Developers need to stop allowing people who pre-ordered to play the game as-is. - Games

Your post says nothing of pre-orders, which is kinda funny.

[QUOTE=aero1444;29953933]That's kind of what I'm saying. If developers release the game early and unfinished and get paid for it, what's their motivation to keep producing more content for the game?[/QUOTE] Making a good game that lives up to or exceeds the standards that you originally imagined for it. There was no guarantee that Minecraft or Cortex Command was ever going to meet or exceed the standards and expectations originally envisioned for those games, the only difference between games like Minecraft and Cortex Command, and games of which the development has ceased before completion, is that the former group accepted payments to help support development and the latter did not. I doubt money is the key factor in the development of indie games coming to a halt (perhaps with the exception of Minecraft levels of success, Notch has likely just got really distracted by all the amazing opportunities that have opened up to him since he become a millionaire which is understandable but kinda shitty), I think it's probably just a case of good old human "Got bored of this project so now I'm gonna stop." I wonder how many of these unfinished projects would have not suffered this fate if they'd accepted pre-orders. You mentioned Wolfire as an exception, they are an example of people who seem to genuinely care about making something they can be proud of and are very professional about their work too. Considering the extensive work of modders and indie teams like Wolfire, I don't quite think it's fair to say that Wolfire is an exception, or that accepting pre-orders is the key factor in the development of a game stopping, I'm not gonna say it's not a contributing factor because likely it is for some people, but I think most of the blame just lies with the level of commitment the team working on the game display.

[QUOTE=Kondor58;30147349]I don't get what notch is doing, minecraft is out of beta but it's being "released" on 11/11/11[/QUOTE] It's still in beta.

I honestly never bought Minecraft. I played it and liked it, but I didn't want to put my money into it for the fear of it being abandoned because, as you said in the OP, it became popular and Notch got what he wanted, and lots of it. I did buy Terraria though, and I'm liking it a lot.

[QUOTE=Riutet;30147540]There was no guarantee that Minecraft or Cortex Command was ever going to meet or exceed the standards and expectations originally envisioned for those games, the only difference between games like Minecraft and Cortex Command, and games of which the development has ceased before completion, is that the former group accepted payments to help support development and the latter did not.[/quote] The guarantee was made clear when we were asked to purchase the full version. Cortex Command and Minecraft are still in development and are not finished, so I'm pretty sure my guarantee has not been fulfilled. [quote]I think it's probably just a case of good old human "Got bored of this project so now I'm gonna stop."[/quote] That's exactly what I'm saying, it's unacceptable when we've paid these people money. [editline]31st May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=redBadger;30147528]Your post says nothing of pre-orders, which is kinda funny.[/QUOTE] But it's clear that I'm talking about them.

[QUOTE=ChristopherB;30146715]I'm quite annoyed at Data Realms; they took my money and ran! :argh:[/QUOTE]Dude chill bro we're working on it. Here's a SVN commit feed and a .gif showing Lua AI in action: [url]http://twitter.com/datarealms[/url] [url]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3005535/CC/LuaAI_GoTo01.gif[/url] Even though there was a disclaimer when you bought the game that it might never be finished, we are going to keep on working on it until it can be considered a finished game, don't worry.

[QUOTE=aero1444;30147614]The guarantee was made clear when we were asked to purchase the full version. Cortex Command and Minecraft are still in development and are not finished, so I'm pretty sure my guarantee has not been fulfilled.[/QUOTE] Really? I can't speak for Cortex Command (although technically it still isn't abandoned it's just updating very very very slowly) but I don't recall Notch ever saying that by purchasing Minecraft you're getting all the features he wanted to put in guaranteed, I only remember it being said that we'd be paying for the game as is, and that we'd be getting free access to all future updates and the full version of the game when it was released. And so far he's fulfilled that promise, we're getting the game when he deems it finished and we're getting all the updates that lead up to that finished state. Not that it doesn't suck that it's seriously lacking in content and currently the only thing giving it an edge is that the modding community is excellent. [editline]31st May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=aero1444;30147614]That's exactly what I'm saying, it's unacceptable when we've paid these people money.[/QUOTE] Except in a lot of cases you're not buying the game as it is promised, you're paying to fund the development of it and get early access to it as well as possibly having a say when it comes to design decisions and a lot of these teams state that. There is never a guarantee that all the features that were promised to be in the game will make it in, you cannot expect developers to meet their promises whether you paid them or not because things do not always go as intended, the only thing you can do is refuse to buy a game until you personally think it has a reached a state in which you could say "This game is finished." Also, your reply doesn't rebut the supposition I have made about the reason I think why the development indie games may stop before reaching the state the developer intended them to reach, I believe your original point was that once they get paid they don't feel motivated to carry on, but as I think I may have already stated there are many factors that can cause development of a game to come to a permanent standstill and a developer getting a sufficient infusion of cash probably is but one of many reasons.

