[QUOTE=MrBob1337;23505540]That would work, but we still need some backing. What if, for example, a couple of business owners decide that gold is useless (it is in many ways). If they stop accepting gold coins, and (for example) many people have their wealth in gold, then OTHER business owners will have to as well (they need to buy things, too). People could lose a great majority of their wealth before people fully understood what was happening.
If we kept a universally valuable resource (iron, or diamond) in a large reserve, then we could keep inflation/deflation/any unwanted currency fluctuations from occuring, because we could just say "No matter what, gold is worth x iron at the treasury and diamond is worth y blablabla".[/QUOTE]
This is like saying if a business in the usa stopped accepting usa currency then other businesses will do the same. Doesn't really happen.
But I do like the bank part. But there a problems with that. We would have to hire very trust worthy people to look after it.
No, because the dollar is backed by gold.
:edit:
Which is similar to Iron in real life because it is universally accepted as valuable.
[QUOTE=HolyCrusade;23505563]Notch stated there [B]will [/B]be currency, but (which is just a very stupid move) will not add any trading mechanics. As in you have to drop things at the same time to trade. Which makes it very risky.[/QUOTE]
He should at least add in a basic one, where, if you right click a player you can open up a box to give to them, and you see a box for what people will give to you, like this:
[img]http://s3.amazonaws.com/readers/2009/08/16/essencerunningairtrade_1.png[/img]
Yes, yes, Runescape. It worked well. I do not play.
[QUOTE=ManningQB18;23505653]He should at least add in a basic one, where, if you right click a player you can open up a box to give to them, and you see a box for what people will give to you, like this:
[img]http://s3.amazonaws.com/readers/2009/08/16/essencerunningairtrade_1.png[/img]
Yes, yes, Runescape. It worked well. I do not play.[/QUOTE]
Well if he doesn't add a trade system in then people could always make a room that only the owner can open and they can trade there and be on their way.
[QUOTE=HolyCrusade;23505563]Notch stated there [B]will [/B]be currency, but (which is just a very stupid move) will not add any trading mechanics. As in you have to drop things at the same time to trade. Which makes it very risky.[/QUOTE]
He didn't said he won't add trading mechanics. If he adds currency it's practically a given that he will add trading.
[editline]02:19AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=MrBob1337;23505540]That would work, but we still need some backing. What if, for example, a couple of business owners decide that gold is useless (it is in many ways). If they stop accepting gold coins, and (for example) many people have their wealth in gold, then OTHER business owners will have to as well (they need to buy things, too). People could lose a great majority of their wealth before people fully understood what was happening.
If we kept a universally valuable resource (iron, or diamond) in a large reserve, then we could keep inflation/deflation/any unwanted currency fluctuations from occuring, because we could just say "No matter what, gold is worth x iron at the treasury and diamond is worth y blablabla".[/QUOTE]
Which is exactly what I said.
The metals should be used as currency. X of this metal equals Y of this one.
There is no reason for someone to stop accepting gold as it is a currency. It's like saying you refuse to accept one dollar notes because you think they're useless. It's a dumb thing to do as [b]it will always have value[/b] even if [i]you[/i] use it or not.
No it won't. If you stop, and you have enough leverage, other people will too, because for you it no longer has value and they can't use it when dealing with you. And so on and so forth. If you back it up with something that has intrinsic value (i.e. iron is a good construction material), then it is simply a voucher for that useful material, and it WILL have value.
It may seem unlikely, and it probably is, but we might as well take steps to prevent it while we can. I'm not saying it is necessary every minute of every day, but wouldn't it be better to KNOW that the economy will continue then to be pretty sure it will.
You guys realize that even IF you agree on X metal = Y metal, people will NOT follow it. They will always change it around to attract more business. I just doubt anyone will follow it.
If only one person stops accepting it they will lose out.
You're not understanding what I mean here; the only way it would cause a large impact is if a significant portion of the population stops accepting it.
