Starcraft II Megathread V.1 'Hell, It's About Time' - Games

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;23927291]A 4 gate strat with a someone who's watching timers, can easily lay out an army of stalkers, zealots, and whatever else they want to supplement the army with in almost no time at all. It's really stupid to say zerg are faster when they can do that. Zergs higher end units are slightly faster, but much weaker even in mass. Zerg are not balanced with the other races.[/QUOTE] I think the same thing, but part of it I fear might come from the "hive mind" mentality (lol see what I did thar?). It seems as though when a few people start complaining about a race, or any mechanic in any game others who use that mechanic tend to complain as well. I do think that at lower skill levels zerg are harder to play, but what about at a pro level? The game is balanced around high level play, and I have no idea how good zerg is when you're playing at the level of Idra or others of team liquid.

[QUOTE=melonmonkey;23927402]I think the same thing, but part of it I fear might come from the "hive mind" mentality (lol see what I did thar?). It seems as though when a few people start complaining about a race, or any mechanic in any game others who use that mechanic tend to complain as well. I do think that at lower skill levels zerg are harder to play, but what about at a pro level? The game is balanced around high level play, and I have no idea how good zerg is when you're playing at the level of Idra or others of team liquid.[/QUOTE] Idra so far still hasn't got used to the new zerg and has rage quitted how many matches now?

[QUOTE=darkrei9n;23927400]Zerg are easily replaced. I can kill a entire zerg army and by the time its dead the Zerg could replace half of it.[/QUOTE] Yep, it's a war of attrition with zerg, however, that gives us such a problem on the defense, while offering only a slight advantage on offense. [editline]05:32PM[/editline] [QUOTE=melonmonkey;23927402]I think the same thing, but part of it I fear might come from the "hive mind" mentality (lol see what I did thar?). It seems as though when a few people start complaining about a race, or any mechanic in any game others who use that mechanic tend to complain as well. I do think that at lower skill levels zerg are harder to play, but what about at a pro level? The game is balanced around high level play, and I have no idea how good zerg is when you're playing at the level of Idra or others of team liquid.[/QUOTE] The game is balanced around ALL levels of play, not just high level play, but they aren't about to give low level players tools they would only otherwise acquire from skill and experience. Zerg are hard to play at ALL levels of play due to innate weaknesses in the race. There needs to be fixes and patches to balance it, but Zerg won't really have a chance in hell at being on the same playing field until HotS

[QUOTE=darkrei9n;23927439]Idra so far still hasn't got used to the new zerg and has rage quitted how many matches now?[/QUOTE] <_< Unless I'm looking at the wrong profile you're a bronze level terran player. I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but it's hard to respect your grasp on game balance :x

Stop copying and pasting from that thread lol

[QUOTE=melonmonkey;23927471]<_< Unless I'm looking at the wrong profile you're a bronze level terran player. I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but it's hard to respect your grasp on game balance :x[/QUOTE] Don't be hatin' on the bronze :colbert:

