Mass Effect Megathread: I should *go*. *I* should go. I *should* go. - Games

So I was playing ME2 when this happened: [t]http://i.imgur.com/EZiK1ow.jpg[/t] I had no idea Kasumi had some Octo-camo in her possession.

Okay, I'm only here briefly to share this with you, seemed interesting, though I have yet to play ME3 (or all of ME2 for that matter) so I didn't understand any of it (there may be some spoilers, I genuinely don't know). Don't know if you've seen it or not: [URL="http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2013/03/Mass-Effect-3-infographic-565x1024.jpg"]I was going to embed the image but then I realised that if there were spoilers it wouldn't be so nice.[/URL] I was surprised so many people played Paragon. I genuinely thought most people tended to play games down the evil path.

[QUOTE=Estolle93;40041862]So I was playing ME2 when this happened: [t]http://i.imgur.com/EZiK1ow.jpg[/t] I had no idea Kasumi had some Octo-camo in her possession.[/QUOTE] Look at her from a different angle and her invisibility is useless.

So I just fired up ME3 again after putting off playing the Citadel DLC for so long. Oh God, that bit with Traynor and T'Suza was golden, even better if you choose the renegade response.

The Citadel DLC remembered that renegade is more fun when it's not all about shooting your friends.

Nearly all the renegade responses in the Citadel DLC were amazing, also when you [sp]get locked in the vault with Wrex in your squad was priceless.[/sp]

[QUOTE=gerbe1;40042477]Okay, I'm only here briefly to share this with you, seemed interesting, though I have yet to play ME3 (or all of ME2 for that matter) so I didn't understand any of it (there may be some spoilers, I genuinely don't know). Don't know if you've seen it or not: [URL="http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2013/03/Mass-Effect-3-infographic-565x1024.jpg"]I was going to embed the image but then I realised that if there were spoilers it wouldn't be so nice.[/URL] I was surprised so many people played Paragon. I genuinely thought most people tended to play games down the evil path.[/QUOTE] There is no "good" or "evil" path in ME. All of the paths are good. Shepard is a guy looking to save the universe no matter what path you're taking. The difference between the two is in philosophies. Paragon Shepard is all about "Let's save these lives now even if it means endangering a future mission, we'll find a way to work around it." Renegade is, "We can't risk endangering the mission for a few lives, not when trillions are at stake." Of course in the context of a video game, paragon seems like the "good" path. Because you know as a player that you won't be fucked over by any of your decisions, you can "win" regardless. But in realistic scenarios, paragon is extremely naive and short-sighted. There isn't a single famous successful leader who wasn't willing to sacrifice the few to save the many, paragon Shepard is this naive guy who thinks you can win while saving everyone and their mother. Yeah, it's a game, so you know you can, but if it weren't a game, paragon Shep would fail.

[QUOTE=Shovelpass;40044901]There is no "good" or "evil" path in ME. All of the paths are good. Shepard is a guy looking to save the universe no matter what path you're taking. The difference between the two is in philosophies. Paragon Shepard is all about "Let's save these lives now even if it means endangering a future mission, we'll find a way to work around it." Renegade is, "We can't risk endangering the mission for a few lives, not when trillions are at stake." Of course in the context of a video game, paragon seems like the "good" path. Because you know as a player that you won't be fucked over by any of your decisions, you can "win" regardless. But in realistic scenarios, paragon is extremely naive and short-sighted. There isn't a single famous successful leader who wasn't willing to sacrifice the few to save the many, paragon Shepard is this naive guy who thinks you can win while saving everyone and their mother. Yeah, it's a game, so you know you can, but if it weren't a game, paragon Shep would fail.[/QUOTE] Ah. So wait. I've been playing this game all wrong. I play it like I'm the commander person who's in charge so I choose options that can sometimes be chummy but for the most part it's strictly business and I kept getting renegade points and being mad about it. So then renegade is not actually bad, in fact in some cases it is better than paragon? I just thought they didn't understand the words when I was playing and I choose logical decisions (just playing my character) and I get renegade when to me it indicated nothing evil. That's crap. The dictionary definition of renegade indicates to me something inherently pure evil. The dictionary definition of paragon indicates to me something almost angelic. So when I get renegade points I'm thinking it's worse than just "evil" and when I get paragon I take it as being more than just "good." They should have chosen words to indicate that with more clarity. Harumph.

