Minecraft MP Survival City V2 - Games

ok guys instead of talking about our minecraft city lets just bitch and whine to each other!

[QUOTE=SamPerson123;23507841]No, the US dollar is not backed by anything at all. The only thing that gives it value is that you can buy things with it. Kind of circular, but it works. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_dollar#Fiat_standard[/url][/QUOTE] That's a nice way of summarising how currency works. "The only thing that gives it value is that you can buy things with it". I like it.

You are saying things about stuff about which you have no knowledge. The US dollar is not valuable because people will take your dollar. It is because the US government backs it up with something that, for as long as humans have been civilized, has been valuable - gold [b](or not, I just read that)[/b] Most people do not think about that, and to them it seems like it is valuable due to it's acceptance, but that's an illusion. (this is not true, see above). I have no fucking idea what is keeping the world's money from just losing value, and as I don't plan to major in economics, I probably never will. But right now, I am talking about how I would prefer to be using iron. Yes, immediate stocks of iron may fluctuate as resources are used up in each chunk, but there will always be more (MP will be infinite, you saw it in Notch's video.) Also, for something that you claim is irrelevant, you seem to post "I find you annoying/immature" quite a lot.

[QUOTE=MrBob1337;23507863]The US dollar is not valuable because people will take your dollar. It is because the US government backs it up with something that, for as long as humans have been civilized, has been valuable - gold.[/QUOTE] [quote=Wikipedia]Today, like the currency of most nations, the dollar is fiat money, unbacked by any physical asset[/quote]

I edited my post, I can read too.

[QUOTE=ITokez;23507859]ok guys instead of talking about our minecraft city lets just bitch and whine to each other![/QUOTE] We are talking about the city. Just the currency part.

[QUOTE=MrBob1337;23507863]I have no fucking idea what is keeping the dollar up, and as I don't plan to major in economics, I probably never will. [/QUOTE] :suicide: [QUOTE=MrBob1337;23507863]But right now, I am talking about how I would prefer to be using iron. Yes, immediate stocks of iron may fluctuate as resources are used up in each chunk, but there will always be more (MP will be infinite, you saw it in Notch's video.)[/QUOTE] When the iron runs out, it's gone. Currency works because people use it. If you prefer to trade in physical goods rather than currency, then it's bartering. Gold makes more sense to be currency as it is not as readily consumable as iron, has an essence of value (it's considered valuable in real life even though it's useless), and also because it's a nice cliché. If you begin to play an RPG, you would expect the currency to be gold coins, as gold is seen as valuable by most people, and not coins made of meat, or water, or anything else that is useful. Consumable currencies would cause the economy to crash very quickly when the stuff gets used up. MP is currently infinite, but Markus will be adding the option to have fixed-size maps to be easier on server storage space usage, so the iron isn't infinite. [editline]04:16AM[/editline] [QUOTE=MrBob1337;23507967]I edited my post, I can read too.[/QUOTE] I posted that before you edited. (Or at least I started typing it beforehand)

How about instead of assigning an arbitrary value to all items beforehand, y'all just trade items based on the value placed on them by the seller, buyer, and current state of the world? You know, wing it instead of setting in numerical values that are just going to be haggled and made obsolete by fluctuating resource availability and fluctuating standards of labor? [editline]09:20PM[/editline] or just play communist minecraft. Otherwise imagine all the disputes you people are going to have over the ownership and value of land

[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;23508084]How about instead of assigning an arbitrary value to all items beforehand, y'all just trade items based on the value placed on them by the seller, buyer, and current state of the world? You know, wing it instead of setting in numerical values that are just going to be haggled and made obsolete by fluctuating resource availability and fluctuating standards of labor?[/QUOTE] You need a starting point if you are to have a currency. The rarity of the ores serves a good enough base to begin from.

Let's use a renewable resource, like seeds, wheat, food, or mob drops as our currency. Hell, we could trade services, even.

What was the [noparse]:suicide:[/noparse] emote for? I don't understand how the money could "self-support" itself (that is, keep it's value up by having value) for so long. I mean, I understand it theoretically, but it just seems kinda fragile. Gold would be fine as money as long as everyone understood that it is not meant as actual value, but instead as a placeholder. I know that's what you've been saying all along, but it seems like it wouldn't be accepted very well. And as to the infinite thing, it all depends on whether our server will be infinite. I believe profanwolf has the answer, he's around here somewhere. Maybe he'll be on tomorrow.

