Centration - The paranoid, toolbox smashing and monkey throwing space station simulator - Games

[img]http://niggaupload.com/images/tiuJw.png[/img] i'm a firm believer of Kopimism and information wants to be free

[QUOTE=Dead snipe;37334066][img]http://niggaupload.com/images/tiuJw.png[/img] i'm a firm believer of Kopimism and information wants to be free[/QUOTE] I'm okay with this. But can we stop, though? Seriously? EDIT: Thanks.

[QUOTE=bunnyspy1;37333888]x-com wasn't free[/QUOTE] The fact that SS13 is free still doesn't give to the people who contributed to SS13 some sort ownership over the gameplay mechanics or themes that SS13 uses. Imply they do is simply insanity. Also, when are you going to address the fact that: A. They're using the Unreal Engine 3; B. The game is played in a first person perspective; C. They will have to completely rethink how the user will interact with the environment and other players because of the last 2 points. D. They will LITERALLY not use ANY assets from SS13 and have to create their own FROM SCRATCH. Plagiarism is when you take assets from one game and reuse them DIRECTLY in another game (Ex: Reusing models, reusing textures, reusing lines of dialogue etc) without permission (See TF2 versus Final Combat). Since they're using a completely different engine it's LITERALLY impossible for them to reuse assets from SS13 unless for some inexplicable reason they used the sprites. Borrowing mechanics and themes is NOT plagiarism. It's NORMAL and is done ALL THE FREAKING TIME in the games industry. Seriously, Medal of Honor (2010) according do your definition plagiarized Call of Duty 4: Same themes, same freaking gameplay mechanics, yet while some people may even call MOH a Cod clone, nobody ever claimed either game plagiarized anything. Claiming SS13 was plagiarized by Centration is complete, pure and unfiltered insanity. Heck, that's even regardless of wether Centration will be a stellar game or a complete piece of garbage. Edit: Apparently the shitstorm stopped, so whatever.

[QUOTE=Dead snipe;37334066][img]http://niggaupload.com/images/tiuJw.png[/img] i'm a firm believer of Kopimism and information wants to be free[/QUOTE] Wait, are you really arguing that the game ought to be free, because we took inspiration from other games? Sure, Centration looks pretty similar on the surface, but it's more or less intended to be a modern evolution of the genre of games like SS13. We're not the first to take inspiration, and we won't be the last. We simply hope to create it in such a way that both simultaneously venerates the original and innovates on the initial idea. Were we trying to distance ourselves from the SS13 community, you might have a point, but the thing is, we've really been trying to use what little marketing we've managed so far to simultaneously give traffic to SS13 as a whole, as well as to our project. The thing is, we WANT the genre to become more popular, and not just with our project. We want to see people getting into the idea of deep space survival roleplay, and using the genre with as much recognition as they would 'survival horror'. We're not going to be blackballing the existing SS13-like projects because they will compete with ours. On the contrary, I can't help but feel that our projects will share a similar niche with a slightly different core of players. As such, introduction to the genre rather than our project alone benefits both projects rather than just one or the other. Hell, Ex based his work on Gughunter's Space Tug, who in turn based his work off of the alien franchise. Ex merely didn't advertise Space Tug as an inspiration. If anything, we're leading by a better example by trying to give linkback traffic to the SS13 community.