[QUOTE=Shovelpass;40044901]There is no "good" or "evil" path in ME. All of the paths are good. Shepard is a guy looking to save the universe no matter what path you're taking. The difference between the two is in philosophies. Paragon Shepard is all about "Let's save these lives now even if it means endangering a future mission, we'll find a way to work around it." Renegade is, "We can't risk endangering the mission for a few lives, not when trillions are at stake." Of course in the context of a video game, paragon seems like the "good" path. Because you know as a player that you won't be fucked over by any of your decisions, you can "win" regardless. But in realistic scenarios, paragon is extremely naive and short-sighted. There isn't a single famous successful leader who wasn't willing to sacrifice the few to save the many, paragon Shepard is this naive guy who thinks you can win while saving everyone and their mother. Yeah, it's a game, so you know you can, but if it weren't a game, paragon Shep would fail.[/QUOTE] Bioware tend to pick and choose to make paragon "good" regardless though. Small example: In me2, there's that elcor on omega who's pressuring some quarian. You can resolve the situation with charm or intimidate. "Charm" says something like "back off the quarian or I'll break your legs". That's fucking intimidation by definition, but it's charm because it's the "good" thing to do. That's not always going to be the case, but the games are too inconsistent.

Define "charm" in ME2, I thought charm only existed in ME1. I can still even bring up two situations I loved in ME1 because you were given a moral issue and you could proceed about in either direction of the issue with charm or intimidation. Come ME2 Paragon and Renegade are set moralities as opposed to styles.

[QUOTE=Tureis;40045044]Define "charm" in ME2, I thought charm only existed in ME1. I can still even bring up two situations I loved in ME1 because you were given a moral issue and you could proceed about in either direction of the issue with charm or intimidation. Come ME2 Paragon and Renegade are set moralities as opposed to styles.[/QUOTE] He means charm as in a blue dialogue option, basically the things opened up by having a high enough paragon/renegade score.

I figured which, but I never considered that charm past ME1 simply because half the time those actions are in no way diplomatic.

They should have had renegade and paragon as authoritative and liberal or something along those lines. Or General and Drafted or something I dunno. But Paragon and Renegade were the wrong words.

Even then it's still incorrect. I'll now cite the example of a man asking for his wife's remains in Mass Effect, the reason they're being withheld is in order for the Alliance to study them to help combat attacks similar to the ones that happened to her. You as the player are given to option to either help him get the remains back, or actually support the experiments. There is no set renegade = support the experiments or paragon = get remains back. You as the player are the one who makes the choice, and you can use the charm or intimidate for either side.

[QUOTE=Tureis;40045162]Even then it's still incorrect. I'll now cite the example of a man asking for his wife's remains in Mass Effect, the reason they're being withheld is in order for the Alliance to study them to help combat attacks similar to the ones that happened to her. You as the player are given to option to either help him get the remains back, or actually support the experiments. There is no set renegade = support the experiments or paragon = get remains back. You as the player are the one who makes the choice, and you can use the charm or intimidate for either side.[/QUOTE] Paragon and Renegade only tend to show different alignments in major decisions, like saving the rachni or destroying the collector base. Other that that it's just used as a "how do you want to get this done" option.

[QUOTE=mikester112;40044236]Nearly all the renegade responses in the Citadel DLC were amazing, also when you [sp]get locked in the vault with Wrex in your squad was priceless.[/sp][/QUOTE] It's even better if you take Wrex and Javik. If you take all of the "I will end you painfully" renegade interrupts, Shepard says [sp]"I'm gonna mount your head in the CIC. And I'm gonna mount his head next to it. Then I'm gonna blow them both out the airlock!"[/sp] If Javik is there, he turns to Shepard and says [sp]"Finally."[/sp]

[t]http://i.imgur.com/P1LAzKq.jpg[/t] f*cking hate such teams. They started to die after wave 5 in the beginning of each round and didnt even try to use medi-gel. So i was basically soloing gold with 3 men down. gaah, i wasnt so angry after playing gold.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;40045200]Paragon and Renegade only tend to show different alignments in major decisions, like saving the rachni or destroying the collector base. Other that that it's just used as a "how do you want to get this done" option.[/QUOTE] I'd argue it generally isn't used as that though throughout Mass Effect, especially past one. Consider Mordin's mission in ME2, the paragon option is to yell at him calling him a terrible murderer, the renegade was to out right support what he did earlier (even though he himself is against it obviously) and the middle was just complete and utter apathy.

