What also bugs me is the mapping. Especially this:
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6240976/dnf_mapping.png[/img]
Hallways like that are everywhere in DNF.
Also conversations where Duke has one or two lines while the other person goes on a massive rant. I don't care if you feel the need to explain things, Duke can take part in that explanation. I don't care if he never said as much in Duke 3D, there were a lot less lines from other characters too and with more of them, there should be a lot more Duke. A factor in modern games is the faceless everyman protagonist, they may say a bit but they are relatable, THAT IS NOT DUKE. You have to feel like you are Duke and there is no better way to capture his massive ego than having him actively participate on the players part.
Also fill the empty corridors with lots of enemies and have the main hubs for Duke to do something Duke-like. Lots of action is good, fill in the blank space with it and fit more Duke into the other bits.
I'm sure someone has said this prior in this thread, but I believe the main reason this game didn't do too well is it shared the name of the Duke Nukem series. This game itself wasn't BAD, but didn't live up to the standards of that of a Duke game. I'm sure if they just changed the name around a bit, the game would have sold much better.
[QUOTE=pod;30629982]I'm sure someone has said this prior in this thread, but I believe the main reason this game didn't do too well is it shared the name of the Duke Nukem series. This game itself wasn't BAD, but didn't live up to the standards of that of a Duke game. I'm sure if they just changed the name around a bit, the game would have sold much better.[/QUOTE]
Tom Bombem?
What happened?
[img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/Picture13.png[/img]
Its the demo from steam.
[QUOTE=Gilboron;30630036]Tom Bombem?[/QUOTE]
Nah, Gil Grenadier.
Incomprehensible ranting go.
I think the reason for a lot of people hating Duke Nukem Forever is that it is simply okay. It's not hilariously bad, nor is it amazingly good, it's just okay. It's kind of like how Waterworld is renowned as one of the worst movies out there, when it actually wasn't that awful, it was just a generic stupid action movie with a big budget.
My point is, if the game was creatively bad, then it would still be fun, just in the same way that an Ed Wood movie can be fun to some. If the game was good, then most people would be satisfied, but what the actual product boils down to is just an average, muddy-coloured shooter littered with pointless scripted events, fairly boring driving sequences and jokes that range from Immature Funniness to painful HEY GUYS THE INTERNET EXISTS ISN'T IT HILARIOUS Unfunniness. While that is certainly enough for some people like myself, it probably seems like a slap in the face to those who wanted something as expansive and unique as Duke Nukem 3D.
Also, just to make me a hypocrite, I am really skeptical about that Duke Nukem 3D Reloaded thing after reading about how much they're changing it. Granted, there are a lot of things that can be improved on from DN3D, but the "Scripted Events and Driving Sequences" statement has me thinking that they'll just force those into the game in an incredibly stupid attempt to make it seem "Modern" and "Like an AAA game" or something. Also, if the media releases are any indication of how far they are in development, there is no goddamn way they are getting that out within the year.
Still, only time will tell.
A lot of the jokes rely on knowing Duke and them coming from him, he is the character they are based around. When the game gets into random subcharacters giving speeches, nothing happening in the combat bits and Duke taking a one-liner literally by only having one line usually, you lose that sense of Duke and it becomes another generic FPS.
It is Duke's game, it has to revolve around him in everything it does.
[QUOTE=pod;30629982]I'm sure someone has said this prior in this thread, but I believe the main reason this game didn't do too well is it shared the name of the Duke Nukem series. This game itself wasn't BAD, but didn't live up to the standards of that of a Duke game. I'm sure if they just changed the name around a bit, the game would have sold much better.[/QUOTE]
Mike Missile: Saves the World?
[url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/3581-Duke-Nukem-Forever-for-real-this-time]As a shocking surprise Yahtzee loves it[/url]
Also I'm amused at the threads past few pages filled with nothing but insults to people who don't like the game. It really does say a lot about it.
I'm still perplexed that people hate it so dearly. It really comes down to this. People look at "14 years of development" and immediately think time = quality.
What the majority never researched or understood was how much time was spent between everything dealing with either legal issues, financial problems or the fact that the company 3D Realms kept losing and gaining new employees. This will set back a production.
So if you built up the anticipation in your head to expect the best game ever because you've been waiting 14 years, there's no way you were EVER going to be pleased by whatever would have been released. Even if it WAS the best game ever, it would never have pleased people with this mentality. Why? Because you're expecting something beyond your comprehension, and you have only yourself to blame for that.
