[QUOTE=Nikota;31152601]Let's just put some standard explanation like "Logistical problems with supplying something that eats a days worth of ammo for a platoon in a minute"[/QUOTE]
Or perhaps that it's 1942 and the MG-42 was issued in 1942 and therefore it would be unlikely that units in the thick of combat would be receiving it. Then again, the MKb 42 is in the game and IMO it would make more sense to have the MG-42 then it would to have the MKb 42 or MP-40/II (they seriously oughta just give the German assault heroes PPShs ala Steiner.)
[editline]16th July 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=bobsynergy;31155149]Yeah I was about to respond and tell you that, looking at this photo
[img]http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/dokumente/IR541942.jpg[/img]
The MG-42 was used in Stalingrad but the MG-34 was WAY more common, also the original mod did NOT have a MG-42 during it's initial release either but was added in later, I have no doubt they will do that again.
Also funny photoshop of that picture, spot the difference.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/X34vz.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
MKb 42. Lol.
Wow, the forums are a god damn mess right now, with long time players and new complaining when they never even played it. Don't they realize yet that the long time players who have played the beta love it?
Then you have a ignorant blog post by that HeyCarnut guy [url]http://pcgamingtips.blogspot.com/2011/07/i-dont-believe-hype.html[/url]
Some of the stuff he says is completely bullshit like "why are they releasing the beta near close to release, shouldn't it be already under heavy testing hurr" when RO2 has been in beta testing for months.
Or like "hurr the community is shit because the community downvotes people on gametrailers because they say the graphics suck" yeah I know, I like to judge graphics on cam footage to.
And then to top it all off, "hurr I was invited to the beta to see for my self but I declined because I hate the community" yeah man hes sick, he declines a beta key and instead goes to complain about a game he has never even played yet.
One of the devs responded with this [quote]Somebody is a little miffed that the forums didn't treat him to well.[img]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img] [/quote]
Good to know that the devs don't take the bullshit people tell them and respond to stand up for themselves, they knew that article was completely stupid and they pointed that out. All the people complaining about stupid things are dumb asses, what other dev are they going to that offers all those old pc features and support and community interaction and free DLC for this type of game?
We get a company that actually cares for once and decides to put all these extra amazing features in and actually work hard on the game and putting a shit ton of detail into damn everything and even charge $40 for it because they know all those recent games are not worth $60 for what little they do and people still find something to complain about. Fucken disgusting if you ask me.
Well the gaming community isn't really known for it's great mind's. Hopefully the developers know how much they're actually appreciated.
Tripwire has devs who are gamers like you and me.
[QUOTE=bobsynergy;31176935]
Then you have a ignorant blog post by that HeyCarnut guy [url]http://pcgamingtips.blogspot.com/2011/07/i-dont-believe-hype.html[/url][/QUOTE]
Oh shit, he's got a blog. He must be telling the truth :v:
I think a few of the things TW has done are BS (bayonets and 72 round drums as unlocks, even though they are standard issue equipment), but it doesn't really shake my confidence that RO2 is still going to be the best MP shooter of the year.
[quote]with long time players and new complaining when they never even played it.[/quote]
To be fair, who wants to play the game, only to find out that the new features are terrible, then needing to wait another 5 years until the next RO game comes out?
It's always best to voice your criticisms before the game releases, when there's still time to make significant changes. As much as I respect TW, they shouldn't be trying to alienate their core fanbase, as those are the people who supported their mod in it's infantile stages, and without them there wouldn't have been a TWI or ROOST. You can abide by the "if we build it, they will come" logic, but I've seen many mods rightfully tank because of that sentiment. If you treat your fanbase as if they are arbitrary, you may just find yourself without any servers or frequent players.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;31155086]Oh fuck I'm stupid, the MG42 probably wasn't even used that much in Stalingrad.[/QUOTE]
I love how they are [B]all over the place[/B] in Call of Duty 2.
