[QUOTE=MrBob1337;23507104]What knowledge have you shown? You just keep saying "lol token value" and don't seem to understand I am no longer talking about a physical reserve, but instead talking about gold and it's respective vaule. You are acting like an asshole, you are pretending to know about economics, and I don't feel like I want to continue arguing with you. All I am saying (now, at least) is that gold is less useful than iron, and this should be reflected in the currency scale.
As to my economic knowledge, the US dollar is backed up by a gold reserve, which allows partial control of inflation (though some does occur due to the variable price of gold).
PS: Token value is not an actual term. I'm not sure what you meant for me to learn by telling me to Google it, facepuke.[/QUOTE]
Take an MMO as an example. Do you think the game developers made a huge stash of ingame items to back up the currency? No. They didn't. They layed down guidelines such as this = this much of this by setting up NPC traders, and left the players to do the rest. Just because something is useless doesn't mean it cannot be used for currency. Just because there is no huge reserve of useful items as "intrinsic value" for the currency doesn't mean people won't trade with it. People will trade with it because it is common knowledge that you can sell X for N amount of the currency, and then use that to buy Y.
Look at runescape's trading system; they have currency and items.
People can trade with items if they want, but using the currency that is already in the game is easier as it removes the need for bartering. The currency is accepted globally and can be used for buying and selling regardless of its actual use or practical worth. It is a token.
[editline]03:30AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Glent;23507158]Your avatar is a diamond, I'll assume your an elitist prick who I'll never know because you only hang out with the cool rocks.[/QUOTE]
My avatar is a diamond, you can assume that I am sharp and almost unbreakable!
Diamond is usually found in normal, boring stone. Which isn't a cool rock, and sometimes near places where there is lava! People don't like hanging around lava because it is dangerous. But I do! I am also made from carbon that has been exposed to large amounts of pressure, and carbon is not a very "cool" material when it's found in the ground. Graphite is fairly boring, yet I still hang around with it! It's my parents and I love it. So I'm not an elitist prick.
:eng101:
Oh fuck you, Azur. I don't care about what you think about me from my name and my avatar. I'm not sure what part of my (mostly-correct, as far as I know) explanation of the US gold reserve is giving you this impression. Can anyone else confirm that I'm at least on the right track with what I'm saying about token value and the currency system?
[editline]03:32AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Azur;23507184]Take an MMO as an example.[/QUOTE]
Not the same. In MMOs, you can't melt down the coins and make weapons of varying strength from them.
[editline][/editline]
I agree my name is a little childish, but then again, I chose it when I was a child (it's a name I've used for my accounts since 2004-2005, I didn't feel like changing it at that time.) Fuck it, I try to act mature enough that people don't care about my name, and except for you, it seems I have been mature enough.
So wait, instead of putting forth arguments you're calling him out because of his avatar and his name? Really?
Edit : Directed at you, Azur.
[QUOTE=MrBob1337;23507204]
Not the same. In MMOs, you can't melt down the coins and make weapons of varying strength from them.[/QUOTE]
:wtc: Why would you make a diamond sword / pickaxe / hatchet / hoe / helmet / etc? It'd be the most useless piece of crap there is (apart for ceremonial value, of course).
What does that even have to do with the fact that people trade with valueless tokens? It changes nothing.
You really are missing the point here. I don't know why I'm bothering.
[QUOTE=Azur;23507298]:wtc: Why would you make a diamond sword / pickaxe / hatchet / hoe / helmet / etc? It'd be the most useless piece of crap there is (apart for ceremonial value, of course).
What does that even have to do with the fact that people trade with valueless tokens? It changes nothing.
You really are missing the point here. I don't know why I'm bothering.[/QUOTE]
Diamond is the strongest material so I can definiatly see the use for someone to use diamonds for crafting armour/tools.
Iron Bars should be currency. Iron is useful, and not as rare as gold.
End of discussion.
[QUOTE=Gregah;23507280]So wait, instead of putting forth arguments you're calling him out because of his avatar and his name? Really?
Edit : Directed at you, Azur.[/QUOTE]
Try reading the posts I made.
The avatar comment was just a passing remark as it was beginning to bug me.
It has no weight on the argument at hand and shouldn't be considered part of the discussion of gold as a currency.
[QUOTE=Gregah;23507319]Diamond is the strongest material so I can definiatly see the use for someone to use diamonds for crafting armour/tools.[/QUOTE]
Not in real life, which is what he is referring to, which is retarded because diamond is the strongest material in game, which is what you are saying.
[QUOTE=Uberman77883;23507320]Iron Bars should be currency. Iron is useful, and not as rare as gold.
