Renegade decisions in ME1 tend to be terrible in hindsight, or in the metagame.
Except Rens aren't supposed to care about horrible. Results are results. Patton was a shitty general to his troops, but damn if he couldn't fuck up the enemy on a regular basis.
[QUOTE=27X;29446591]Except Rens aren't supposed to care about horrible. Results are results. Patton was a shitty general to his troops, but damn if he couldn't fuck up the enemy on a regular basis.[/QUOTE]
Not terrible in the sense that what the Renegades are doing is "evil" but what they're doing is accomplished just as well, if not better by paragons. Decisions such as saving Wrex, saving the Rachni Queen, saving the Council, and saving the colony all seem to result in (as revealed later in ME2 or after the missions themselves) overall better results; Wrex goes on to lead the Krogan to become unified and less barbaric, saving the Rachni gives you access to a powerful ally in ME3 (whilst being peaceful to the rest of the galaxy), saving the Council gives you the adoration of the rest of the galaxy, and saving the colony results in no unfixable long term effects of Thorian control, whilst making Zhu's Hope a symbol for Humanity's tenacity.
The only Renegade decision that, if you metagamed or knew the results, would end with a "positive" outcome would be letting the Council die and taking over the Citadel, but that just ends with you spending the rest of the game dealing with pissed off Council races and nothing to really show for it besides, "We own the Citadel, woo."
Killing Wrex is not a renegade decision. You can save him through paragon or renegade, it's not having enough points in one of those that leads to him getting killed.
Nobody knows what the deal with the Rachni will be, saying they'll be a powerful ally is kind of silly. They could always become a powerful enemy as well.
The council idea can be argued either way, because the council sucks ass whether it's human or not. The adoration of the galaxy isn't really something Shepard should be caring about.
Zhu's hope is the only one I agree with, but only because we can look at it in retrospect. Before knowing what is going to happen, killing the colonists is logical, as is incapacitating them. Just depends on how you interpret the situation. Also, didn't the colonists have medical problems and whatnot resulting from the thorian? I thought that was the whole deal with the side-mission in ME2, the people weren't handling colonists with effects from the thorian fairly.
[QUOTE=MaverickIB;29446760]Killing Wrex is not a renegade decision. You can save him through paragon or renegade, it's not having enough points in one of those that leads to him getting killed.
Nobody knows what the deal with the Rachni will be, saying they'll be a powerful ally is kind of silly. They could always become a powerful enemy as well.
The council idea can be argued either way, because the council sucks ass whether it's human or not. The adoration of the galaxy isn't really something Shepard should be caring about.
Zhu's hope is the only one I agree with, but only because we can look at it in retrospect. Before knowing what is going to happen, killing the colonists is logical, as is incapacitating them. Just depends on how you interpret the situation. Also, didn't the colonists have medical problems and whatnot resulting from the thorian? I thought that was the whole deal with the side-mission in ME2, the people weren't handling colonists with effects from the thorian fairly.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I just lumped Wrex in there because I've seen it used as a renegade example in this thread before.
That's the issue with my constant whining about Renegade decisions I suppose, for all we know Bioware has been setting raw paragons in for a big surprise in ME3, since they've implied that Rachni are very susceptible to indoctrination.
Didn't Bioware imply we'll be seeing an attack on the Citadel in ME3? If so a Human fleet defending the Citadel won't do much as protection, while the Council races with the Destiny Ascension, however... Also it will be easy to get Humanity sided with you to take back Earth, while if you took the Citadel from the Asari and Turians I can guarantee it'll be difficult to get them on your side (after all the rest of the galaxy see's Humanity as a dangerous rogue state at the time of ME2 if you went renegade.)
Yeah they had medical problems, but wasn't the side-mission in ME2 to get a cure for whatever was ailing them? So that issue was resolved.
[QUOTE=MaverickIB;29446760]
Nobody knows what the deal with the Rachni will be, saying they'll be a powerful ally is kind of silly. They could always become a powerful enemy as well.[/QUOTE]
they said they would help, why would they lie? V:v:V
personally, things i want to see are conrad joining sheps team (even if for a single mission)
AND TALI'S GOD DAMN FACE!