Gold has half the value of diamond, and always will, what's so hard to understand about that?
If people accept that they can use gold for trading, despite it's uselessness it will remain a part of the economy no matter what happens.
[QUOTE=Jacinth;23506244]You guys realize that even IF you agree on X metal = Y metal, people will NOT follow it. They will always change it around to attract more business. I just doubt anyone will follow it.[/QUOTE]
Yes, that's what I'm saying. You agree that iron is a very useful metal, right? If the gold coin was simply a voucher to get X iron at a time of your choosing (from the central reserve), would you respect that one gold coin = X iron coins.
[QUOTE=Jacinth;23506244]You guys realize that even IF you agree on X metal = Y metal, people will NOT follow it. They will always change it around to attract more business. I just doubt anyone will follow it.[/QUOTE]
People would follow it because that's how much there is in the map when it's generated. People would change it around a little, yes. Such is the nature of economy, but the values will always remain around that much. Diamond will probably be worth a lot more though.
[editline]02:34AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=MrBob1337;23506289]Yes, that's what I'm saying. You agree that iron is a very useful metal, right? If the gold coin was simply a voucher to get X iron at a time of your choosing (from the central reserve), would you respect that one gold coin = X iron coins.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Now where is the problem of the economy breaking if someone says "I don't want any gold"? People would just barter with what they have.
.. Ever played an MMO with a complex economy and trading system? EVE for example? Items cost different amounts depending on what the majority are willing to pay for it. What they see as fair or not, and of course taking into account if there is any of that resource in the local area or not. Diamonds from a mine down the street are gonna be cheaper (proportionally) than importing that gold from over the other side of the map.
If someone wants an item but the vendor won't accept X, Y or Z for it, the buyer would just barter with something else.
Over time, items will come to have a set value determined on rarity, usefulness and demand, regardless of any "set guidelines". This is just how things work.
[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;23504602]u need to think about Minecraft Sustainability.
plant trees after you cut them down, eat wheat, don't kill pigs, green minecraft[/QUOTE]
Killing pigs doesn't really matter because they respawn like every 20 minutes.
-Snip-
[QUOTE=mookman22;23506342]Killing pigs doesn't really matter because they respawn like every 20 minutes.[/QUOTE]
It was a joke.
You do not take into account the fickleness of people. If someone/some people who control a lot of money (big company, large bank, whatever) decide that gold is a plague upon the world and decide that one plank is worth 20 gold blocks, people will no longer use gold there (and may lose a lot of their money.). If someone/some people in control of money decides that gold is far better than iron for use in buildings, and therefore gold = 50 iron where the agreed-upon exchange price is gold = 10 iron or something, people who purchased from him will try to use more gold, which (depending on other people's thoughts) will change their total saving's value around.
We either need to back up all currency with iron, or just use iron + batering.
Quick mock-up of a trading system:
[URL=http://filesmelt.com/][IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/trade.png[/IMG][/URL]
Trader 1 stands on one side, and trader 2 on the other
[editline]02:42AM[/editline]
obviously this will be secured by iron doors and switches
[QUOTE=MrBob1337;23506406]You do not take into account the fickleness of people. If someone/some people who control a lot of money (big company, large bank, whatever) decide that gold is a plague upon the world and decide that one plank is worth 20 gold blocks, people will no longer use gold there (and may lose a lot of their money.). If someone/some people in control of money decides that gold is far better than iron for use in buildings, and therefore gold = 50 iron where the agreed-upon exchange price is gold = 10 iron or something, people who purchased from him will try to use more gold, which (depending on other people's thoughts) will change their total saving's value around.
We either need to back up all currency with iron, or just use iron + batering.[/QUOTE]
Jesus christ bro.
We ARE backing up the currency.
Value is 1 : 4 : 50 : 100, respectively for coal, iron, gold and diamonds.