[QUOTE=melonmonkey;23927471]<_< Unless I'm looking at the wrong profile you're a bronze level terran player. I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but it's hard to respect your grasp on game balance :x[/QUOTE] So I have to be a high level player to know something about balance? I've beat gold level players before, I did horrible in my placement matches, that's why I'm in bronze.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;23927446]Yep, it's a war of attrition with zerg, however, that gives us such a problem on the defense, while offering only a slight advantage on offense. [editline]05:32PM[/editline] The game is balanced around ALL levels of play, not just high level play, but they aren't about to give low level players tools they would only otherwise acquire from skill and experience. Zerg are hard to play at ALL levels of play due to innate weaknesses in the race. There needs to be fixes and patches to balance it, [b]but Zerg won't really have a chance in hell at being on the same playing field until HotS[/b][/QUOTE] Falso. You do realize patches can be released before the expansion, right? Also I think Zerg are fine at the moment, they could do with some changes, but they aren't so severely crippled that they are unplayable. If you lose as Zerg, it's likely your fault, as you aren't playing diamond level players, and that's the only place these imbalances really show.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;23927446] The game is balanced around ALL levels of play, not just high level play, but they aren't about to give low level players tools they would only otherwise acquire from skill and experience. Zerg are hard to play at ALL levels of play due to innate weaknesses in the race. There needs to be fixes and patches to balance it, but Zerg won't really have a chance in hell at being on the same playing field until HotS[/QUOTE] I think a lot of it is that it's HARD to balance a race with so many micro and macro options as zerg around low levels of micro and macro. How would you do it? How would you make zerg better at low levels without being OP at high levels?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;23927291]A 4 gate strat with a someone who's watching timers, can easily lay out an army of stalkers, zealots, and whatever else they want to supplement the army with in almost no time at all. It's really stupid to say zerg are faster when they can do that. Zergs higher end units are slightly faster, but much weaker even in mass. Zerg are not balanced with the other races.[/QUOTE] Um it's not stupid to say zerg are faster, they are. Two hatcheries with queens constantly injecting can lead to you literally creating an entire army in about a minute if you have the resources. You can create every single unit at the same time, whereas unless they have 15+ gates they won't even be able to compete with that, and they can only make zealots/stalkers/sentries/dts warpgates.

[QUOTE=Godrek;23927573]Um it's not stupid to say zerg are faster, they are. Two hatcheries with queens constantly injecting can lead to you literally creating an entire army in about a minute if you have the resources. You can create every single unit at the same time, whereas unless they have 15+ gates they won't even be able to compete with that, and they can only make zealots/stalkers/sentries/dts warpgates.[/QUOTE] You're not taking into account the inherent value of each unit. A zealot can kill 3-4 zerglings. A collosus that isn't countered by air units can kill 10-20 light ground units before it dies, easily. (devil's advocate). However, when I'm on this same subject I want do discuss something else. There's a kind of "passive scaling" units get when they are in groups. It's not because of any sort of buff, but because of how they work together. Zerglings and mutalisks work EXCEPTIONALLY well and get better unit-per-unit for each one you have. Zealots and stalkers don't scale so well this way. It's a complicated mechanic that adds even more depth to this game.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqiulSLFncc[/media] Will probably buy this game for the customization possibilities of it. :v:

Zerglings aren't meant to kill zealots, they are meant to kill thors, colossi, etc. and harass drones

[QUOTE=Marlamin;23927799][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqiulSLFncc[/media] Will probably buy this game for the customization possibilities of it. :v:[/QUOTE] Oh god that looks amazing, I must download it when it can be downloaded

If anyone ever played the dobrp maps in WC3 I'd love to see what they can do with SC2 editor in terms of those types of maps, especially with the whole third person with mouse control possibilities.

[QUOTE=Godrek;23927803]Zerglings aren't meant to kill zealots, they are meant to kill thors, colossi, etc. and harass drones[/QUOTE] Zealot rush, zerg instant lose? Yeah, that's balanced. I've been rushed, deployed 6 zergling early game, and they've all died, killed a few of the zealots with workers/zergling micro, but still, one zealot takes 6 zergling, there's something wrong there.

[QUOTE=Godrek;23927803]Zerglings aren't meant to kill zealots, they are meant to kill thors, colossi, etc. and harass drones[/QUOTE] Zerglings are for venting minerals and keeping the front lines of your opponent's army busy while your power units destroy shit. In addition to those other things.

Haha, beat a guy who rushed me. Killed off my main, lifted off to a island, built up from there, came back and kicked ass and chewed bubble gum.

[QUOTE=Godrek;23927885]If anyone ever played the dobrp maps in WC3 I'd love to see what they can do with SC2 editor in terms of those types of maps, especially with the whole third person with mouse control possibilities.[/QUOTE] Wait awhile, The new rp maps suck horribly.

Yeeeeeee, I'm in plat now.

Colossi are worthless when they have no protection. A few stimmed marines/marauders can easily take one out even when they are backed by a zealot/stalker army. The game is VERY well balanced. Everyone in here complaining about balance is using the wrong units then wondering why they lose to their counters. Ps Vikings out range void rays massively. Don't let them charge up and they die easily to a few marines or a few Vikings. 1 Viking > 1 void ray.

