is a lot better or you're in high masters.

Made it into top 25 gold beating protoss FFE and early zealot harass. God damn that was some fun stuff but tense. [editline]21st March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Alexander.;39992163]What I do as someone that mains toss is: PvT: 1 gate expand(unless you scout something cheesey which is a whole diffrent post), into either 6 gate collosis, and take a third or you can go fast templar, which is not recommended atm because the fast medivacs can make it even harder to hold off early drop aggression. From there make your "imba deathball" and make a lot of zealots, colosis, templar archons, senterys, and a few stalkers. A lot of terrans have been going mech vs toss now because they have something to do aoe, (hellbat). If they do that just mass immortals zealots and archons. Also make upgrades they are good. PvZ: FFE is the best still (or nexus first if you wana get fancy), and from there you can go into multiple routes. Air pressure is coming back into style with the oracle, and mixing in pheonix can make it even more deadly. I personally do a FFE into a 4 gate +1 attack pressure with the momma core. The momma core slows down the lings and can make the zealots even better vs what the zerg has early game. Late game I do normal shit like zealot stalker colosiss sentry and templar and I slowly add my air tech, first voidrays then slowly trade supply for tempest. The end game army you want is tempest voidray templar. PvP: At the moment this matchup is really confusing. The build I do is 3 gate robo, make a decent amount of zlots and sentrys with a couple of stalkers and push at 2 immortals. This build ussualy does really well against fast gateway expands (3gate expand, 2 gate expand etc) And they can be good vs stargate openers(forgot to mention make a momma core and leave it beind to hold off any air pressure) that have pheonix. You can also do air openers because they are pretty good with the oracle. Late game is either mass air vs mass air, or colosis wars. I ussualy try and end it before it gets that far but thats just me.[/QUOTE] What do good zerg players do against both an FFE and early zealot/mothership aggression? I can do one, but not both

[QUOTE=Kendra;39995086]People should just do Cruncher style as protoss on ladder. You literally can't lose unless your opponent is a lot better or you're in high masters.[/QUOTE] cruncher style?

[QUOTE=Kendra;39995086]People should just do Cruncher style as protoss on ladder. You literally can't lose unless your opponent is a lot better or you're in high masters.[/QUOTE] Cruncher style?

The best style there is.

Immortal Sentry allin too strong plz nerf.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;39995203]Made it into top 25 gold beating protoss FFE and early zealot harass. God damn that was some fun stuff but tense. [editline]21st March 2013[/editline] What do good zerg players do against both an FFE and early zealot/mothership aggression? I can do one, but not both[/QUOTE] Well to counter it, you have to have good map control and have your roaches out. It is best to flank and try and kill the re-enforcement pylon so they cant spawn in more zealots. If you feel like you cant hold the attack put down 1-2 spines.

What are some Protoss cheese builds in HoTs.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39996514]What are some Protoss cheese builds in HoTs.[/QUOTE] The same as before. Except now they transition into Oracles.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39996514]What are some Protoss cheese builds in HoTs.[/QUOTE] dt rush can be pretty potent in any matchup if you play it right (reduced dark shrine cost ftw) same goes for oracle cheese

YAAAAAAAAAY back into diamond in HOTS :)

[QUOTE=Naught;39995820]cruncher style?[/QUOTE] 2 base turtle with colossus/blink/sentry/void ray into a move. No skill required, will get you into Ro8 TSL3.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/x1ss4g8.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/MInA33n.jpg[/IMG] Already spotted Sting and CranK, haven't seen ForGG yet! Snute, Ret, TLO are here too but no sign of them. :D

[QUOTE=Kendra;39997851]2 base turtle with colossus/blink/sentry/void ray into a move. No skill required, will get you into Ro8 TSL3.[/QUOTE] If that is still effective that is awful, I think I was doing that two years ago when I played Protoss until I realized I was terrible. Wait wasn't the TSL where Cruncher did that almost exactly 2 years and a month ago?

[url]http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/ESETUKMasters[/url] Starts in like 10 minutes hue

[img]http://i.imgur.com/4KrfsWj.gif[/img] widow mines are not as bad as i originally though!

widow mines are the most ridiculous unit to completely wreck zerg. it's bullshit

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;40002853]widow mines are the most ridiculous unit to completely wreck zerg. it's bullshit[/QUOTE] Not if the Zerg are more aware of their surroundings and don't just [A-Click] to their opponents base.