I saved the Rachni, though I'd be impressed if Bioware did make saving them bite you in the ass. I think at least SOME renegade choices should result in better results than the Paragon ones.
[editline]26th April 2011[/editline]
It's heavily implied that the Rachni wars were caused by indoctrination, so there's not really anything stopping the Reapers doing that again.
[QUOTE=tommo400;29446973]I saved the Rachni, though I'd be impressed if Bioware did make saving them bite you in the ass. I think at least SOME renegade choices should result in better results than the Paragon ones.[/QUOTE]
like punching a news-reporter?
or just putting her to shame?
i did a LOT of renegade actions on the krogon homeworld during that one part
must have earned a lil' respect there
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;29446899]
Didn't Bioware imply we'll be seeing an attack on the Citadel in ME3? If so a Human fleet defending the Citadel won't do much as protection, while the Council races with the Destiny Ascension, however... Also it will be easy to get Humanity sided with you to take back Earth, while if you took the Citadel from the Asari and Turians I can guarantee it'll be difficult to get them on your side (after all the rest of the galaxy see's Humanity as a dangerous rogue state at the time of ME2 if you went renegade.)
[/QUOTE]
Hasn't the Council been ignorant to the Reaper threat this entire time? If you saved the Council, there's a good chance they'll completely ignore your warnings and not prepare for a Reaper invasion. Hell, it could be ME1 all over again. Either way, there's going to be some serious political infighting and 10 bucks says the Citadel gets fucked over regardless.
I'd rather humanity have control over the Citadel and face the Reaper invasion with a "We're going to fight these assholes with or without you, you other races can join us if you want to live," over not having control over it and be begging "Please listen to me please the Reapers are coming please organize a fleet to fight them please listen."
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;29446686]Not terrible in the sense that what the Renegades are doing is "evil" but what they're doing is accomplished just as well, if not better by paragons. Decisions such as saving Wrex, saving the Rachni Queen, saving the Council, and saving the colony all seem to result in (as revealed later in ME2 or after the missions themselves) overall better results; Wrex goes on to lead the Krogan to become unified and less barbaric, saving the Rachni gives you access to a powerful ally in ME3 (whilst being peaceful to the rest of the galaxy), saving the Council gives you the adoration of the rest of the galaxy, and saving the colony results in no unfixable long term effects of Thorian control, whilst making Zhu's Hope a symbol for Humanity's tenacity.
The only Renegade decision that, if you metagamed or knew the results, would end with a "positive" outcome would be letting the Council die and taking over the Citadel, but that just ends with you spending the rest of the game dealing with pissed off Council races and nothing to really show for it besides, "We own the Citadel, woo."[/QUOTE]
That's because Renegade favors a 'humans first' stand and short-term decisions. The rachni attacked last time they were around, and they could it again, based on the history the galaxy had about them; Wrex went angry about Virmire and could jeopardize the mission; the Council was a dick to humanity even when Paragon, so that's debatable; I didn't see any diferences on saving the colony, probably it's why it wasn't mentioned on that PS3 Comic, other than Shiala and her possible romance in ME3.
Also I'm pretty sure that ME1 choices are bite us in the ass, regardless which they were.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;29446686]Not terrible in the sense that what the Renegades are doing is "evil" but what they're doing is accomplished just as well, if not better by paragons. Decisions such as saving Wrex, saving the Rachni Queen, saving the Council, and saving the colony all seem to result in (as revealed later in ME2 or after the missions themselves) overall better results; Wrex goes on to lead the Krogan to become unified and less barbaric, saving the Rachni gives you access to a powerful ally in ME3 (whilst being peaceful to the rest of the galaxy), saving the Council gives you the adoration of the rest of the galaxy, and saving the colony results in no unfixable long term effects of Thorian control, whilst making Zhu's Hope a symbol for Humanity's tenacity.