[QUOTE=proch;31177215]I love how they are [B]all over the place[/B] in Call of Duty 2.[/QUOTE]
Though, given the fact that the MKB and AVT are in the game, they may as well step over realism and just implement the MG42. I mean, those two guns would have been far more rare than the MG42. But as bobsynergy said, they'll likely do it in the update.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;31177174]Oh shit, he's got a blog. He must be telling the truth :v:
[b]I think a few of the things TW has done are BS (bayonets and 72 round drums as unlocks, even though they are standard issue equipment), but it doesn't really shake my confidence that RO2 is still going to be the best MP shooter of the year.[/b]
To be fair, who wants to play the game, only to find out that the new features are terrible, then needing to wait another 5 years until the next RO game comes out?
It's always best to voice your criticisms before the game releases, when there's still time to make significant changes. As much as I respect TW, they shouldn't be trying to alienate their core fanbase, as those are the people who supported their mod in it's infantile stages, and without them there wouldn't have been no TWI or ROOST. You can abide by the "if we build it, they will come" logic, but I've seen many mods rightfully tank because of that sentiment. If you treat your fanbase as if they are arbitrary, you may just find yourself without any servers or frequent players.[/QUOTE]
The part I bolded is what bothers me also, there is so much assumption from a dev who hasn't (as far as I known) ever disappointed their fan base and has listened to him, there is a very large lack of faith for TW. Like one of the devs responded to the baynet and drums unlock with this:
[quote]It's standard issue yes and that's what the realism servers are for In true to life history Bayonets and drum mags are standard issue but in a game (relaxed realism mode) it's something you gain from experience. I don't see where the issue is. To but it simply we're catering to two different sides of the fence. There's one side that wants load outs standard issue equipment and that's important to them and their experience. We offer that. Then there's the other side of the fence that only cares to feel like their in a real war, use real tactics and is fine with abstracting certain elements to make the game fun and addictive like progression, becoming a hero and getting to use rare gear that only a select few would ever get there hands on. In real life there are hero's people of exception skill and respected by their fellow soldiers, our goal is to capture that. All while still keeping the game play realistic and true to RO's form. For better or worse we always try to push things and take risks. This is one of them and we'll be watching it closely to see how it's received once the game is released.[/quote]
See they are not unlocks in a realism server, people keep assuming Tripwire are stupid and don't know what they are doing but they know how to cater to both modes and communities properly, they are not abandoning their core fanbase by any means, it's just their recent marketing which is catering right now to lure new people in which is why it seems that way.
Again, someone on the forums complained about how hard is it going to be to find those RO Realism servers that give you that core feel of Red Orchestra and that same dev responded saying he liked that idea. See they listen and respect the fan base, they know exactly what they are doing, I'm also going to leave posts by that exact same dev here just to show how they still are the same and they care (this is the creative director by the way)
[quote]One thing we ask the Community to do is make their final judgement on the unlocks after they play the game. It saddens me to think that some of our long time community members believe we've sold out or are trying to cater to the masses. It would have been way easier to not add unlocks or weapon upgrades into the project but we really believed it would take the experience to the next level. One very important thing we've done is make all the player progression very subtle so that it doesn't feel gamey or give anyone an unfair edge which is something that's not been done before, it has the RO twist to it. People that don't want unlocks can play or setup their server the way they choose to so all this new stuff doesn't have to even get in the way if they dislike it.
Someday we'll have to share the story on just what it took to make this game a reality. Tripwire is the same as it's always been, we're small, independent and pure our heart and soul into what we make. Our goal is to have an experience online that you can't find anywhere else that's the bottom line![/quote]
They are shocked the same way I am about how little faith people have in them. Yes it would of been 100x better if we got this information sooner instead of not saying anything but no reason to think TW has sold out or not cared about them anymore, I'm not saying that's your viewpoint but it's a lot of peoples right now.
Well ofcourse people are not trusting Tripwire, they've not made that many games and they are seemingly experimenting with their sequel. We have the right to be worried.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;31177495]Well ofcourse people are not trusting Tripwire, they've not made that many games and they are seemingly experimenting with their sequel. We have the right to be worried.[/QUOTE]
Who isn't trusting Tripwire? What have I missed?
People are questioning all of the stuff they're showing off with HoS.
I've even missed new information?
Could you give an example?
[editline]17th July 2011[/editline]
Or I could read a page or two back, I guess.