[QUOTE=Jurikuer;40002987]Not if the Zerg are more aware of their surroundings and don't just [A-Click] to their opponents base.[/QUOTE] he dropped one in his mineral line, defeated his whole defense. please tell me what you do there to avoid that whole sale and not get fucked please tell me how you deal with trying to assualt a walled in terran with banes or lings, you run a few lings ahead of banes to kite the widow mines, but they still get them cause there's more widow mines than can be dealt with due to how cheap they are i really don't get how people tell me they're totally balanced like seriously, even when I fucking micro lings around widows, it doesn't help. they also couterract zergs strong suit, map awareness by being able to wreck overlords.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;40003043]he dropped one in his mineral line, defeated his whole defense. please tell me what you do there to avoid that whole sale and not get fucked please tell me how you deal with trying to assualt a walled in terran with banes or lings, you run a few lings ahead of banes to kite the widow mines, but they still get them cause there's more widow mines than can be dealt with due to how cheap they are i really don't get how people tell me they're totally balanced[/QUOTE] You must absolutely suck if you can't think of a way to counter something as widows mines. For one, if you don't want a drop in your mineral line, don't let a drop get to your mineral line. Two, can't see the widow mine? Overseers and Spore Crawlers tend to do something called detect. And three. If you know there is a widow mine, don't just run up into it like a moron. Make it waste a shot on one useless ling and then take it out. It has a 40 second cooldown, I'm sure that's plenty of time to kill it off. Just because you personally can't counter it, doesn't mean it's imba.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;40003043]he dropped one in his mineral line, defeated his whole defense. please tell me what you do there to avoid that whole sale and not get fucked please tell me how you deal with trying to assualt a walled in terran with banes or lings, you run a few lings ahead of banes to kite the widow mines, but they still get them cause there's more widow mines than can be dealt with due to how cheap they are i really don't get how people tell me they're totally balanced like seriously, even when I fucking micro lings around widows, it doesn't help. they also couterract zergs strong suit, map awareness by being able to wreck overlords.[/QUOTE] there are a lot of ways to avoid widow mines pull your drones, get an overseer out (or better yet, drop a spore in your line), throw a ling to it and kill it also life did a pretty cool trick against flash where he microed one ling ahead and got it targeted, then ran the rest of his lings past as it tried to retarget you just have to play intelligently

[QUOTE=Jurikuer;40003083]You must absolutely suck if you can't think of a way to counter something as widows mines. For one, if you don't want a drop in your mineral line, don't let a drop get to your mineral line. Two, can't see the widow mine? Overseers and Spore Crawlers tend to do something called detect. And three. If you know there is a widow mine, don't just run up into it like a moron. Make it waste a shot on one useless ling and then take it out. It has a 40 second cooldown, I'm sure that's plenty of time to kill it off. Just because you personally can't counter it, doesn't mean it's imba.[/QUOTE] I've defended my mineral lines with spore colonies, two pronged drops generally get through either way. I must "suck" something terrible then. I use spore crawlers. I use overseers. They target air. So scouting with my overlords becomes a scary thing, even if they're evolved to overseers. I use a SINGLE ling to run out in front of a group of units. it's not enough with 4-5 widows plus tanks. They have splash and can wreck mutas in groups while just passing over head. [editline]22nd March 2013[/editline] i mean lets not even mention that it's a better unit for what it does than anything zerg has, it's a super powered baneling that doesn't die in one shot

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;40003199]I've defended my mineral lines with spore colonies, two pronged drops generally get through either way. I must "suck" something terrible then. I use spore crawlers. I use overseers. They target air. So scouting with my overlords becomes a scary thing, even if they're evolved to overseers. I use a SINGLE ling to run out in front of a group of units. it's not enough with 4-5 widows plus tanks. They have splash and can wreck mutas in groups while just passing over head.[/QUOTE] You don't use Vipers do you. Ranged attacks become useless. Scout out a widow mine patch, use Blinding cloud on that patch and it will buy you 14 seconds of Widow Mine free harassment. Also renders Seige Tanks useless.

[QUOTE=Jurikuer;40003270]You don't use Vipers do you. Ranged attacks become useless. Scout out a widow mine patch, use Blinding cloud on that patch and it will buy you 14 seconds of Widow Mine free harassment. Also renders Seige Tanks useless.[/QUOTE] I try to, they're not the easiest unit to get used to or keep alive considering it becomes "focus the viper" the second a decent player sees it.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;40003320]I try to, they're not the easiest unit to get used to or keep alive considering it becomes "focus the viper" the second a decent player sees it.[/QUOTE] Look, it's clear that there are some balance issues that need to be worked out. Personally I feel that the drilling claws should be removed permanently, but the unit itself is very easy to counter and avoid. You're right, it's a baneling that doesn't die. But it doesn't move either. If someone had a 200/200 army of Widow Mines, they are easily countered by simply bypassing them entirely. Protoss have observers which remain cloaked, Terran have Scanner Sweep which can't be shot down, and Zerg have Overlords/Overseers which if you're careful can spot the widow mines and escape before they are shot down. You then use Blinding Cloud on the mines and move your army in.