The only Renegade decision that, if you metagamed or knew the results, would end with a "positive" outcome would be letting the Council die and taking over the Citadel, but that just ends with you spending the rest of the game dealing with pissed off Council races and nothing to really show for it besides, "We own the Citadel, woo."[/QUOTE]
Again forest for trees. You can just as easily argue the Krogan need to get dead, and there's nothing to suggest Wrex will succeed, because as badass as he is, he is one among many, and it's pretty obvious he's pissing people off left and right, and most races still hate or distrust Krogans, unlike the Quarians, Krogans just don't give a fuck. Keeping the base means indoctrination and misery but it also likely means more thanix style juju, so again, ends justify means.
Renegades don't care about that shit, they fix YOUR problems THEIR way, cause they don't have time for your disingenuous bullshit and if people die or new problems arise for their actions, deal with it.
They did what they were going to do, and the initial problem is resolved or dead.
Paragon is inclusivist and slow, renegade is exclusivist and done yesterday.
If you're playing to be a deliberate dick, you shouldn't be surprised when negativity abounds. *shrug*
I always find it humorous that most renegades want to be rewarded like paragons when mass effect has never been about teenage angst power fantasies, it's about how humans react to things, both positively and negatively. If I make someone at my job work hard and on top of that I'm an ass to them every chance I get, why the hell would I be upset about them not giving me a retirement gift when I leave? Why would I be expecting one in the first place?
That's fucking stupid. I went out of my way to be a complete fuckface to get what I wanted, and I expect ice cream on top of that.... really?
Renegades get ass/dick points, cool points and results. Paragons get rewards and a longer path of inclusive webs.
Both are equally effective as far as the game is concerned, and renegades just need to learn to shut the fuck up about what they "should" get, as they aren't in charge of the game's development. *shrug*
[QUOTE=MaverickIB;29447019]Hasn't the Council been ignorant to the Reaper threat this entire time? If you saved the Council, there's a good chance they'll completely ignore your warnings and not prepare for a Reaper invasion. Hell, it could be ME1 all over again. Either way, there's going to be some serious political infighting and 10 bucks says the Citadel gets fucked over regardless.[/QUOTE]
they have harvested the galaxy unknown amounts of times, and this time, ONE tiny human and his team are fucking everything up, i don't think it's going to phase the reapers much if they destroy their Citadel to get back at them
Renegade choices are often long-term decisions. I don't understand where people get this short term concept from. Paragon choices often focus on short-term decisions.
Paragon: Save these people now, then we can worry about the mission.
Renegade: Only save these people if we don't have to go out of our way for them, the mission comes first.
[QUOTE=_Maverick_;29447090]they have harvested the galaxy unknown amounts of times, and this time, ONE tiny human and his team are fucking everything up, i don't think it's going to phase the reapers much if they destroy their Citadel to get back at them[/QUOTE]
What? I'm having a hard time understanding what you're saying. Why would humans/others destroy the Citadel? I'm saying the Citadel will probably be overrun by the Reapers regardless. If the humans have taken over the council, it will because humans can't fight Reapers alone. If the council was saved, it'll be because they are ignorant of the Reaper threat and won't prepare.
[QUOTE=MaverickIB;29447095]
What? I'm having a hard time understanding what you're saying. Why would humans/others destroy the Citadel?[/QUOTE]
no..no.. sorry i meant the REAPERS destroying the Citadel
Okay... So what are you saying? The Citadel is a vital hub for nearly every species, it's destruction would cripple everyone politically.
[QUOTE=MaverickIB;29447202]Okay... So what are you saying? The Citadel is a vital hub for nearly every species, it's destruction would cripple everyone politically.[/QUOTE]
yes thats exactly what i'm saying.
also on a side note
[img]http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/114/8/5/left_4_effect___zombie_elcors_by_berd89-d3eqwph.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=MaverickIB;29446340]Yeah, you know it's the thorian, but you don't know exactly how it's controlling people and whatnot. As in you, don't know if killing it would make them stop going crazy and whatnot.[/QUOTE]
You know that the Thorian spores are controlling them and it's because of that they're weak to the gas 'nades.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;29446899]Yeah they had medical problems, but wasn't the side-mission in ME2 to get a cure for whatever was ailing them? So that issue was resolved.[/QUOTE]
They weren't resolved, they were studied to find a possible cause/cure, and the [del]medical corporation[/del] stupid-ass Asari wanted [del]more money[/del] "revenge" for her daughter. Or was it husband. Whatever.
