Starcraft II Megathread V.1 'Hell, It's About Time' - Games

[QUOTE=LeonS;24159041]Terran and bronze in all 3, mainly because I don't play so much anymore due to lack of teammates. Does it make a difference if I play Terran because it sure doesn't when I am unbiased. I think all races are just balanaced, sure they all need small fixes here and there but they got nothing major.[/QUOTE] Have you ever tried going up against terran as zerg?

Terran is slightly OP and everyone here who cries about it are babies, because a) it will be fixed and b) it doesn't matter when you're at a level when you can practice for 20 games and then defeat any terran who has yet beat you. [QUOTE=melonmonkey;24159008]Chu has an average of 110 apm while his opponents that I've seen him beat average half of that. It works, but he has to work twice as hard as his enemies. That is an imbalance. He is a good player, the races are not even.[/QUOTE] Yes, because APM is the same thing as player skill.

I will agree with the statement that each race must take the same amount of effort. Otherwise they are not balanced and instead are more of a difficulty setting. -chu- would be considered a high level player simply because he can beat terrans with zerg when zerg require much more attention than terrans do. Blizzard will patch it with a balance fix, but we will have to wait as things like this take time. Remember, they did most of their balance fixing during the beta with a limited number or players in a controlled environment. Now however, the game is released to everyone of varying skill levels and Blizzard must now adjust to these differences. Remember, the first people who got their hands on the game where the SC1 professionals.

[QUOTE=Krepps;24159087]Terran is slightly OP and everyone here who cries about it are babies, because a) it will be fixed and b) it doesn't matter when you're at a level when you can practice for 20 games and then defeat any terran who has yet beat you. Yes, because APM is the same thing as player skill.[/QUOTE] Average apm demonstrates the effort people are putting into the game.

[QUOTE=melonmonkey;24159103]Average apm demonstrates the effort people are putting into the game.[/QUOTE] Effort is not the same as skill.

Zerg are underwhelming because while the Terrans and Protoss got extremely powerful new units, the Zerg force has pretty much stayed the same. Late AA, the inability to defend, and losing their trump card from transitioning from SC1 to SC2 made them a lot weaker.

[QUOTE=Jurikuer;24159100]I will agree with the statement that each race must take the same amount of effort. Otherwise they are not balanced and instead are more of a difficulty setting. -chu- would be considered a high level player simply because he can beat terrans with zerg when zerg require much more attention than terrans do. Blizzard will patch it with a balance fix, but we will have to wait as things like this take time. Remember, they did most of their balance fixing during the beta with a limited number or players in a controlled environment. Now however, the game is released to everyone of varying skill levels and Blizzard must now adjust to these differences. Remember, the first people who got their hands on the game where the SC1 professionals.[/QUOTE] Oh yeah, I know blizzard will fix it. Sc1 wasn't balanced for a long time after it came out. I just want to make sure people understand that an imbalance exists.

[QUOTE=Krepps;24159087]Yes, because APM is the same thing as player skill.[/QUOTE] It is actually. If you can't do a lot of things at once you're going to get pumbled by someone who can.

[QUOTE=Krepps;24159122]Effort is not the same as skill.[/QUOTE] Because -chu-, as a player who beats diamond ranked players, has no skill, right?

[QUOTE=melonmonkey;24159070]Have you ever tried going up against terran as zerg?[/QUOTE] In all honesty, I actually have. Bear with me it was my first time playing zerg and it was in a 3v3 game we lost but we did manage to get all their bases without thinking properly; they had expansions only reachable by air so I tried getting a Nydus worm up with a -shitload- of zerglings in it but eh, didn't go too well when he had a huge army stationed there. I've played protoss around 2 times.

[QUOTE=Jurikuer;24159131]It is actually. If you can't do a lot of things at once you're going to get pumbled by someone who can.[/QUOTE] Yes, and if you can micro but have a shitty strategy, you will lose to someone who can't micro but has a good strategy. An APM of 70 will last anyone into mid diamond.

[QUOTE=LeonS;24159157]In all honesty, I actually have. Bear with me it was my first time playing zerg and it was in a 3v3 game we lost but we did manage to get all their bases without thinking properly; they had expansions only reachable by air so I tried getting a Nydus worm up with a -shitload- of zerglings in it but eh, didn't go too well when he had a huge army stationed there. I've played protoss around 2 times.[/QUOTE] We're not talking about 3v3. You cannot, in any way, judge balance based on a 3v3 game.