With that said, the hate this game has garnered has more or less taken an emotional disposition more than anything else. Almost a strong representation of the "over entitled" generation we now exist in. People think they were "entitled" to the best game ever and have somehow been betrayed. Sure, maybe the guy that had his pre-order since 1997 may or may not feel that way, but chances are he was going to like it regardless simply on the basis he had his pre-order for 14 years and never canceled it.
The point I'm making is that those of you whom I've seen complaining in this thread about the "quality" of the game in comparison to games of today should really find something else to do. There is the age old quote of "one man's trash, another man's treasure". I happen to find Duke Nukem a refreshing experience because it actually reminds me of gaming in my youth. It reminds of how games were a bit simpler, yet still challenging, and first and foremost, fun.
Not every single shooter needs to follow suit with the "AAA" title that sets some kind of superficial standard and every game of that genre needs to follow the criteria of THAT style of gameplay until someone else suddenly "innovates" and turns every developers head to say "DURR LETS DO DAT CUZ IT WUZ SUCCESFULLL".
I am sick of cover based games. I am sick of looking down sights to aim. Maybe I'm in the minority. I loved Call of Duty MW1, 2, and Black Ops. I still can enjoy Duke Nukem for what it is. I have never once stated DNF is one of the best games of all time. But you know, it's certainly a fun one, and a memorable one. The industry has become this cookie cutter, copy and paste, "imitate what the competitor is doing" industry, and be afraid to take risks outside of the established "franchise" or "atheistic" because everyone is trying to justify their jobs and existence instead of actually moving anything forward in a direction that's worthwhile until there's someone else to copy. It's like any other business related entity or venture now.
So yeah, it was a hell of a risk to release something like DNF in a day and age where it can be held to such a high standard and be perceived as inferior in the eyes of the so called "trusthworthy critics", but in the end it comes down to opinion. And really, admist all the emotion swaying critics and reviewers opinions, somewhere along the way, I think they forgot the main objective of their job. Which is to have fun. This isn't politics. It's video gaming. Get over yourselves. Make up your own mind about things and don't rely on random strangers to tell you whether or not something appeals to [I]you[/I].
[QUOTE=Devodiere;30632049]A lot of the jokes rely on knowing Duke and them coming from him[/QUOTE]
I agree, modern gamers are too young to get the jokes.
[QUOTE=Sift;30634584][url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/3581-Duke-Nukem-Forever-for-real-this-time]As a shocking surprise Yahtzee loves it[/url]
[/QUOTE]
Not sure if serious, seemed to me that he took a dump on it.
[QUOTE=Sift;30634584][url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/3581-Duke-Nukem-Forever-for-real-this-time]As a shocking surprise Yahtzee loves it[/url]
Also I'm amused at the threads past few pages filled with nothing but insults to people who don't like the game. It really does say a lot about it.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't say he loved it. But I may be wrong because I don't get about a half of what he's saying. :v:
I think that DNF turned out just how I wanted it. The gameplay shows that regen health works fine with run and gun (despite what the demo and previews indicated), and the weapons are fun and neat enough that you don't really feel bored shooting at things, even with the two weapon limit. Its good enough that it's earned a place on my "good enough to replay" roster, which includes Doom 3, DN3D and Quake 1 and 2. I had already accepted the two weapon limit, linear level design and regen health months ago, so they weren't a problem for me.
One of the things I really liked was the different areas and scenarios. it does kinda petter out in the end, but the Las Vegas section is filled with unique areas that games these days wouldn't dare touch, like Duke Burger, the Hive, the casino (except for Rainbow 6 Vegas >_>), and even the monster truck sequence. After going through Yet Another Military Base/Missile Silo or Third World Town #452, the areas you go through in DNF is a breath of fresh air.
Another issue is the "all or nothing" view gamers seem to have with new games today. Either its the best game ever, or raw shit that you'd only get for $10 on a Steam deal. Its ridiculous and I think its really crippling flawed but good games (like DNF) that should be liked a lot more often. Can you imagine gaming back in the SNES/DOS/Genesis era if that actually happened? We'd be missing out on a ton of great games just because they weren't AAA and you'd be seeing a lot of "worst games ever!!!!!" lists with games that are actually pretty good.