[QUOTE=_Maverick_;29447250]yes thats exactly what i'm saying.
also on a side note
[img_thumb]http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/114/8/5/left_4_effect___zombie_elcors_by_berd89-d3eqwph.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]
I'd play it :v:
[QUOTE=imadaman;29447297]
They weren't resolved, they were studied to find a possible cause/cure, and the [del]medical corporation[/del] stupid-ass Asari wanted [del]more money[/del] "revenge" for her daughter. Or was it husband. Whatever.[/QUOTE]
her bond mate was on the quirain homeworld she said.
Something along that-a-way
[QUOTE=MaverickIB;29446077]Heretics only make up a small part of the Geth, the Geth will have a huge army regardless of whether you re-write the heretics or not. Remember that virtually all Geth stay behind the Veil.[/QUOTE]
But don't the Heretics have the largest Geth fleet? "Normal" Geth are mostly just stored in computers.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;29447684]But don't the Heretics have the largest Geth fleet? "Normal" Geth are mostly just stored in computers.[/QUOTE]
The Geth fleet is estimated to be around 8,000 ships, I think they used the vast majority of their ships in the Battle of the Citadel.
UDK renders of the New Normandy (fan made)
[media]http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5263/5654572433_2452196a0d_b.jpg[/media]
[media]http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5149/5655146970_795946a0f9_b.jpg[/media]
[media]http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5186/5654573331_9f57a4e9b2_b.jpg[/media]
Looks slicker than I thought.
[QUOTE=phaedon;29447950]UDK renders of the New Normandy (fan made)
[media]http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5263/5654572433_2452196a0d_b.jpg[/media]
[media]http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5149/5655146970_795946a0f9_b.jpg[/media]
[media]http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5186/5654573331_9f57a4e9b2_b.jpg[/media]
Looks slicker than I thought.[/QUOTE]
blue looks better
[QUOTE=Pachengo;29423532]I would love to see some insane, asinine crossover as a result of reapers altering space time/opening wormholes or some shit.[/QUOTE]
A reaper gets Wheatley attached to him and forces Shepard to run through a series of mazes.
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;29448021]A reaper gets Wheatley attached to him and forces Shepard to run through a series of mazes.[/QUOTE]
Better yet. They found Space-Sphere.
[QUOTE=Arachnidus;29448096]Better yet. They found Space-Sphere.[/QUOTE]
"SPAAAAAAAAAAAACE!!!"
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rhlOH2VpyM[/media]
Space Sphere would indoctrinate the reapers.
[QUOTE=Thom12255;29448171]Space Sphere would indoctrinate the reapers.[/QUOTE]
"I'minspace."
SHODAN attached to GLaDOS attached to Offensive Bias attached to HAL 9000 imbued with some WOPR and Skynet plus a couple Minds. Actually, let's add some TechnoCore, SID 6.7 and ARIA just to fuck with people. Actually I'm gonna throw in the Puppet Master in somewhere too.
That should be an interesting combination.
EDIT: For the uninformed: SHODAN almost virtualized the whole universe and became god, everyone knows GLaDOS, Offensive Bias is an [url=http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Offensive_Bias]extremely badas[/url]s Forefunner military AI from Halo, HAL 9000 is the AI who went insane in 2001: A Space Odyssey, WOPR is the AI from WarGames, Skynet is from Terminator and almost exterminated humans with nukes, Minds are hyperintelligent AIs from the Culture novels who govern The Culture. TechnoCore is a race of post-technological singularity AIs created by humanity in the Hyperion novels, SID 6.7 is an AI with the minds of over 150 criminals implanted into it from Virtuosity, ARIA is from Eagle Eye (a terrible film by the way) and Puppet Master is from Ghost in the Shell.
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