[QUOTE=melonmonkey;24159182]We're not talking about 3v3. You cannot, in any way, judge balance based on a 3v3 game.[/QUOTE] So Blizzard just removes balance in games with more than 2 people? Because the "balance" is still there.

sigh, won 3/5 of my placement matches get put into bronze now i get raped every single game..

[QUOTE=LeonS;24159213]So Blizzard just removes balance in games with more than 2 people? Because the "balance" is still there.[/QUOTE] Blizzard actually balances it like this. They make one race the way they feel it should be, and then play it against itself. If it feels balanced they then add a second race to compete with and balance those two races between each other. They then do the same thing for the third race and have it match up against the other two races 1v1 in an attempt to finish balancing them all.

[QUOTE=LeonS;24159213]So Blizzard just removes balance in games with more than 2 people? Because the "balance" is still there.[/QUOTE] Starcraft is balanced for 1v1, team balance is an afterthought.

[QUOTE=LeonS;24159213]So Blizzard just removes balance in games with more than 2 people? Because the "balance" is still there.[/QUOTE] The game gets infinitely more complex because the myriad combinations compliment eachother differently. I need to find a simple way to explain this.... Units scale differently when they are together. It's not a "mathematical" thing so to speak, but a merit of design. 20 zerglings is worth more than twice as much as 10 zerglings because of their surround. 6 Mutalisks are worth more than twice as much as 3 mutalisks. It's not just because of their numbers, it's because of their size and, in the case of the mutas, their bouncing attack. Therefore, balance becomes immensly more complicated because of the way units interact.

[QUOTE=Krepps;24159264]Starcraft is balanced for 1v1, team balance is an afterthought.[/QUOTE] Team balance isn't really much of a thought at all. If all three races are balanced out against each other then team matches shouldn't require any balance at all if any.

The game shouldn't have to be "balanced" to player skill levels just because they can't handle it. I've seen Zerg destroy Terrans who've had less APM than them, it's all about your strategy and execution.

I still don't see how Terran are OP. I find no races OP right now, just that most units on all three sides have some minor fix needed.

[QUOTE=LeonS;24159213]So Blizzard just removes balance in games with more than 2 people? Because the "balance" is still there.[/QUOTE] First of all, the zerg has no Tier 1 AA. In order to get the earliest AA units and structures, you need to first upgrade to a Lair, and then build a hydralisk den. This is completely different from the other two races, where they can just shit out a marine instantly/get a few stalkers once their first tech building is built.

[QUOTE=LeonS;24159324]I still don't see how Terran are OP. I find no races OP right now, just that most units on all three sides have some minor fix needed.[/QUOTE] We've been repeatedly spelling it out for you but you keep saying you don't get it. I'm not sure what it would take to convince you, so I'm just going to stop debating.

Terran has the easiest achieveable AA in the game. You don't need to build anything other than a barracks and you have a viable AA unit. When combined with combat shields and stimpacks, they're pretty much THE best AA unit that isn't flying.

[QUOTE=melonmonkey;24159428]We've been repeatedly spelling it out for you but you keep saying you don't get it. I'm not sure what it would take to convince you, so I'm just going to stop debating.[/QUOTE] Want to know why I don't get it? Because all your claims are untrue.

[QUOTE=FunnyGamer;24159432]Terran has the easiest achieveable AA in the game. You don't need to build anything other than a barracks and you have a viable AA unit. When combined with combat shields and stimpacks, they're pretty much THE best AA unit that isn't flying.[/QUOTE] There should be an upgrade for marines to be able to turn their neck upwards, right?

[QUOTE=LeonS;24159532]Want to know why I don't get it? Because all your claims are untrue.[/QUOTE] I concede, your bronze level expertise absolutely is the best judge of balance. The platinum and gold players who have been defending the imbalance in this debate are completely wrong. You win.

[QUOTE=melonmonkey;24159619]I concede, your bronze level expertise absolutely is the best judge of balance. The platinum and gold players who have been defending the imbalance in this debate are completely wrong. You win.[/QUOTE] You're pathetic, why do I even bother with someone who resorts to sarcasm and insults?

[QUOTE=LeonS;24159532]Want to know why I don't get it? Because all your claims are untrue.[/QUOTE] Terran have really early, really good AA, great anti-armor, the longest range and one of the most powerful ground units in the game, really awesome tier 3 tech, super easy wall-ins, and tailor-made harassment units Zerg, meanwhile, have no anti-armor whatsoever until tier 3

Don't forget the units that heal the bulk of the average terran players army automatically in the field

[QUOTE=LeonS;24159637]You're pathetic, why do I even bother with someone who resorts to sarcasm and insults?[/QUOTE] You're absolutely right. "you're pathetic" is not an insult in any way. You are truly the master debater here.