[QUOTE=hayoye111;37334154]The fact that SS13 is free still doesn't give to the people who contributed to SS13 some sort ownership over the gameplay mechanics or themes that SS13 uses. Imply they do is simply insanity. Also, when are you going to address the fact that: A. They're using the Unreal Engine 3; B. The game is played in a first person perspective; C. They will have to completely rethink how the user will interact with the environment and other players because of the last 2 points. D. They will LITERALLY not use ANY assets from SS13 and have to create their own FROM SCRATCH. Plagiarism is when you take assets from one game and reuse them DIRECTLY in another game (Ex: Reusing models, reusing textures, reusing lines of dialogue etc) without permission. Since they're using a completely different engine it's LITERALLY impossible for them to reuse assets from SS13 unless for some inexplicable reason they used the sprites. Borrowing mechanics and themes is NOT plagiarism. It's NORMAL and is done ALL THE FREAKING TIME in the game industries. Seriously, Medal of Honor (2010) according do your definition plagiarized Call of Duty 4: Same themes, same freaking gameplay mechanics, yet while some people may even call MOH a Cod clone, nobody ever claimed either game plagiarized anything. Claiming SS13 was plagiarized by Centration is complete, pure and unfiltered insanity. Heck, that even regardless of wether Centration will be a stellar game or a complete piece of garbage.[/QUOTE] Not to mention the fact that our features that seem to 'replicate' those of SS13 are actually designed completely differnt. Just because we have an atmospheric system that means you need to breathe while on a space station, and that will also suck you out of breaches using explosive decompression, all of a sudden we're ripping off a feature from SS13 - even though any sort of atmospherics system in a game based in space obviously needs those features. Who invented the wheel? Should we not have improved the wheel and sell it? That happened. Taking something, improving it, and selling it, is something that businesses do every day, and have done for literally hundreds of years. If I make a meat pie and sell it, and then someone else makes a better meat pie because he realised something I should have done instead, does that automatically make him a terrible person? No, it makes him a clever person. We're taking something we dreamed up to be an awesome idea, features that, if compared to SS13's, are huge improvements, along with other features and game-play mechanics, and we're improving them. The only reason we are even CONSIDERING charging for it is so we can keep the servers operational and keep working on the game, to release additional content regularly - or would you rather we just make a crap game, give it away and then disappear entirely? C'mon folks, THINK! EDIT: So should I cancel my plans for "Inspired by SS13" from the game credits, then?

If you see someone handing out free meat pie, and you then sell superior meat pie in front of said meat pie vendor, you're a gigantic cunt here's a tip instead of making it hosted on a dedicated server listen closely give it out for people to host this would be a magic way to remove your expenses!

holy shit drama without end, can't we get back to hyping or coming up with creative yet brutal ways to murder eachother?

[QUOTE=Dead snipe;37334318]If you see someone handing out free meat pie, and you then sell superior meat pie in front of said meat pie vendor, you're a gigantic cunt here's a tip instead of making it hosted on a dedicated server listen closely give it out for people to host this would be a magic way to remove your expenses![/QUOTE] People will be able to host their own servers - we're not talking about game servers. Do you actually understand the amount of effort and work that needs to go into a multiplayer game? There needs to be an authentication server, to handle player authentication, secured with software that costs money, to protect their data. Then, there needs to be a listener and server listings server, which handles which servers are public and hosted, and lists them for players to be able to find them. THEN, there is the stats server. One of the key things we're hoping to accomplish is persistent stats for characters, which means we need a place to store this securely so they're not messed with by players. That's three servers with fairly high traffic already, not to mention providing official servers for players to play on so they don't join servers where there are silly rules and bad admins. EDIT: We're not trying to take players away from SS13 - in fact our community is going to host nostalgic SS13 events quite often, and we're going to encourage people to play SS13, as well as the remake currently under-way by the goons.

unoriginal or not i don't see a 3d SS13 in the works and I'd happily pay for one all of my experiences with SS13 have been fantastic and i don't see what the bitching is about, but then again people are retarded (its a space station sandbox game that people fight to survive in. that's all it has in common with SS13 from what i can tell!!!)

[QUOTE=DBFT;37334328]holy shit drama without end, can't we get back to hyping or coming up with creative yet brutal ways to murder eachother?[/QUOTE] Follow someone on the camera network, wait until they enter a room and then seal it off, turn the lights off, and siphon air into the room. Flick the lights on and off a few times for added dramatic effect, and when the pressure in the room is highest, unseal the room - watch hilarity ensure.

ps fuck off koek go back to enema

[QUOTE=noms;37334369]People will be able to host their own servers - we're not talking about game servers. Do you actually understand the amount of effort and work that needs to go into a multiplayer game? There needs to be an authentication server, to handle player authentication, secured with software that costs money, to protect their data. Then, there needs to be a listener and server listings server, which handles which servers are public and hosted, and lists them for players to be able to find them. THEN, there is the stats server. One of the key things we're hoping to accomplish is persistent stats for characters, which means we need a place to store this securely so they're not messed with by players. That's three servers with fairly high traffic already, not to mention providing official servers for players to play on so they don't join servers where there are silly rules and bad admins.[/QUOTE] So by adding persistence into this game, it'll turn into SS13 where a level 1 assistant is fighting a level 48 clown with maxed out ventriloquism. [editline]21st August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=DeeCeeTeeBee;37334393]ps fuck off koek go back to enema[/QUOTE] clubs

