Dota 2 - Newbies, read the OP. Veterans, play Anti-Mage. - Games

[QUOTE=Smashman;34406378]Don't. [img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/emoot/doh.gif[/img][/QUOTE] Real informative pal. Mind reinforcing your statement with some arguments? If a guy wants to have spells bound to keys on his keypad mouse for Invoker, what is wrong with that? QWE fingers stay for orb managment, spells are instantly pre-cooked, guy doesn't have to rely on his memory. Unless Orbs have some sort of inner cooldown (0.1 sec?) and using a macro like that would not enter it all properly, but that depends whether Naga has "wait" function present in macro creation.

[QUOTE=Tokagero;34406496] Unless Orbs have some sort of inner cooldown (0.1 sec?) and using a macro like that would not enter it all properly, but that depends whether Naga has "wait" function present in macro creation.[/QUOTE] Its instant cast. The only cooldown you have to worry about is Invoke.

[QUOTE=Sir Psycho Sexy;34406527]Its instant cast. The only cooldown you have to worry about is Invoke.[/QUOTE] Would it be possible to get mixed benefits then? Like make a macro or a script so that you switch your orbs so fast game has to process all of them, giving you MS, AS, regen and Damage? Or at least so you could have all WEX and switch to EXORT mid projectile flight just for the hit and then go back to WEX. I dislike scripts, but this is interesting.

[QUOTE=Banned?;34396280]Beardy being fucking baller. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOcXpXQTBvM[/media][/QUOTE] i am pro. [editline]26th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Sir Psycho Sexy;34406194]My razer naga came today. [img]http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu217/killstoker/getyourhacksoutforthelads.jpg[/img] Am I doing it right?[/QUOTE] unless each button is macro'd to make it press the correct passive formula and then invoked, then no. [editline]26th January 2012[/editline] also what kind of a nerd uses macro for dota get out.

[QUOTE=Sir Psycho Sexy;34406194]My razer naga came today. [img]http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu217/killstoker/getyourhacksoutforthelads.jpg[/img] Am I doing it right?[/QUOTE]i dont understand how do you get your quas and shit from that

[QUOTE=l l;34407068]i dont understand how do you get your quas and shit from that[/QUOTE] Presumably, each button is bound to hit the right combination of Q, W, and E, then his R and then D to use the spell. Example: 4 would hit QWWRD. [i]Presumably.[/i]

just learn to play him instead of cheating

[QUOTE=bigbundie;34407186]just learn to play him instead of cheating[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=bigbundie;34407186]just learn to play him instead of cheating[/QUOTE] CLICK your items with your MOUSE. Keybinds are cheating. Combine your items on the ground, autocombine is for "non pro". Use only LEGACY keys, otherwise you are not playing true dota! See what I am getting at?

[QUOTE=Tokagero;34407238]CLICK your items with your MOUSE. Keybinds are cheating. Combine your items on the ground, autocombine is for "non pro". Use only LEGACY keys, otherwise you are not playing true dota! See what I am getting at?[/QUOTE] yeah except those are features coded into the game and this is using scripts to do something that a normal human cannot do in regular gameplay. (cheating)

[QUOTE=Tokagero;34407238]CLICK your items with your MOUSE. Keybinds are cheating. Combine your items on the ground, autocombine is for "non pro". Use only LEGACY keys, otherwise you are not playing true dota! See what I am getting at?[/QUOTE] Thats fucking stupid, those are features from the game, macro is totally diferent. Learn to play or get out. Edit; Ninja'd

[QUOTE=Tokagero;34407238]CLICK your items with your MOUSE. Keybinds are cheating. Combine your items on the ground, autocombine is for "non pro". Use only LEGACY keys, otherwise you are not playing true dota! See what I am getting at?[/QUOTE] You're getting at losing a game. Only noobs click their items, nobody combines items on the ground(Closest I've seen anybody do is dropping something to buy multiple parts of an item). Legacy keys, though, sure, that's a good point.

[QUOTE=The Mighty Boat;34407289]yeah except those are features coded into the game and this is using scripts to do something that a normal human cannot do in regular gameplay. (cheating)[/QUOTE] Cheating would be creating a script like the famous script for TF2 pistol (allowed for shooting it at max coded speed, much faster than "average" gamer finger would). Quas, Wex and Exort are already instant and all he will get with such binds is convenience. He still has to press a button (that is on a side of a mouse, easily missable and only operatable with a thumb). Additionally in this case we have hardware with built-in macro software, designed for gaming. If having proper gear is cheating, then I guess well tuned headphones that allow me to hear abilities and proper PC for maximum settings that allows me to notice slightest puff/meld/particle is being Dick Dastardly.