Hey guys, i know that Legion said he was created after the destruction of Sovereign but Rannoch got me thinking. [sp]I think the various units that make up Legion, or his main program were the first of the Geth. A lot of the consensus flashback seem to be of the same unit and when Shep comments that the rifle looked like Legions he responded with: "It is...a reliable model." Possibly referring to it's age?[/sp] I could be over thinking this or you could all already think this but it's just a thought of mine.

Even then, none of those choices have anything to do about "how you want to get this done". It's entirely ethical dialogue. Mah automerge.

[QUOTE=cagoBHuK;40045209][t]http://i.imgur.com/P1LAzKq.jpg[/t] f*cking hate such teams. They started to die after wave 5 in the beginning of each round and didnt even try to use medi-gel. So i was basically soloing gold with 3 men down. gaah, i wasnt so angry after playing gold.[/QUOTE] Tell me you were an N7 Shadow. I carried our team just now, and we completed it, I killed the Geth Prime, wooshed in the evac zone with a few seconds remaining, one hit two Pyros and started reviving the only other guy who was still alive at the last second, but was 0.001 seconds too late, the clock hit 0. So I got Lone Survivor. Afterwards they kicked me out of the game. Don't know what that was about. Maybe don't sit in the extraction point and wait to be overrun next time, I'll enjoy my 10 revive award, though. The entire game, two of them sat at the starting area behind the ship and sniped while me and a Flamer Sentinel completed everything

[QUOTE=jackattack;40045240]Hey guys, i know that Legion said he was created after the destruction of Sovereign but Rannoch got me thinking. [sp]I think the various units that make up Legion, or his main program were the first of the Geth. A lot of the consensus flashback seem to be of the same unit and when Shep comments that the rifle looked like Legions he responded with: "It is...a reliable model." Possibly referring to it's age?[/sp] I could be over thinking this or you could all already think this but it's just a thought of mine.[/QUOTE] Since Legion is literally the geth, it doesn't imply that he was around during the war so much as it implies that the geth have, or are developing, some form of emotion. Of course, the Widow is a damn good rifle so it could be that he is telling the truth.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;40042501]It's because there's practically no middle ground when it comes to the "moral" decisions, you're either Space Jesus or Mecha-Hitler, and no one wants to be Hitler.[/QUOTE] [U]Mass Effect 1:[/U] Renegade Shep has hard decisions to make but must be cold, decisive and effective in their choices. If-the-end-justifies-the-means-shep. [U]Mass Effect 2:[/U] Renegade shep wins the dick of the year award. [U]Mass Effect 3:[/U] Renegade commits mass murder, [sp]genicide, kills legion, wrex, tali and mordin[/sp] and [sp]probably romanced Ashley[/sp] So in conclusion wow that really escalated fast.