[QUOTE=Lizzrd;30147672]Dude chill bro we're working on it. Here's a SVN commit feed and a .gif showing Lua AI in action: [url]http://twitter.com/datarealms[/url] [url]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3005535/CC/LuaAI_GoTo01.gif[/url] Even though there was a disclaimer when you bought the game that it might never be finished, we are going to keep on working on it until it can be considered a finished game, don't worry.[/QUOTE] I'm still not convinced. It will take more than engine-changes and LUA implementations to make me feel as if the game is playable. :colbert:

There has been a huge increase of preorder offer around every online distributor. It's really annoying, but investing in an Indie title is something different. One should be capable of thinking if the money is worth it. Even if not, you only loose a few bucks.

[QUOTE=junker|154;30149141]There has been a huge increase of preorder offer around every online distributor. It's really annoying, but investing in an Indie title is something different. One should be capable of thinking if the money is worth it. Even if not, you only loose a few bucks.[/QUOTE] I believe most people realize there is a risk of losing their money when they invest their money in an unfinished indie title, but the part that is insulting is when the feverish development of a title slows to a crawl as soon as the developer has received some funds. Minecraft is a fair example of this; the updates to the game slowed down considerably after he earned all of those sales.

There are few developers that still support the game on release, Relic for example releases Dawn of War 2 updates that helps balance the game a bit more. Along with Company of Heroes updates infrequently because currently, there isn't really anything wrong with it.

[QUOTE=OutOfExile2;29954059]People should stop being idiots and realize the risk of buying unfinished games[/QUOTE] I wouldn't have been so mad about it if they didn't release cortex command for free.

[QUOTE=Lizzrd;30147672]Dude chill bro we're working on it. Here's a SVN commit feed and a .gif showing Lua AI in action: [url]http://twitter.com/datarealms[/url] [url]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3005535/CC/LuaAI_GoTo01.gif[/url] Even though there was a disclaimer when you bought the game that it might never be finished, we are going to keep on working on it until it can be considered a finished game, don't worry.[/QUOTE] If you are who you say you are, then you should defiantly consider adding Multi-core support and/or Multi-threading support.

[QUOTE=gazzy_GUI;30161323]If you are who you say you are, then you should defiantly consider adding Multi-core support and/or Multi-threading support.[/QUOTE] And a way to make the camera independent of the actor you have selected. And a GUI that resizes appropriately for large resolutions so the menus aren't tiny on a 1080p monitor. And have volume settings save so the menu music doesn't burst my eardrums every time I load up the game. And finish the campaign with proper missions. And add proper multiplayer support so we can play with people on different computers, not just splitscreen. And alter the "buy" menu so it isn't just a massive list of items with tiny icons next to it. :colbert:

Reminds me of a video I once watched on Wimp. Basically, you let people know you're doing something like exercising, they compliment you on it, and after you've received your compliment, you stop caring so much.

[QUOTE=ChristopherB;30161474]And a way to make the camera independent of the actor you have selected. And a GUI that resizes appropriately for large resolutions so the menus aren't tiny on a 1080p monitor. And have volume settings save so the menu music doesn't burst my eardrums every time I load up the game. And finish the campaign with proper missions. And add proper multiplayer support so we can play with people on different computers, not just splitscreen. And alter the "buy" menu so it isn't just a massive list of items with tiny icons next to it. :colbert:[/QUOTE] Some of these are already possible, if you hold the button to switch actors, you can move the mouse around to wherever you want and it'll be independent from the actor. the rest i agree, except campaign and buy menu. Missions should be an extra bonus. Campaign should be something else.

[QUOTE=ChristopherB;30161474]And a way to make the camera independent of the actor you have selected. And a GUI that resizes appropriately for large resolutions so the menus aren't tiny on a 1080p monitor. And have volume settings save so the menu music doesn't burst my eardrums every time I load up the game. And finish the campaign with proper missions. And add proper multiplayer support so we can play with people on different computers, not just splitscreen. And alter the "buy" menu so it isn't just a massive list of items with tiny icons next to it. :colbert:[/QUOTE] Multi threading is top priority in my opinion, due to the shit performance ingame.

The biggest conflict I can see arise out of not releasing any content to the public for out of house testing and evaluation is that Notch wouldn't be in the position he is in right now because he's been able to gain a somewhat large audience because of the pre-release; most developers in this position simply can't afford to keep promises and then appear to break them on release like this; they have to maintain interest in such small projects such as minecraft. When studios have momentum behind their names and projects they are able to afford it because of previous success, Notch came out of the blue with a new and wild idea and actually had something to show; most people couldn't say that.