End of discussion.[/QUOTE]
Profanewolf has said that he will spawn shitload of gold for currency so availability is not the problem.
[editline]04:40AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Azur;23507327]Try reading the posts I made.
The avatar comment was just a passing remark as it was beginning to bug me.
It has no weight on the argument at hand and shouldn't be considered part of the discussion of gold as a currency.[/QUOTE]
So why couldn't you skip out the namecalling then? Because if you have a discussion and you suddenly jump out and call someone an immature prick because of their name and/or avatar, you're using it as an argument.
[QUOTE=Uberman77883;23507320]Iron Bars should be currency. Iron is useful, and not as rare as gold.
End of discussion.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but people make stuff from iron. They're using up currency to make items that inevitably break. The economy would shrink massively as the currency is consumable.
We need a nonconsumable substance as a currency so people would trade it as a token, rather than a resource.
[QUOTE=Uberman77883;23507332]Not in real life, which is what he is referring to, which is retarded because diamond is the strongest material in game, which is what you are saying.[/QUOTE]
He's talking about the tools you can make in the game, so I take it that he's in fact referring to the use of diamonds in the game.
[QUOTE=Azur;23507327]Try reading the posts I made.
The avatar comment was just a passing remark as it was beginning to bug me.
It has no weight on the argument at hand and shouldn't be considered part of the discussion of gold as a currency.[/QUOTE]
Then why did you make it? Seriously, fuck you.
How many other people agree with me, in the "Should gold be part of the currency scale"?
[QUOTE=Gregah;23507341]immature prick[/QUOTE]
Never said that. It was just a passing remark, forget about it already and take part in the actual discussion.
[QUOTE=Azur;23507356]Yeah but people make stuff from iron. They're using up currency to make items that inevitably break. The economy would shrink massively as the currency is consumable.
We need a nonconsumable substance as a currency so people would trade it as a token, rather than a resource.[/QUOTE]
So... Why not use gold? There's no use for gold, and the only use for gold is going to be currency.
[QUOTE=Gregah;23507368]So... Why not use gold? There's no use for gold, and the only use for gold is going to be currency.[/QUOTE]
This is exactly what I've been saying. Did you bother to read?
[QUOTE=Azur;23507366]Never said that. It was just a passing remark, forget about it already and take part in the actual discussion.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Azur;23507109]Your avatar serves as an image for people to judge you on, as it is an expression of your personality.
I get a very bad impression from the name "Mister Bob 1337" and your avatar isn't helping. At the moment I have you down as an annoying 12 / 13 / 14 year old kid who thinks he's a lot more mature than he is.[/QUOTE]
I think calling him "an annoying 12-14 year old kid who thinks he's a lot mature than he is" is the exact same thing as saying "you're an immature prick."
[QUOTE=Gregah;23507396]I hardly think an annoying 12-14 year old kid who thinks he's a lot mature than he is isn't immature.[/QUOTE]
..You hardly think he isn't immature?
I think it would be more efficient to only use gold as a currency. As long as the ore/bar breaks into enough coins, it could be fairly feasible.
[QUOTE=Azur;23507415]..You hardly think he isn't immature?[/QUOTE]
Bad choice of words, what I mean is that you calling him all that is the same thing as just saying "you're an immature prick".
Edit : Ok, I changed the words now.
[QUOTE=Gregah;23507368]So... Why not use gold?[/QUOTE]
I'm saying that for me, at least, I would prefer to be payed in X iron (where X is the amount of iron gold is worth) then 1 gold. I'm pretty sure some other people would agree with me.
[QUOTE=Gregah;23507435]Bad choice of words, what I mean is that you calling him all that is the same thing as just saying "you're an immature prick".
Edit : Ok, I changed the words now.[/QUOTE]
"You're an immature prick" is different to saying "I get the impression that you may be immature but think you are more mature than you are and I find you annoying".
Ok can we please keep the agrumeants civil. If someone does not agree with you then fine. Not call then an idiot.
[QUOTE=MrBob1337;23507463]I'm saying that for me, at least, I would prefer to be payed in X iron (where X is the amount of iron gold is worth) then 1 gold. I'm pretty sure some other people would agree with me.[/QUOTE]
That's called bartering.
Using a consumable item as a currency is not the best of ideas as you would eventually run out completely, and you would be stuck.
Money shouldn't be able to get "used up" in any way, as that can cause great financial difficulty.
You can generally assume that if you have N money in a system, the amount should stay the same, but the value changes.
Think of it as water. Water moves around a lot in ecosystems but never disappears completely (don't count chemical reactions that destroy it, but that's rare in nature anyway).