[QUOTE=Tokagero;34407390]Cheating would be creating a script like the famous script for TF2 pistol (allowed for shooting it at max coded speed, much faster than "average" gamer finger would). Quas, Wex and Exort are already instant and all he will get with such binds is convenience. He still has to press a button (that is on a side of a mouse, easily missable and only operatable with a thumb). Additionally in this case we have hardware with built-in macro software, designed for gaming. If having proper gear is cheating, then I guess well tuned headphones that allow me to hear abilities and proper PC for maximum settings that allows me to notice slightest puff/meld/particle is being Dick Dastardly.[/QUOTE] kk by this logic using a script that automates getting last hits creeps is a-ok, cool its possible to do it in normal gameplay! i still need to press a button!

[QUOTE=Tokagero;34407390]Cheating would be creating a script like the famous script for TF2 pistol (allowed for shooting it at max coded speed, much faster than "average" gamer finger would). Quas, Wex and Exort are already instant and all he will get with such binds is convenience. He still has to press a button (that is on a side of a mouse, easily missable and only operatable with a thumb). Additionally in this case we have hardware with built-in macro software, designed for gaming. If having proper gear is cheating, then I guess well tuned headphones that allow me to hear abilities and proper PC for maximum settings that allows me to notice slightest puff/meld/particle is being Dick Dastardly.[/QUOTE] you're still using macro's.

You are just trying to "justify" your cheating lol and your examples are awful. What is the fun of DOTA if you just let your mouse do all the work?

meh, he's probably still bad as invoker that shit's hard

Guys, if we are going to argue, then allow me to split it in two. I will read it in the morning. 1) Hardware and macros are cheating. If I hired a Korean player for 100$ to play 5 games for me, would it be cheating? He wouldn't use any scripts, just play legitemately and be skilled in Dota. (If you want to yell "Tournaments" at me, don't forget that they have rules, a lot of them. If Tournament allows for personal equipment, you can bet your ass, many players will bring such.) In this case, money = advantage. And it's going to stay that way for a while. There are many aspects within games like Dota that affect your performance. Would someone with 15 Frames Per Second play better than someone with stable 60, if aside from that they played like they were clones? The answer is obvious. And that's why Starcraft II, World of Warcraft, Counter Strike and likely Dota 2 (not all implented yet), all have flexible settings, so that people can have the adjust the frames in order to rid the game of that dependancy. Still, some settings might be advantageous (easier to notice particles, more visible meld, clearer animations, wider screen) and they have to be. Even browser games can be made easier to play with proper tools, and I don't mean premium accounts. Razer makes (overpriced) gaming oriented equipment. If game developers wouldn't want them to be usable in their game (competetive game?), they could just disable intrusive commands. They won't, most likely because of the money, but also because it's a minor advantage for a major price. I own some Razor equipment, and I can tell you, some side buttons and macros do help, but they are no I-Win buttons. You can still screw up, forget about something, you know, do human mistakes. If you are skilled or knowledgable, you can make macro software yourself and get the same advantage, just notice that you have to put some work into it. Like a professional sharp shooter, hand-crafting sights just for his eyes. 2) Source Scripts and In-Game Now, in terms of cheating, there is VAC. In terms of Source scripts, there is Valve. You know what happend to all the "Super pro" scripts some time ago in TF2 ? Valve modified Source so that those scripts can't work, because they were "too fast". Now, this is of course Beta of the game, they might make convenient scripts unusable in online play, but it's their decision, and they are aware of it. If they think it's ok, then it will stay so. Dota 2 is getting much more customizable options that Dota 1 could ever have, not because "It should be so", but because it's convenient and gives players more options. Games are about pleasure, not about doing things hard way around if they could be done easier.

[QUOTE=Tokagero;34407669] If I hired a Korean player for 100$ to play 5 games for me, would it be cheating?[/QUOTE] no it would be account sharing and holy shit that is a dumb rationalization

i don't think you get it. [editline]27th January 2012[/editline] also allowing for personal equipment =/= allowing the use of scripts.

anything not put into the game by default is basically cheating, since you're using an outside source to do the work for you.

[QUOTE=Santz;34407664]You are just trying to "justify" your cheating lol and your examples are awful. What is the fun of DOTA if you just let your mouse do all the work?[/QUOTE] If someone made a scripts for my mouse to auto-deny, auto-last hit and auto-avoid-ganks, then I wouldn't use it. It's a lot of advantage I want to earn myself. If I find myself having problems with getting used to, in this case, Invoker Combos, and there is a nice way I can make it eaiser for myself, why would I avoid it? Some people like it easier, it's like shift-stick and automatic deal. Now, who says one can't use those scripts to get more familiar with Invoker's spells and then slowly move onto "manual" mode, for either kicks, convenience (mouse profile switching, though it might be 1 button), or for any other reason. You seem to assault anything to make things easier, unless it's already in-game. You know those in-game ideas didn't come out of nowhere, if I remember correctly, there was 3rd party sofware for WC3 Dota for custome keybinds, combining items, courier scripts, etc. . Inconvenience -> Idea -> Tool -> Implementation , not a Cheat.