[QUOTE=noms;37334369]People will be able to host their own servers - we're not talking about game servers. Do you actually understand the amount of effort and work that needs to go into a multiplayer game? There needs to be an authentication server, to handle player authentication, secured with software that costs money, to protect their data. Then, there needs to be a listener and server listings server, which handles which servers are public and hosted, and lists them for players to be able to find them. THEN, there is the stats server. One of the key things we're hoping to accomplish is persistent stats for characters, which means we need a place to store this securely so they're not messed with by players. That's three servers with fairly high traffic already, not to mention providing official servers for players to play on so they don't join servers where there are silly rules and bad admins.[/QUOTE] you're blowing the cost of server upkeep out of proportions and to add more to this, if you weren't selling it you wouldn't have to host shit at all, assuming that the authentication system changes to something that is in each dedicated server and run by the hosts

[QUOTE=Dead snipe;37334318]If you see someone handing out free meat pie, and you then sell superior meat pie in front of said meat pie vendor, you're a gigantic cunt[/QUOTE] that's life??? if you can provide a superior/sidegrade to something,w hy not cash in on it?? man those fuckers over at dice selling battlefield games in front of those cod fuckers are complete cunts. man those family-run bakeries selling their superior pies in front of that market are fuckheads also considering how far away this thing is to being finished i'd be surprised if dedicated servers weren't available. seriously jesus christ what the fuck is going through your mind right now?? it's very similar enviroment wise, but that's pretty much it. they're not taking the delicious meat pie that is SS13, fixing it up and selling it, they're building practically a completely new game from sweat and the tears of autistic kids on forums. i'd understand your tears if this wasn't 3d or pretty much took everything SS13 has and shoveled it in to a unity game god bless america

[QUOTE=Dead snipe;37334318]If you see someone handing out free meat pie, and you then sell superior meat pie in front of said meat pie vendor, you're a gigantic cunt here's a tip instead of making it hosted on a dedicated server listen closely give it out for people to host this would be a magic way to remove your expenses![/QUOTE] Well, we're not actually hosting a dedicated server. But that's cool that you think that. Because it's possibly the most asinine way to handle anything in UDK. In fact, if you knew anything about UDK, you'd know that basically, large-scale dedi servers are, well, not exactly doable within the architecture. Second, you can still hand out dedi servers for people to host. We are merely commercializing our project because it's already been nine months of concept, research and organizing to even get the alpha under construction. And frankly, being a programmer, I charge $25 an hour for my programming services in the commercial world. Game development takes time, skill, and dedication, and we cannot guarantee a quality product without having some means to pay the artists. I've been donating my time the last year or so because I know that we need to spend our money on artists that can pump out quality work. You see, what you are saying wouldn't be so pointless if you actually understood how much work goes into games. Instead, you adopt this attitude of: "It's so easy. Look at these mods I made in Gmod. Anybody with half a brain can make a game.". I'll tell you what, when you can come up with an airflow solver that doesn't use cellular automata, subdivides 3D space into 100% optimal binary trees, handles pressure, temperature, molar mass and volume, handles A* gas propagation, breach detection, A* decompression pathing, and still manage to make it function over an aging architecture patched together from scraps of 3-generations of poor practices, then we'll talk. Until then, it really is just quite meaningless uninformed justifications as to why the world should bend over backwards to provide you with free stuff.

[QUOTE=Dead snipe;37334415]you're blowing the cost of server upkeep out of proportions and to add more to this, if you weren't selling it you wouldn't have to host shit at all, assuming that the authentication system changes to something that is in each dedicated server and run by the hosts[/QUOTE] Except, yet, as we've identified, Centration isn't an SS13 remake. We've designed it this way, to have persistent stats, to provide the features and services we designed it for. Not to mention that people working on this game need to eat, and people don't work for free. Quality comes with money, as we've seen with many games projects.

[QUOTE=koekje4life V2;37334408] clubs[/QUOTE] dont diss that shit you faggot

[QUOTE=koekje4life V2;37334408]So by adding persistence into this game, it'll turn into SS13 where a level 1 assistant is fighting a level 48 clown with maxed out ventriloquism.[/QUOTE] Heh, that's now how it works. You shouldn't assume features that you don't know all the details about.