No, it's wanting to be paid in iron rather than gold. Same amount of 'token value' being transferred, but (for me, at least) iron is far more valuable then gold. Bartering would be wanting to pay someone 64 pork instead of the gold, and negotiating with the seller.
[QUOTE=Azur;23507389]This is exactly what I've been saying. Did you bother to read?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, you started talking about using the different ores (coal / iron / gold / diamond) as currency, and then you started ranting about token values etc.
[QUOTE=MrBob1337;23507463]I'm saying that for me, at least, I would prefer to be payed in X iron (where X is the amount of iron gold is worth) then 1 gold. I'm pretty sure some other people would agree with me.[/QUOTE]
Well, yeah. I think people are going to use both regular currency and just giving people raw material for their work.
[QUOTE=Azur;23507475]"You're an immature prick" is different to saying "I get the impression that you may be immature but think you are more mature than you are and I find you annoying".[/QUOTE]
You didn't say you "think" he's that though, you said your impression of him is an immature prick. Just because you weave your words to make it seem more diplomatic doesn't make it so. Really, just agree to disagree if you have such a hard time to understand eachother, or take the discussion in PMs.
[editline]04:51AM[/editline]
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[QUOTE=MrBob1337;23507513]No, it's wanting to be paid in iron rather than gold. Same amount of 'token value' being transferred, but (for me, at least) iron is far more valuable then gold. Bartering would be wanting to pay someone 64 pork instead of the gold, and negotiating with the seller.[/QUOTE]
Bartering is coming to an agreement that an amount of an item is equal in value to an amount of another item, without using a currency that has a globally accepted value.
Asking for your payment in iron is the same as asking for it in pork, mushrooms, daisies, TNT, live creepers or wool. You're not using the currency but instead coming to a different trade agreement.
If we establish the currency scale as coal->iron->gold->diamond or something, and that's globally accepted, then X iron = 1 gold. Same value.
If something costs 1 dollar, and I give someone 4 quarters or 10 dimes, am I bartering? No.
That's beside the point. All I tried to say is that I think iron is more valuable than gold, no matter what the currency scale is.
[editline]03:58AM[/editline]
If we establish the currency scale as coal->iron->gold->diamond or something, and that's globally accepted, then X iron = 1 gold. Same value.
If something costs 1 dollar, and I give someone 4 quarters or 10 dimes, am I bartering? No.
That's beside the point. All I tried to say is that I think iron is more valuable than gold, no matter what the currency scale is.
All I was saying is that over time currency will come to have a value because it's accepted globally, and people know they can buy 5 pork chops for one coin or whatever, without having to take into account if saplings or seeds are worth more or less.
Currency comes to have a value over time not because there is a huge reserve of a useful material associated with it, but because it can be used to buy anything, anywhere, and the value is pretty much constant.
Using a consumable item as currency (or an extremely useful one such as iron, at least) wouldn't work as it would be crafted into items etc, and then there'd be no iron bars left to use as currency (unless markus adds a de-crafting table).
And I also mentioned that I found you annoying / immature, but that's irrelevant.
[QUOTE=MrBob1337;23507104]What knowledge have you shown? You just keep saying "lol token value" and don't seem to understand I am no longer talking about a physical reserve, but instead talking about gold and it's respective vaule. You are acting like an asshole, you are pretending to know about economics, and I don't feel like I want to continue arguing with you. All I am saying (now, at least) is that gold is less useful than iron, and this should be reflected in the currency scale.
As to my economic knowledge, the US dollar is backed up by a gold reserve, which allows partial control of inflation (though some does occur due to the variable price of gold).
PS: Token value is not an actual term. I'm not sure what you meant for me to learn by telling me to Google it, facepuke.[/QUOTE]
No, the US dollar is not backed by anything at all. The only thing that gives it value is that you can buy things with it. Kind of circular, but it works.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_dollar#Fiat_standard[/url]
[QUOTE=MrBob1337;23507674]
If something costs 1 dollar, and I give someone 4 quarters or 10 dimes, am I bartering? No.
[/quote]
No it's not, because you're using a currency as opposed to trading with goods alone.
[QUOTE=MrBob1337;23507674]
All I tried to say is that I think iron is more valuable than gold, no matter what the currency scale is.
[/quote]
It's more useful than gold, as you can make things from it. If iron ends up being more expensive than gold, then all it means is the scale would be shifted slightly. As it stands, iron is a lot more common, and therefore its value is diminished regardless of its usefulness. You could argue the exact same for coal or wood.
Gold is more valuable than iron in real life for the simple fact that it is a rare metal. It has little use other than looking nice and not corroding easily, whereas iron is used worldwide in more industries than I can think of. Iron is still a hell of a lot cheaper even though it's more useful.
You double posted, by the way.
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