The only thing that worries me about the unlocks is how long it will take. It takes hundreds of hours to reach max level in everything for Killing Floor, and that is absolutely retarded. I hope they don't make the same mistake twice.
[QUOTE=Cutts;31069769]Have they said anything about the class amounts in the game? etc. 12 riflemen, 2 machine gunners.
I really hope that they increase the amount of snipers in the game, if only just to 2. I always found it weird in RO only having 1 sniper per team. Sure, if you were alright with the rifleman class then you could kill people just as far away, but I think snipers are one of the most important classes in the game. I've been able to keep an entire squad of germans behind cover before, simply because they knew that if they came out they'd get shot. Having 2 per team would just make it more enjoyable for the players, and would also provide better strategic abilities for both teams.[/QUOTE]
No. The last thing this game needs is more snipers. If you want to keep a battlefield dynamic you need to limit the amount of machine guns and snipers that are fielded. Otherwise it devolves into a COD-like camperfest, and nobody wants that.
Well, I do like the base concept of the Hero mechanic and the idea of experience. Maybe Im uninformed, but from what I gather I either have to play "realism" that has none of that, or play "relaxed" which has too much of that. There's no middleground. I like the idea of small numbers of rare weapons, I like Heroes, but I dislike the way TW is saying they are executing these systems.
[quote] They are shocked the same way I am about how little faith people have in them. Yes it would of been 100x better if we got this information sooner instead of not saying anything but no reason to think TW has sold out or not cared about them anymore, I'm not saying that's your viewpoint but it's a lot of peoples right now.
[/quote]
Can you think of a game feature you didnt like in any one of your favorite games?
Ill just make an example: Level scaling in Oblivion, hands down one of the most hated features by all the fans of the game, a good 90% of people hate it and I haven't heard a positive opinion of it at any time by anybody whos actually played the game. Do you think bethesda game studios implemented that feature because they thought it was a [I]bad[/I] idea? No, they thought it was a [I]good[/I] idea. The scary thing is, Im sure if you go back and find posts in 2005 about it, you'd see people saying the same things as you are now. Im not promoting blind skepticism here, but its rightful to be wary of developers decisions, because throughout game history there have been more than a handful of really bad decision choices implemented into just about every game.
Its just that sometimes, an idea may seem good in your head, but when you play the game for a few years, and let it sink in, you may realize that it was a poor design choice and would have been better without it. People make mistakes and Ive seen it happen many times first hand, I cant imagine RO2 being a spotless exception. These few changes that are coming into question are going to be far from game-ruining decisions, but nonetheless they are entirely unnecessary and/or they could have been done better.
Im going to steer clear of the bellyaching on the forums because I dont really feel strongly enough about it to inevitably offend the developers, but that said, I think its good people are criticizing them for it. If nobody criticized them, then they would have no conception that they could possibly be doing something wrong. Regardless of how you feel on a subject, getting a second, opposing opinion is going to shape, strengthen and reinforce your own ideas when you analyze the opinions of others. Hopefully they actually assess some of the more mature and thought-out criticism rather than arrogantly ignore it.
RO2 is a fun game.
[QUOTE=Zips;31177888]RO2 is a fun game.[/QUOTE]Thank you for clearing this up, argument over.
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;31177657]The only thing that worries me about the unlocks is how long it will take. It takes hundreds of hours to reach max level in everything for Killing Floor, and that is absolutely retarded. I hope they don't make the same mistake twice.
No. The last thing this game needs is more snipers. If you want to keep a battlefield dynamic you need to limit the amount of machine guns and snipers that are fielded. Otherwise it devolves into a COD-like camperfest, and nobody wants that.[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
Battlefield can handle freedom of class choice because all the classes are equally balanced (or are at least intended to be)
RO's balancing comes in the numbers.. some classes serve a more important role than others, and if that's the case, then there's less of those classes. Sniper was easily the most mercilessly destructive class in the game. If you failed to rack up more than 30 kills per game as a sniper, you were playing wrong.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;31177825]Well, I do like the base concept of the Hero mechanic and the idea of experience. Maybe Im uninformed, but from what I gather I either have to play "realism" that has none of that, or play "relaxed" which has too much of that. There's no middleground. I like the idea of small numbers of rare weapons, I like Heroes, but I dislike the way TW is saying they are executing these systems.