I also think DNF is representative of gamers trying to be perceived as mature. Games are inheriantly going to be silly, no matter how much you try to make it serious. however, this seems to have passed by the pseudo-intellectual types that think their hobby is some sort of art. They want games to be respected and "mature", so they put garbage like the eye-rollingly stupid atomic bomb metaphor in Braid to show that they're super smart and mature they are. When a game like DNF comes along and embraces the inherant sillyness of video games, they get a gigantic stick up their ass and scream and yell at it because it goes against the pseudo-mature and artistic crap that's in games these days. Personally, I love it when games take advantage of being silly and I hope more games embrace it in the future.
I think most of all, however, is that DNF is fun. Frankly, that's all that matters. People are just taking games in general too seriously, and I think DNF is an attempt at telling gamers to stop being so serious and realize what games are supposed to be; fun entertainment. Unfortunately, gamers are so defensive about their hobby that they freak out whenever someone tells them to change something, which resulted in the huge backlash against it.
There's also fun stuff about how DNF is a perfect magnet to see if someone is a self-righteous male wanna-be "feminist". I don't want to sound like a know it all douchebag, so I'll just say that a white male pseudo-intellectuals like Jim Sterling and the idiots in the (now-deleted, thankfully) Something Awful DNF thread trying to lecture the audience and being self-righteous about women's rights and "feminism" (which are apparently all about rape and nothing else) would be a pretty good joke if they wasn't serious. As it is, its just sad.
Basically, DNF is a good game as-is, but its real strength is being a meta-commentary on how low the gaming community has sunk, though of course they think they're all mature and serious. Hopefully DNF will bring more silly non-indie/XBLA games to the forefront, despite what the whiners want.
So, I just thought that I'd give my two cents on this game, and all the hate it's been getting.
Let me start off by saying this. I've never played Duke Nukem 3D. I was born in 1996, and, since I never got to play it, I won't be surprised if people think that it changes what I think of the game at all.
Basically, I think this game is great fun. In this day and age, when the only games being released are the standard, run-of-the-mill, Modern Warfare games (Which I will admit, I do enjoy playing), this game is incredibly refreshing. It does feel like a modern shooter in more than a few ways, but still, this game is something new compared to everything else, what with having a variety of weapons (Albeit not as big as the previous games), and locations already sets it apart from many other games, and the humour, although it's lowbrow, manages to get a laugh out of me from time to time. Also for once in quite a while, I'm playing a game that is actually challenging, but not in the Call of Duty "2 bullets and you're dead way".
Still, I'm not saying that this game is without it's flaws, the graphics are bad, the framerate chugs (Even though I have a good gaming PC), and the aiming feels floaty. However, for what it's worth, I'm having more fun with this game than I've had from a first person shooter in quite a while.
Also, how the hell do you beat the Octoking on hard difficulty :psyduck:
[QUOTE=TheWhiteFox1;30638306]So, I just thought that I'd give my two cents on this game, and all the hate it's been getting.
Let me start off by saying this. I've never played Duke Nukem 3D. I was born in 1996, and, since I never got to play it, I won't be surprised if people think that it changes what I think of the game at all.
Basically, I think this game is great fun. In this day and age, when the only games being released are the standard, run-of-the-mill, Modern Warfare games (Which I will admit, I do enjoy playing), this game is incredibly refreshing. It does feel like a modern shooter in more than a few ways, but still, this game is something new compared to everything else, what with having a variety of weapons (Albeit not as big as the previous games), and locations already sets it apart from many other games, and the humour, although it's lowbrow, manages to get a laugh out of me from time to time. Also for once in quite a while, I'm playing a game that is actually challenging, but not in the Call of Duty "2 bullets and you're dead way".
Still, I'm not saying that this game is without it's flaws, the graphics are bad, the framerate chugs (Even though I have a good gaming PC), and the aiming feels floaty. However, for what it's worth, I'm having more fun with this game than I've had from a first person shooter in quite a while.[/QUOTE]
I agree about the gameplay. I think its a nice blend of modern and classic FPS games that is great to play after being overwhelmed with "two bullets and your dead" crap that modern shooters have been embracing for years. You can still run and gun like a champ, but you don't need to worry about things like trying to conserve unused healthpacks for later or go on a medkit hunting spree after your HP has been taken down to like 15 or 20 points. I think the game uses Pigcops a bit too much, but they're varied and fun to fight, so no biggie.
Just how different is the demo gameplay from the actual game? I just finished the demo and I am pissed. That was some of the worst shooting I've played in years.
I'm going to go play DN3D now.