[QUOTE=gerbe1;40045006]Ah. So wait. I've been playing this game all wrong. I play it like I'm the commander person who's in charge so I choose options that can sometimes be chummy but for the most part it's strictly business and I kept getting renegade points and being mad about it. So then renegade is not actually bad, in fact in some cases it is better than paragon? I just thought they didn't understand the words when I was playing and I choose logical decisions (just playing my character) and I get renegade when to me it indicated nothing evil. That's crap. The dictionary definition of renegade indicates to me something inherently pure evil. The dictionary definition of paragon indicates to me something almost angelic. So when I get renegade points I'm thinking it's worse than just "evil" and when I get paragon I take it as being more than just "good." They should have chosen words to indicate that with more clarity. Harumph.[/QUOTE] Renegades aren't pure evil even if you look at the definition of it in the dictionary. The "most true" way to play the game is to base each choice on your own decisions, which would likely put you with a mix of paragon and renegade, with a bias twoards paragon. Hardly any rational person is ever going to be fully paragon or fully renegade, and it would actually be nice if Bioware had made it so full paragon/full renegade had more (negative, but interesting) conciquences to it. Pure renegade is more or less "You are a jerk and a dirty cop, but dirty cops get the job done in the end". Paragons would be more concerned about their image to others and would more likely try their hardest to save a few people even if it means things might be more sketchy for the whole. The only thing having high paragon/renegade specifically does is open up more "intervention" opportunities I think, where they let you make a quick choice in a cutscene to do a paragon/renegade action to resolve a situation. If you aren't a "high enough" paragon/renegade your character won't be able to make those polarizing choices to end conflict. (it's either that or the red/blue chat options on the dialog wheel that depend on your paragon/renegade reputation levels). [editline]26th March 2013[/editline] Also, should I get the citadel DLC before I beat the game? Everyone says its good. I really don't want to spend $15 on it though. But if it's something where I'd be really missing out on the core experience if I didn't buy the citadel DLC then I might consider getting it.

The problem with paragon and renegade is that it categorizes your actions in areas of morality so it's inherently makes the player want to choose the "good" one because all people consider themselves "good". I mean it isn't helped when you have a physical association of evil in ME2 with the fucking scars and red eyes or anything either.

The problem I suppose I was trying to convey is that I was always upset in ME1 when I got renegade points and happy when I got paragon. I chose choices that fit how I wanted to play the game (so what I would do in that situation because that is how I played it) but when I got the renegade points it was for things like getting mad at people for being too cosy with a commanding officer. That is the opposite of renegade in my mind. Like I'd choose something and it'd come up renegade and I'd be like "how is that renegade you stupid game?" Maybe it's because I'm used to Never Winter Nights, Fallout 3 and SW:KOTOR morality systems. But even the way you describe it as "dirty cop" is not how some of the choices I chose worked. It seems to me they definitely had a wide berth for interpreting where the decisions sat. Maybe that makes it feel more organic though. ME1 however is ultimately one of my all time favourite story based games, so this is probably [I]the only[/I] criticism I have of it. I need to finish ME2 and start playing ME3.

[QUOTE=KorJax;40045662] [editline]26th March 2013[/editline] Also, should I get the citadel DLC before I beat the game? Everyone says its good. I really don't want to spend $15 on it though. But if it's something where I'd be really missing out on the core experience if I didn't buy the citadel DLC then I might consider getting it.[/QUOTE] Yes. For reference, ME3 was so bad for me that I could hardly get into the first two games anymore. I got the Citadel DLC and it made me feel good enough about the series that I'm doing a full playthrough right now.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;40046385]I'd say both paths are dumb, renegade Shepard needlessly kills people for the hell of it and is a massive douchebag that regularly botches anything involving diplomacy. Also, if you take the renegade path during the Samara loyalty mission you end up getting killed by alien sex from Morinth and/or releasing a mass murder into public, that sounds pretty naive to me.[/QUOTE] You can do that mission with the renegade outcome without trying to fuck morinth.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;40046416]But you still let her go free so basically you just killed a countless number of people.[/QUOTE] ME3 wraps up that bit when it's busy defining the phrase "lack of effort".

[QUOTE=TheTalon;40045355]Tell me you were an N7 Shadow. I carried our team just now, and we completed it, I killed the Geth Prime, wooshed in the evac zone with a few seconds remaining, one hit two Pyros and started reviving the only other guy who was still alive at the last second, but was 0.001 seconds too late, the clock hit 0. So I got Lone Survivor. Afterwards they kicked me out of the game. Don't know what that was about. Maybe don't sit in the extraction point and wait to be overrun next time, I'll enjoy my 10 revive award, though. The entire game, two of them sat at the starting area behind the ship and sniped while me and a Flamer Sentinel completed everything[/QUOTE] N7 Shadow doesnt get biotic medals. I was an asari huntress. Still, playing as N7 Shadow without melee damage bonus (like Strength Enhancer) on gold is hard. Silver is okay, you can kill almost every usual enemy with one Shadow Strike or heavy melee, but on gold - no. As far as i know, if at least 1 squad member is extracted, everyone is getting +1 extraction for character they play. Noticed it several times.