The PC hardware examples are awful. The Korean dude example is awful. By your logic, they should do key-binding that lets you do several spells in 1 key. Demon Witch doing hex, impale, ulti, dagon combo with 1 button click, same for other heroes. Its not about doing it the "hard" way but learning to do it the right way. If you put everything under one key there is no need for skill in DOTA, people would only pick spellcasters, and it would be overall shit.

[QUOTE=Tokagero;34407772]If someone made a scripts for my mouse to auto-deny, auto-last hit and auto-avoid-ganks, then I wouldn't use it. It's a lot of advantage I want to earn myself. If I find myself having problems with getting used to, in this case, Invoker Combos, and there is a nice way I can make it eaiser for myself, why would I avoid it? Some people like it easier, it's like shift-stick and automatic deal. Now, who says one can't use those scripts to get more familiar with Invoker's spells and then slowly move onto "manual" mode, for either kicks, convenience (mouse profile switching, though it might be 1 button), or for any other reason. You seem to assault anything to make things easier, unless it's already in-game. You know those in-game ideas didn't come out of nowhere, if I remember correctly, there was 3rd party sofware for WC3 Dota for custome keybinds, combining items, courier scripts, etc. . Inconvenience -> Idea -> Tool -> Implementation , not a Cheat.[/QUOTE] ok ur right im sure that icefrog would love to implement this idea that completely ruins the concept of invoker and just turns him into a regular hero with 10 abilities instead of 4 this is cheating

[QUOTE=bigbundie;34407732]anything not put into the game by default is basically cheating, since you're using an outside source to do the work for you.[/QUOTE] If you are talking Macros, then why intrusive commands from such sources are not blocked? If you are talking Source scripts, then I guess commands for showing range, ping, etc. are cheating aswell? You don't have in-game way to do this stuff so you use scripts to do it, "violating" rules of game not having such option for use.

[QUOTE=Tokagero;34407772] It's a lot of advantage I want to earn myself. [/QUOTE] Exactly. Auto-invoking all of his spells at your whim is an extreme advantage over everyone else.

[QUOTE=Tokagero;34407390]Cheating would be creating a script like the famous script for TF2 pistol (allowed for shooting it at max coded speed, much faster than "average" gamer finger would). Quas, Wex and Exort are already instant and all he will get with such binds is convenience. He still has to press a button (that is on a side of a mouse, easily missable and only operatable with a thumb). Additionally in this case we have hardware with built-in macro software, designed for gaming. If having proper gear is cheating, then I guess well tuned headphones that allow me to hear abilities and proper PC for maximum settings that allows me to notice slightest puff/meld/particle is being Dick Dastardly.[/QUOTE] How can you say the TF2 pistol script is cheating, but a macro for convince isn't cheating? It's possible for a human to click very fast and get a similar result to the pistol script, but that script made it more convenient. Is it cheating that I use scripts to auto disguise + cloak for the spy in TF2? Technically this whole argument is more about moral than cheating. Because there isn't any rules against these scripts, they're built into the game(I don't know exactly how the DotA2 scripts work, but I assume it's the same as all other source engine games). EDIT: I think I'm late, a lot of new posts before I submitted this one.

[QUOTE=Tokagero;34407772] Now, who says one can't use those scripts to get more familiar with Invoker's spells and then slowly move onto "manual" mode, for either kicks, convenience (mouse profile switching, though it might be 1 button), or for any other reason. [/QUOTE] But you wont go into "manual mode." You won't learn the combo combinations at all playing like that. You'll just cripple yourself for whenever you break that mouse from smashing the shit out of it in rage at the goofballs on your team. Invoker's combo's aren't hard to learn. Go make a -wtf and sit in the woods for 20 minutes or so. Then they aren't a deal.

[QUOTE=Santz;34407785]The PC hardware examples are awful. The Korean dude example is awful. By your logic, they should do key-binding that lets you do several spells in 1 key. Demon Witch doing hex, impale, ulti, dagon combo with 1 button click, same for other heroes. Its not about doing it the "hard" way but learning to do it the right way. If you put everything under one key there is no need for skill in DOTA, people would only pick spellcasters, and it would be overall shit.[/QUOTE] Honestly. Clicking Q + R + <item keybind> + W + E on Lion doesn't take even a second. Is it really a difference whether it's macroed or not ? Smart demon witch will Q+R a target in the same time someone uses "Q+R" button, hell, my hands are slow and I can vaporise people with Pugna's Q+W+Dagon in less than a second.

where is the update