Can you think of a game feature you didnt like in any one of your favorite games?
Ill just make an example: Level scaling in Oblivion, hands down one of the most hated features by all the fans of the game, a good 90% of people hate it and I haven't heard a positive opinion of it at any time by anybody whos actually played the game. Do you think bethesda game studios implemented that feature because they thought it was a [I]bad[/I] idea? No, they thought it was a [I]good[/I] idea. The scary thing is, Im sure if you go back and find posts in 2005 about it, you'd see people saying the same things as you are now. Im not promoting blind skepticism here, but its rightful to be wary of developers decisions, because throughout game history there have been more than a handful of really bad decision choices implemented into just about every game.
Its just that sometimes, an idea may seem good in your head, but when you play the game for a few years, and let it sink in, you may realize that it was a poor design choice and would have been better without it. People make mistakes and Ive seen it happen many times first hand, I cant imagine RO2 being a spotless exception. These few changes that are coming into question are going to be far from game-ruining decisions, but nonetheless they are entirely unnecessary and/or they could have been done better.
Im going to steer clear of the bellyaching on the forums because I dont really feel strongly enough about it to inevitably offend the developers, but that said, I think its good people are criticizing them for it. If nobody criticized them, then they would have no conception that they could possibly be doing something wrong. Regardless of how you feel on a subject, getting a second, opposing opinion is going to shape, strengthen and reinforce your own ideas when you analyze the opinions of others. Hopefully they actually assess some of the more mature and thought-out criticism rather than arrogantly ignore it.[/QUOTE]
*Indeed, but an opinion from some apeshit douche that hasn't even tested the game isn't the best thing to listen to.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;31177825]Well, I do like the base concept of the Hero mechanic and the idea of experience. Maybe Im uninformed, but from what I gather I either have to play "realism" that has none of that, or play "relaxed" which has too much of that. There's no middleground. I like the idea of small numbers of rare weapons, I like Heroes, but I dislike the way TW is saying they are executing these systems.
Can you think of a game feature you didnt like in any one of your favorite games?
Ill just make an example: Level scaling in Oblivion, hands down one of the most hated features by all the fans of the game, a good 90% of people hate it and I haven't heard a positive opinion of it at any time by anybody whos actually played the game. Do you think bethesda game studios implemented that feature because they thought it was a [I]bad[/I] idea? No, they thought it was a [I]good[/I] idea. The scary thing is, Im sure if you go back and find posts in 2005 about it, you'd see people saying the same things as you are now. Im not promoting blind skepticism here, but its rightful to be wary of developers decisions, because throughout game history there have been more than a handful of really bad decision choices implemented into just about every game.
Its just that sometimes, an idea may seem good in your head, but when you play the game for a few years, and let it sink in, you may realize that it was a poor design choice and would have been better without it. People make mistakes and Ive seen it happen many times first hand, I cant imagine RO2 being a spotless exception. These few changes that are coming into question are going to be far from game-ruining decisions, but nonetheless they are entirely unnecessary and/or they could have been done better.
Im going to steer clear of the bellyaching on the forums because I dont really feel strongly enough about it to inevitably offend the developers, but that said, I think its good people are criticizing them for it. If nobody criticized them, then they would have no conception that they could possibly be doing something wrong. Regardless of how you feel on a subject, getting a second, opposing opinion is going to shape, strengthen and reinforce your own ideas when you analyze the opinions of others. Hopefully they actually assess some of the more mature and thought-out criticism rather than arrogantly ignore it.[/QUOTE]
No arguing that
The Oblivion example was good, and there were probably posts like mine about that but there is a bit of a difference, Bethesda thought it was a good idea, while Tripwire thinks it is a good idea that adds to the game about being that one veteran soldier who gets to use a experimental weapon but Tripwire have said that it is mainly a experiment, if the community likes it they will keep it for future titles or if the community hates how it handles in game (during the beta probably) they will probably try to make a adjustment based on the criticism or completely remove it from future games. Even Bethesda took note of the criticism and toned it down in Skyrim.