I am for a gold based economy. It would be best to have a currency in addition to bartering, because it can make some transactions a bit easier. Gold would be good as a currency because it is rare and useless, so any fluctuations from finding more or using some up would be small and easy to correct. My plan for starting up the economy would be to cheat in a whole bunch of gold, which the government can pay the citizens to build up the city. The gold then sort of represents the work that was required to earn it, and gives the people a good supply, meaning that trade can begin relatively quickly. Should gold become too plentiful, then the government can cheat in resources to sell for the gold, reducing the supply. If there isn't enough gold, then the government can make more jobs.

[QUOTE=Azur;23508117]You need a starting point if you are to have a currency. The rarity of the ores serves a good enough base to begin from.[/QUOTE] Yes: the starting point is the value of the item assigned to it by the seller and buyer. Minecraft MP isn't even out yet, the only way to know the value of items is after the items have gained value through being created or worked from the land. Wing it when MP comes out and a system of values will evolve by consensus.

[QUOTE=Azur;23508021] When the iron runs out, it's gone. Currency works because people use it. If you prefer to trade in physical goods rather than currency, then it's bartering. Gold makes more sense to be currency as it is not as readily consumable as iron, has an essence of value (it's considered valuable in real life even though it's useless), and also because it's a nice cliché. If you begin to play an RPG, you would expect the currency to be gold coins, as gold is seen as valuable by most people, and not coins made of meat, or water, or anything else that is useful. Consumable currencies would cause the economy to crash very quickly when the stuff gets used up. [/QUOTE] While this may be true, gold is, quite honestly, quite a hastle to get a hold of and would likely be held by a select few--those who actually mine it. As much as a barter system differs from a currency based one, I think that it would likely be best for the server because it allows people to diversify what they do---some would farm, others would hunt.. If gold was a currency, or rather, the only currency, the only incentive people would have would be to mine.

[QUOTE=mrcole92;23508169]While this may be true, gold is, quite honestly, quite a hastle to get a hold of and would likely be held by a select few--those who actually mine it.[/QUOTE] Not if they mine it off land owned by somebody else :eng101: i can't wait to work my miners into functional slavery by paying them in scrip that can only be spent at my company store

[QUOTE=Uberman77883;23507332]Not in real life, which is what he is referring to, which is retarded because diamond is the strongest material in game, which is what you are saying.[/QUOTE] Uh... diamond is the hardest natural material known to man.

[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;23508200]Not if they mine it off land owned by somebody else :eng101: i can't wait to work my miners into functional slavery by paying them in scrip that can only be spent at my company store[/QUOTE] Yes, to start working you will need to buy a pickaxe. Oh, what's that? Do you not have enough money? We can loan you some... :smug:

[QUOTE=SamPerson123;23508226]Oh yes, to start working you will need to buy a pickaxe. Oh, do you not have enough money? We can loan you some... :smug:[/QUOTE] basically what you're gonna get is a land-rush outwards from the city in search of virgin, un-owned land I say don't plan out your city as strictly as outlined in the OP. Cities need to be organic. If you outline your city from the beginning, you're gonna end up with a minecraft version of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebration,_Florida]Celebration, Florida[/url], all saccharine and devoid of character.

[QUOTE=MrBob1337;23508126]What was the [noparse]:suicide:[/noparse] emote for? I don't understand how the money could "self-support" itself (that is, keep it's value up by having value) for so long. I mean, I understand it theoretically, but it just seems kinda fragile. Gold would be fine as money as long as everyone understood that it is not meant as actual value, but instead as a placeholder. I know that's what you've been saying all along, but it seems like it wouldn't be accepted very well. And as to the infinite thing, it all depends on whether our server will be infinite. I believe profanwolf has the answer, he's around here somewhere. Maybe he'll be on tomorrow.[/QUOTE] You were arguing so hard an argument you then admitted to knowing nothing about.. Yes. The economy is very fragile - just take a look at what's happened to it now: global recession. Gold would be fine as money as long as everyone understood that it is merely a token. This is how currency works anyway. People accept that those little bits of paper aren't worth a thing, but they can use them to get nice stuff because everyone trades with them. Currency only works if everyone uses it. People only trade in dollars / pounds / yen because people will trade in it. It's an interesting idea, and a very circular one. [editline]04:31AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Glent;23508209]Uh... diamond is the hardest natural material known to man.[/QUOTE] Nope. Wurtzite boron nitride and Lonsdaleite are both harder than diamond.