Expect fluctuations depending on area and trader, but these are the guideline values for the materials.
Also change your avatar. It makes me want to punch my monitor it's so dumb and childish.
Ok, but I suggest removing/changing gold. It's rather useless, and just because it's rare doesn't mean it's worth much at all.
[QUOTE=MrBob1337;23506557]Ok, but I suggest removing/changing gold. It's rather useless, and just because it's rare doesn't mean it's worth much at all.[/QUOTE]
...
[b]TOKEN[/b]
[b]VALUE[/b]
Get it through your head already.
[editline]02:54AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mbbird;23504941]Notch should implement a polution system, so we can make Facepunchopolis look like what Britain did when people discovered they could use coal to heat their homes.[/QUOTE]
London, and that was during the industrial revolution when coal was being used in factories to drive huge machines 24/7.
What do you mean by "TOKEN VALUE"? Are you saying that people will pay more for it then iron because you say it should be so? No. Doesn't work like that. There is no reason someone would treat gold as more valuable then iron.
Ladies ladies... lets be civil here.
[QUOTE=MrBob1337;23506639]What do you mean by "TOKEN VALUE"? Are you saying that people will pay more for it then iron because you say it should be so? No. Doesn't work like that. There is no reason someone would treat gold as more valuable then iron.[/QUOTE]
A 50 dollar bill is worth half what a 100 dollar bill is.
They have TOKEN VALUE. The actual value of the paper is next to none.
In this case it just happens that one of the currencies can be used to manufacture goods.
That's the whole point of currency. The fact that it may be completely worthless in itself but it is widely accepted to be worth a certain amount of a useful substance.
If people have different exchange rates in different towns they should stick a sign in the town hall / trade hall / somewhere people will see it or if different people accept different amounts for goods, they should just tell the person they are trading with.
Holy.. people could take advantage of differing exchange rates to become RICH! Say you live in an area where gold is expensive, go somewhere where gold is cheap as fuck and sell all your stuff for gold.
Return home and be rich beyond your wildest dreams!
A 50 dollar bill is worth half a 100 dollar bill because they are backed by different amounts of the gold reserve. Diamond should be more expensive then iron because it is more durable. You don't seem to understand that money is worthwhile because it is backed up with something with intrinsic value.
Unless you are going to control values with a iron/diamond reserve (which you seem pretty against, for reasons I cannot comprehend) gold should be on the bottom part of the currency scale. There is little to no reason for someone to regard it as more valuable than iron.
[QUOTE=MrBob1337;23506713]A 50 dollar bill is worth half a 100 dollar bill because they are backed by different amounts of the gold reserve. Diamond should be more expensive then iron because it is more durable. You don't seem to understand that money is worthwhile because it is backed up with something with intrinsic value.[/QUOTE]
You are dumb, Go look up Token value and come back.
[QUOTE=MrBob1337;23506713]A 50 dollar bill is worth half a 100 dollar bill because they are backed by different amounts of the gold reserve. Diamond should be more expensive then iron because it is more durable. You don't seem to understand that money is worthwhile because it is backed up with something with intrinsic value.[/QUOTE]
You don't seem to understand that they'll be backed up. I said this at least 4 times. Learn to read.
If notch DOES add currency, I hope he doesn't make it craftable by everyone and anyone. It should only be available to be made by an official mint or people are gonna just make their own money (and there won't be any gold bars left due to frantic coin-crafting). Some kind of NPC that you an trade with for money, and is the only source of said money would solve this issue. People would go get items, sell them to this trader NPC (who has unlimited cash) and gain coins from it. Much like in Runescape, where currency cannot be crafted, only traded between players and NPCs.
[URL=http://filesmelt.com/][IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/WLsoldierpic.png[/IMG][/URL]
I don't own the game yet, but the external Java editor thing is fun.
[URL=http://filesmelt.com/][IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/WLsoldierGasmaskpic.png[/IMG][/URL]
Complete with gas mask.