[QUOTE=Dead snipe;37334318]If you see someone handing out free meat pie, and you then sell superior meat pie in front of said meat pie vendor, you're a gigantic cunt[/QUOTE] Your talking like people have no agency, and that just because you're selling your meat pie, people somehow[I]must[/I] be compelled to buy it. If I were in that situation, I'd probably eat some of the free pie and if the other pie really looked good, I'd buy some. You're not entitled to the superior pie just because it uses similar ingredients or cooking technique. Thinking you do would be insanity. People have the right to monetize or not their work, and if they don't, it doesn't give them monopoly over the concept and it doesn't stop others from drawing upon it and in turn monetize it. In this analogy, plagiarism would be actually stealing the ingredients or the actual pies from other other guy's home. In this case, the seller draws upon the concept of making pie, but he still has to buy the ingredients and make the pie himself. But for fuck sake, let's stop using analogies that are out of the gaming industry. I hate analogies that are completely unrelated to the subject matter, and it never ends well.

[QUOTE=DeeCeeTeeBee;37334466]that's life??? if you can provide a superior/sidegrade to something,w hy not cash in on it?? man those fuckers over at dice selling battlefield games in front of those cod fuckers are complete cunts. man those family-run bakeries selling their superior pies in front of that market are fuckheads also considering how far away this thing is to being finished i'd be surprised if dedicated servers weren't available. seriously jesus christ what the fuck is going through your mind right now?? it's very similar enviroment wise, but that's pretty much it. they're not taking the delicious meat pie that is SS13, fixing it up and selling it, they're building practically a completely new game from sweat and the tears of autistic kids on forums. i'd understand your tears if this wasn't 3d or pretty much took everything SS13 has and shoveled it in to a unity game god bless america[/QUOTE] i'm so sorry i removed you from my steam friends list :'( persistent stats with SS13 is a terrible idea, or to repeat what you said, your opinion is wrong. the thing with SS13 that was good is that no one had the upper hand over others when it came to round stuff, save for jobs or antagonists.

Wait, an actualy dev is here (Ter13). I should stop talking. Please rate this post as late.

[QUOTE=noms;37334486]Heh, that's now how it works. You shouldn't assume features that you don't know all the details about.[/QUOTE] We've actually spent a great deal of time talking about persistence, and the effects on gameplay balance. Our ethos is that skill is vastly more important than e-numbers, and most of our persistence is going to be at the server host's discretion in order to allow them to more accurately rate and filter players from accessing easy-grief tech. In the end, persistent stat modifiers are going to encourage the sticking with characters, but not overpower people. That way, characters can persist in rating, and we can keep new players out of highly complex job roles, and keep people from remaking characters over and over again in order to grief. We feel like we've balanced our ideas for persistence quite well, but we're going to have to wait for beta before we can call them "perfect". And no, it's not going to be Dragon Ball Z. Player skill is going to matter a lot more than your "power level".

I just love how Dead snipe never directly addresses Ter13.

because he isn't talking out of his ass

[QUOTE=Dead snipe;37334515] persistent stats with SS13 is a terrible idea, or to repeat what you said, your opinion is wrong. the thing with SS13 that was good is that no one had the upper hand over others when it came to round stuff, save for jobs or antagonists.[/QUOTE] Once again, I am forced to remind you that this is indeed Centration, and not SS13. [editline]21st August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Dead snipe;37334564]because he isn't talking out of his ass[/QUOTE] "Uh oh, a clever person has entered the thread, better insult him, I'll look clever then..."

you hooking up on shit like me saying SS13 instead of Centration makes me wonder if you have anything of value to say, you know very well what i meant. [QUOTE=noms;37334584] [editline]21st August 2012[/editline] "Uh oh, a clever person has entered the thread, better insult him, I'll look clever then..."[/QUOTE] better snip that before someone quotes it!

Okay kids, knock it the fuck off, and behave, we all want to talk about something NOT related to this squabble you are having.

[QUOTE=noms;37334584]Once again, I am forced to remind you that this is indeed Centration, and not SS13.[/quote] However, as you've claimed to attempting to "improve the wheel", yet not wanting to copy features already present in a game previously available for free, it seems that a lot of these statements are quite contradictory.

[QUOTE=Sunnday3;37334612]Okay kids, knock it the fuck off, and behave, we all want to talk about something NOT related to this squabble you are having.[/QUOTE] I need an adult. But seriously, this. I'll be around for a little longer to answer any serious questions about Centration, but then I have to actually you know, work on the game.

[QUOTE=noms;37334626] I'll be around to answer questions that are positive towards Centration. [/QUOTE] ftfy