[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;23508200]Not if they mine it off land owned by somebody else :eng101: i can't wait to work my miners into functional slavery by paying them in scrip that can only be spent at my company store[/QUOTE] I can't see ANYONE mining in some place they don't own. --SNip-[URL="http://minecraft.net/skin/skin.jsp?user=Glent"][/URL]

[QUOTE=SamPerson123;23508164]I am for a gold based economy. It would be best to have a currency in addition to bartering, because it can make some transactions a bit easier. Gold would be good as a currency because it is rare and useless, so any fluctuations from finding more or using some up would be small and easy to correct. My plan for starting up the economy would be to cheat in a whole bunch of gold, which the government can pay the citizens to build up the city. The gold then sort of represents the work that was required to earn it, and gives the people a good supply, meaning that trade can begin relatively quickly. Should gold become too plentiful, then the government can cheat in resources to sell for the gold, reducing the supply. If there isn't enough gold, then the government can make more jobs.[/QUOTE] That's a nice way of maintaining economic stability, but it would be a hell of a lot more fun to let the economy crash, and everyone resort to barbarianism! :black101:

[QUOTE=Glent;23508295]I can't see ANYONE mining in some place they don't own. [/QUOTE] But if all the land within a several hour walk from the city is owned by those who arrive first, then recently arrived players will have no choice. (this is why i support minecraft communism)

[QUOTE=Glent;23508295]I can't see ANYONE mining in some place they don't own. --SNip-[URL="http://minecraft.net/skin/skin.jsp?user=Glent"] (You can't hide this link, by the way Glent! >:D)[/URL][/QUOTE] Being payed to dig work in a mine, maybe? Whatever you dig goes to the company, but you get to keep 10% of what you mine in addition to your pay. The company could also provide protection. I'd be happy working under those circumstances.

what'll it be? Minecraft wage-slavery or minecraft anarcho-syndicalism?

[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;23508361]But if all the land within a several hour walk from the city is owned by those who arrive first, then recently arrived players will have no choice. (this is why i support minecraft communism)[/QUOTE] How are you going to prevent people from mining wherever the fuck they want?

[QUOTE=Azur;23508334]That's a nice way of maintaining economic stability, but it would be a hell of a lot more fun to let the economy crash, and everyone resort to barbarianism! :black101:[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure the worst that would happen would be people would switch back to a barter system. And everyone's houses would be made of gold.

[QUOTE=Azur;23508373]Being payed to dig work in a mine, maybe? Whatever you dig goes to the company, but you get to keep 10% of what you mine in addition to your pay. The company could also provide protection. I'd be happy working under those circumstances.[/QUOTE] What are they going to pay you? If you mine by yourself you can make your own stuff and keep all of what you mine. Pay is redundant, the ideal situation in minecraft is to be independant.

It seems more fun to watch flame wars than to be in one.

So in this city do we have to live and abide by the Laws (sorry so much talk of currency) and such OR can we simply go outside of the city and set up a personal excavation site and dig for valuable material to then trade with people inside of the city for other items or near same worth (basically digging up 20 diamond and going in to buy 640 smoothed rocks (because i'm too lazy to use a furnace for my shit)) Also i believe the trading system employed in runescape could be used here in having each item worth a certain amout, for those who would like to get more wood by smoothing rocks or creating glass etc

[QUOTE=Glent;23508383]How are you going to prevent people from mining wherever the fuck they want?[/QUOTE] [img]http://www.minecraftwiki.net/images/8/8c/Craftingswordanim2.gif[/img] [editline]04:39AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Glent;23508407]What are they going to pay you? If you mine by yourself you can make your own stuff and keep all of what you mine. Pay is redundant, the ideal situation in minecraft is to be independant.[/QUOTE] You get protection, you're provided with tools, and I can assure you that a team of 10 people is better at finding stuff than just one guy alone.