And then I realized what era I should be spriting for :downs: Only about a thousand years off.
[QUOTE=facepuke;23506758]You are dumb, Go look up Token value and come back.[/QUOTE]
You look up token value. Token value is value that is not intrinsic to the actual object, but the object is instead a voucher for something with intrinsic value.
[QUOTE=Azur;23506774]You don't seem to understand that they'll be backed up. I said this at least 4 times. Learn to read.[/QUOTE]
I'm not talking about saying "Because this metal is this rare, it is this valuable." I'm talking about having a physical stash of iron to back up the "published value". This probably isn't needed (for anything except gold) but you have never said anything about that.
Also, fuck you, I'll change my avatar when I want to. It is a screencap from a video I found humorous, and when I get bored of it, I'll change it. My avatar is not here for your amusement or pleasure.
[QUOTE=Mbbird;23506898][IMG_thumb]http://filesmelt.com/dl/WLsoldierpic.png[/IMG_thumb]
I don't own the game yet, but the external Java editor thing is fun.
[IMG_thumb]http://filesmelt.com/dl/WLsoldierGasmaskpic.png[/IMG_thumb]
Complete with gas mask :smile:
And then I realized what era I should be spriting for :downs: Only about a thousand years off.[/QUOTE]
Heh, yeah. It's funny to see people who make iron man skins only to realise that minecraft is set in some random fantasy era with no tech more advanced than levers and doors. (Redstone doesn't count as it's some stupid magic dust and not electricity)
[editline]03:15AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=MrBob1337;23506933]You look up token value. Token value is value that is not intrinsic to the actual object, but the object is instead a voucher for something with intrinsic value.
I'm not talking about saying "Because this metal is this rare, it is this valuable." I'm talking about having a physical stash of iron to back up the "published value". This probably isn't needed (for anything except gold) but you have never said anything about that.[/QUOTE]
Stop posting about this. Now. You do not understand how trading or economy works. You know the word intrinsic and that's about it.
Everyone will accept gold as a currency if everyone does.
If a new guy comes in and says "what is this iron worth" and someone tries to trade gold with him, he might say "but gold is useless", at which point the trader replies with "but everyone accepts it anyway. you can trade it for other stuff". And so gold has value because people accept that it is merely a token for trading, with little other worth.
I hope my little story helped you understand this complicated issue.
What knowledge have you shown? You just keep saying "lol token value" and don't seem to understand I am no longer talking about a physical reserve, but instead talking about gold and it's respective vaule. You are acting like an asshole, you are pretending to know about economics, and I don't feel like I want to continue arguing with you. All I am saying (now, at least) is that gold is less useful than iron, and this should be reflected in the currency scale.
As to my economic knowledge, the US dollar is backed up by a gold reserve, which allows partial control of inflation (though some does occur due to the variable price of gold).
PS: Token value is not an actual term. I'm not sure what you meant for me to learn by telling me to Google it, facepuke.
[QUOTE=MrBob1337;23506933]Also, fuck you, I'll change my avatar when I want to. It is a screencap from a video I found humorous, and when I get bored of it, I'll change it. My avatar is not here for your amusement or pleasure.[/QUOTE]
Your avatar serves as an image for people to judge you on, as it is an expression of your personality.
I get a very bad impression from the name "Mister Bob 1337" and your avatar isn't helping. At the moment I have you down as an annoying 12 / 13 / 14 year old kid who thinks he's a lot more mature than he is.
[QUOTE=Azur;23507109]Your avatar serves as an image for people to judge you on, as it is an expression of your personality.
I get a very bad impression from the name "Mister Bob 1337" and your avatar isn't helping. At the moment I have you down as an annoying 12 / 13 / 14 year old kid who thinks he's a lot more mature than he is.[/QUOTE]
Your avatar is a diamond, I'll assume your an elitist prick who I'll never know because you only hang out with the cool rocks.
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