Is DNF moddable? I would love to play a mod with normal walking speed being the sprint speed and no weapon limit just to see what it would be like.
[QUOTE=Ignhelper;30631004]What happened?
[img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/Picture13.png[/img]
Its the demo from steam.[/QUOTE]
Bump.
[QUOTE=69105;30377768]said it once and will say it again:
[h2]duke nukem 3d was revolutionary[/h2]
build engine was brand new; had realistic visuals for the time, insanely original FPS gameplay stuff and was, like, the first shooter ever to feauture a badass character
nowdays there's nothing revolutionary about dnf. if they made something that truly made the game stand out, like a completely destructible city or something then it would be completely boss as fuck, but alas you are given a linear shitty story, limited weapon weilding, regenerating health and corny one liners from the 90s. that doesn't save a series with an incredibly loyal fanbase to it -- that destroys it.
goodbye, duke. it was fun thinking you were kind of a cool guy. too bad you turned out to be a douchebag[/QUOTE]
I'm into them destructible cities, it sounds just like Duke. :smith: I liked being able to dynamically shatter glass though. :smithicide:
[QUOTE=Larikang;30644765]Just how different is the demo gameplay from the actual game? I just finished the demo and I am pissed. That was some of the worst shooting I've played in years.
I'm going to go play DN3D now.[/QUOTE]
Well, in the demo you start out at a spot where you are already supposed to have weapons from before, but only start out with a pistol and you don't have any ego boosts from before.
[QUOTE=keroba;30636944]I agree, modern gamers are too young to get the jokes.[/QUOTE]
It's not hard to have people get into character, they just need it to be refreshed enough. In a scenario that is out of place for the average person, they're going to not know what to do so they need Duke to show them what he would do. It's not a hard character to get.
[QUOTE=zeldar;30645566]Is DNF moddable? I would love to play a mod with normal walking speed being the sprint speed and no weapon limit just to see what it would be like.[/QUOTE]
With the weapon stuff, would need to change the boxes of infinite ammo. Maybe increase the ammo limit for each gun, make the boxes one time use only and only fill the ammo of the one you have out currently, or a predetermined weapon. Or could just have boxes of ammo more noticeable and remove the ammo dumps completely.
[QUOTE=magicman1234;30645795]I'm into them destructible cities, it sounds just like Duke. :smith: I liked being able to dynamically shatter glass though. :smithicide:[/QUOTE]
Duke Nukem 3D was revolutionary - but not for any single amazing feature. It basically took the formula used by every successful FPS of the time and pushed it further than any other game.
From what I've heard, it seems like that's sort of what they tried to do with DNF except that 1) they didn't make a cohesive product out of it, it's just a mishmash and 2) they neglected the fact that most mainstream FPS games these days are dumbed down consolified pieces of shit and are not worth imitating (slow movement speed, limited carrying capacity, regenerating health, etc.).
I think that a far more successful approach would have been to make DNF a nostalgic reminder of the golden days of PC FPS gaming. If you go back and play DN3D (as I just did) you'll see how starkly different DNF is. DN3D is fast and intense. The levels are small and circuitous (since the single player maps were also used for multiplayer) with lots of secrets. It's about exploration just as much as it's about killing aliens. It's also tough - about four shots from a pig cop can kill you - but this is balanced by your huge array of weapons and items, your freedom of movement, and the wide open levels. It's unlike any FPS today but it's still fun.
tl;dr they should have upgraded DN3D to fit the modern market rather than trying to make a modern FPS starring Duke Nukem.
[QUOTE=bloodshotlol;30646568][img]http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2009/02/sfrender3.jpg[/img]
:c00lbutt:[/QUOTE]
Guile, why is your belt unbuckled?
[QUOTE=AaronM202;30646768]Guile, why is your belt unbuckled?[/QUOTE]
He's getting ready to take you home and make you a family man.
[QUOTE=eatdembeanz;30646820]He's getting ready to take you home and make you a family man.[/QUOTE]
:byodood:
So guys.
I just took back my copy of DNF that I never opened and exchanged it for Starcraft 2, on account of all the bad shit I've been hearing about DNF.
Did I do good?
[QUOTE=Ven Kaeo;30650178]So guys.
I just took back my copy of DNF that I never opened and exchanged it for Starcraft 2, on account of all the bad shit I've been hearing about DNF.
Did I do good?[/QUOTE]
You took it back because of the critics/'what you heard' instead of giving it a go for yourself.
Yep u shure did reel well! :downs:
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