Some of the criticism has been good for the forums, like the criticism has got them to tell us about how realism servers will have the drum and the bayonet already yeah it's good, considering they have not really balanced between info for new players and the faithful as they have been trying to lure in new people the whole time really. They put to much confidence in their fanbase expecting them to completely trust them which is why they were probably shocked but I doubt they are going to keep making that mistake and have learned. Then though you have the retarded stupid criticism like HeyCarnuts also the way some of the good criticism has been is kind of unnecessary but has sent them the message the RO community would like as much information regarding to how it plays realistically and RO like just as much as Tripwire are giving to people who are interested but never played the first.
So...I'm confused from the argument on the previous page, should I still get Red Orchestra or should I pass on it?
Just sent an email to Tripwire, hopefully I'll get into the friends and family beta.
[QUOTE=proch;31178051]*Indeed, but an opinion from some apeshit douche that hasn't even tested the game isn't the best thing to listen to.[/QUOTE]
And I agree with that, there's plenty of that.. but whos to say that they are actually evaluating legitimate opinions. Rather than accept criticism and potentially have their feelings hurt, many people may have a tenancy to arrogantly blow them off. Its hard to say, but about half of the threads pertaining to the topics of rare guns, heroes, experiences, etc, get closed before they reach the second page.. even if there's no blatant flaming.
Granted, I guess some dickheads are to blame when they walk into the thread and shit all over the developers in a single post. Makes it hard to actually put in a good post and have it read when theres some people that prefer the offensive amplitude of their post over the quality of their post.
[editline]17th July 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pedro the Fuzzy;31178156]So...I'm confused from the argument on the previous page, should I still get Red Orchestra or should I pass on it?[/QUOTE]
Uh, get it?
Most of what people are arguing about is pretty trivial, the game is still going to be icnredibly awesome, and there's no argument about that. If you mean ROOST, its pretty cheap. Can't guarantee you'd like it but if 10 bucks isn't much money to you then it's hard to go wrong.
[QUOTE=Pedro the Fuzzy;31178156]So...I'm confused from the argument on the previous page, should I still get Red Orchestra or should I pass on it?[/QUOTE]
My opinion is, pass up on it. It's not that fun to play public.
[editline]17th July 2011[/editline]
Oh, you're talking about RO2?
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;31177495]Well ofcourse people are not trusting Tripwire, they've not made that many games and they are seemingly experimenting with their sequel. We have the right to be worried.[/QUOTE]
Technically speaking, Killing Floor and Red Orchestra are both sequels to previous releases, and both turned out excellent.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;31178223]My opinion is, pass up on it. It's not that fun to play public.
[editline]17th July 2011[/editline]
Oh, you're talking about RO2?[/QUOTE]
For RO1 it completely depends on the person, I have never played in a realism unit but I find RO public completely fun to play, granted that may change if I played in one but for someone who has probably ever played RO in a realism unit they would find public fun.
Also there is no argument about wither RO2 is going to be good or not, get it, we all agree it is going to be amazing, we are just talking about the criticism.
[QUOTE=Reimu;31178303]Technically speaking, Killing Floor and Red Orchestra are both sequels to previous releases, and both turned out excellent.[/QUOTE]
Well yes, Killing Floor and Red Orchestra were mods from the beginning and stuff, now they're making their first actual game, or so I'd say.
Tripwire could turn all the Russian soldiers into Clowns with bright red wigs and flapping dickeys and I'd probably still buy the game.
Would go well with the clown cars anyways
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;31178167]Just sent an email to Tripwire, hopefully I'll get into the friends and family beta.[/QUOTE]
I'm talking to TWI's Yoshiro in Vent right now, I asked him if there was anything he wanted me to relay to you.
He says, "Shit! I'm not getting the "contact us" mails relayed to my email anymore."
IE: He hasn't yet seen your mail, if you did indeed send one in. :P
[QUOTE=Reimu;31178303]Technically speaking, Killing Floor and Red Orchestra are both sequels to previous releases, and both turned out excellent.[/QUOTE]
Killing Floor is a sequel?
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