[QUOTE=Xera;23928354]Colossi are worthless when they have no protection. A few stimmed marines/marauders can easily take one out even when they are backed by a zealot/stalker army. The game is VERY well balanced. Everyone in here complaining about balance is using the wrong units then wondering why they lose to their counters. Ps Vikings out range void rays massively. Don't let them charge up and they die easily to a few marines or a few Vikings. 1 Viking > 1 void ray.[/QUOTE] The game is not perfectly balanced. However, protoss and terran are fairly well balanced. Zerg aren't up to par, and a LOT of players, even a lot of higher up players feel the same way.

Finally beat an insane AI.. it's pretty easy if you 9 pool, 6 pooling would probably make it even easier. [editline]06:26PM[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;23928370]The game is not perfectly balanced. However, protoss and terran are fairly well balanced. Zerg aren't up to par, and a LOT of players, even a lot of higher up players feel the same way.[/QUOTE] Yes we know, deal with it, zerg can do just as good as any other race especially at low-mid level play. [editline]06:27PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Xera;23928354]Colossi are worthless when they have no protection. A few stimmed marines/marauders can easily take one out even when they are backed by a zealot/stalker army. The game is VERY well balanced. Everyone in here complaining about balance is using the wrong units then wondering why they lose to their counters. Ps Vikings out range void rays massively. Don't let them charge up and they die easily to a few marines or a few Vikings. 1 Viking > 1 void ray.[/QUOTE] Colossi and void rays can steamroll. [editline]06:30PM[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;23927954]Zealot rush, zerg instant lose? Yeah, that's balanced. I've been rushed, deployed 6 zergling early game, and they've all died, killed a few of the zealots with workers/zergling micro, but still, one zealot takes 6 zergling, there's something wrong there.[/QUOTE] Zealot rush doesn't mean zerg instant lose idiot, just zerglings are not suited to fighting large numbers of smaller units, they are meant to overwhelm slow attacking units and cause havoc among enemies while your stronger units pick them apart. One zealot takes 6 zerglings, you are right there is something wrong there, you. Only way a zealot can take 6 zerglings is if you are retarded. Sorry, but a zealot can not take 6 zerglings.

Was AFK in the menus for a bit, PD asks me for a game while i was away, then i come back and say yes and try to invite him, he is now AFK :bang:

[QUOTE=Godrek;23928374]Finally beat an insane AI.. it's pretty easy if you 9 pool, 6 pooling would probably make it even easier. [editline]06:26PM[/editline] Yes we know, deal with it, zerg can do just as good as any other race especially at low-mid level play. [editline]06:27PM[/editline] Colossi and void rays can steamroll. [editline]06:30PM[/editline] Zealot rush doesn't mean zerg instant lose idiot, just zerglings are not suited to fighting large numbers of smaller units, they are meant to overwhelm slow attacking units and cause havoc among enemies while your stronger units pick them apart. One zealot takes 6 zerglings, you are right there is something wrong there, you. Only way a zealot can take 6 zerglings is if you are retarded. Sorry, but a zealot can not take 6 zerglings.[/QUOTE] Yep, and I admit, I have no idea how to micro zergling yet. 4-1? Still zealot though.

[QUOTE=Keyblockor;23928312]Wait awhile, The new rp maps suck horribly.[/QUOTE] everyone just spams or doesn't know how to rp while using generic names like Dan or Joe or Bob

3-1. 3 zealots can kill a zealot with no micro, two can kill a zealot with micro.

[QUOTE=darkrei9n;23928791]3-1. 3 zealots can kill a zealot with no micro, two can kill a zealot with micro.[/QUOTE] You find 3 of most units can kill 1 of the same unit. Unless they are like banshees, which cannot hit air. :v:

Hmm Me and Auster is a good 2 on 2 team atleast :biggrin: MMM > All.

If you're sending zerglings to attack zealots you're doing it wrong. Send roaches against zealots. Why? Because that's their counter.