[QUOTE=TheHypnotoad;32972705]I try not to mention owning anything not from GW, they always seem to treat you like scum.
I had some blast and flame templates I'd printed onto acetate, and they jumped me like I was some kind of heretic. Still had them from when they provided copies to photocopy in the back of the 3rd edition.
Though I often feel sorry for the guys that work there, I was after a copy of a book (No idea what it was now) and the guy said he didn't have any and to try waterstones down the street. Later when I had a match against him he told me he got chewed out because he should have said for him to order one and wait for it to apear in the store. Crazy when it was just a little side comment, with him trying to be helpful.
Not sure how I would avoid going insane working in the local GW, it's tiny and crammed full of BO ridden guys that seem to live there and tiny children who are lucky not to inhale any paint or parts. Oh and the music selection strays towards "total brutal-Austrian Death Machine" far too often for a saturday morning.[/QUOTE]
BO ridden, what does that mean?
Also, why are they lucky not to inhale any paint, are you implying that painting models could be unhealthy for you or something like that?
[editline]26th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=nightlord;32972663]Can weapon challenges (Eg 250 bolter kills) be done in Exterminatus?[/QUOTE]
They can't.
I got around 20 multi-kills with a melta in an Exterminatus session yesterday, and it didn't even unlock anything.
Body-odor ridden I would assume!
[QUOTE=Hoboharry;32972764]BO ridden, what does that mean?
Also, why are they lucky not to inhale any paint, are you implying that painting models could be unhealthy for you or something like that?
[editline]26th October 2011[/editline]
They can't.
I got around 20 multi-kills with a melta in an Exterminatus session yesterday, and it didn't even unlock anything.[/QUOTE]
Small children like to touch and open things, leading to them eating paint or small parts.
[editline]26th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Dick Tracy;32972726]Am I just cursed with terribly bad luck or what's the deal?[/QUOTE]
I would imagine it just bad chances. The closest store to me is 500km away, and when I went there, I had a great experience, and spent like an hour talking about the new Grey Knights (A couple weeks after they came out) and got an awesome painting lesson, which set me up to be as good a painter as I am today. The guy really loved his work though, and maybe he just wasn't jaded enough to be a dick about business.
so good point
You're all talking about how "soulless killers are the Tyranids thing!". Isn't self absorbed ancient race trying to regain supremacy the Eldar's thing?
So i was planning on basing my paladins, even though i might not use them, i was planning on just giving the base some grassy effect or such, anybody know any good material for such bases?
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;32972887]so good point
You're all talking about how "soulless killers are the Tyranids thing!". Isn't self absorbed ancient race trying to regain supremacy the Eldar's thing?[/QUOTE]
Not really, the Imperium are trying to regain their superiority, so are the Dark Eldar, Abaddon is trying to gain superiority. At this point, a full fluff Transplant is good, because 40k is (for me at least) only getting staler and more repetitive.
[QUOTE=cyclocius;32972924]Not really, the Imperium are trying to regain their superiority, so are the Dark Eldar, Abaddon is trying to gain superiority. At this point, a full fluff Transplant is good, because 40k is (for me at least) only getting staler and more repetitive.[/QUOTE]
So the perfect solution to the fluff being stale is to reuse more fluff.
M'kay.
So if the Necron are all honorable and work as mercenaries now, what exactly do they accept as payment for work?
I mean what [I]do[/I] you pay a metal space zombie with?
So, as it's confirmed a Space Marine sequel won't be happening any time soon, is it likely to become one of those games that's continually updated with new stuff, like TF2?
Because I reckon Tyranids could be added fairly easily. Just remodel the weakest Ork (can't remember what they're called), increase the damage they deal, and make them the only enemies in the round. In fact, you could do that for all of the melee enemies, theoretically. Just change them to their closest equivalents.
The biggest problem is that they can't make changes that are too big, everything has to be at a stalemate or they'll alienate big chunks of their players.
I mean hell, if their current campaign (Eye Of Terror) would be considered to be true, they would have to give chaos such a huge advantage over the imperium (in fact, all of the xeno races) that the race of man would most likely be completely removed from the game. They lost Cadia, and they need to control the world or they won't be able to move through the warp.
GW isn't going to change a thing, they are going to make small changes so that they can continue to sell things, and they will never make huge landmark changes ; They will never remove a race or make them weak, because that takes away from sales.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;32972943]So the perfect solution to the fluff being stale is to reuse more fluff.
M'kay.
So if the Necron are all honorable and work as mercenaries now, what exactly do they accept as payment for work?
I mean what [I]do[/I] you pay a metal space zombie with?[/QUOTE]
To be honest, yes. Were it any other situation, I'd say it was stupid and idiotic. But honestly, I really don't like 40k. I run Dark Heresy for the Facepunch Group, but 40k is so boring to me. Everything is on such a scale that it means nothing. Thirty Thousand guardsmen dead. Okay. Oh well, 30,000 mooks. Plenty more where they came from. The Tyranids are closing in! The First company of Ultramarines are dead. Oh no, 9 more to go! Aeon old metal ghouls are awakening to reclaim their empire! Oh dear. Oh well.
I'm a fantasy man, I enjoy that setting, where losses mean something because there's a finite pool to draw from, infinitely more. To see some of the best fluff from that setting moving to 40k, makes me a very happy man.
[QUOTE=Dick Tracy;32973011]The biggest problem is that they can't make changes that are too big, everything has to be at a stalemate or they'll alienate big chunks of their players.
I mean hell, if their current campaign (Eye Of Terror) would be considered to be true, they would have to give chaos such a huge advantage over the imperium (in fact, all of the xeno races) that the race of man would most likely be completely removed from the game. They lost Cadia, and they need to control the world or they won't be able to move through the warp.
GW isn't going to change a thing, they are going to make small changes so that they can continue to sell things, and they will never make huge landmark changes ; They will never remove a race or make them weak, because that takes away from sales.[/QUOTE]
Losing Cadia (which didn't happen) would only mean that the way to the Eye of Terror was shut, that's all. It wouldn't stop warp travel.
Simple. They release some books set in the 44th millenium.
[QUOTE=cyclocius;32973020]To be honest, yes. Were it any other situation, I'd say it was stupid and idiotic. But honestly, I really don't like 40k. I run Dark Heresy for the Facepunch Group, but 40k is so boring to me. Everything is on such a scale that it means nothing. Thirty Thousand guardsmen dead. Okay. Oh well, 30,000 mooks. Plenty more where they came from. The Tyranids are closing in! The First company of Ultramarines are dead. Oh no, 9 more to go! Aeon old metal ghouls are awakening to reclaim their empire! Oh dear. Oh well.
I'm a fantasy man, I enjoy that setting, where losses mean something because there's a finite pool to draw from, infinitely more. To see some of the best fluff from that setting moving to 40k, makes me a very happy man.[/QUOTE]
I think you're looking for the wrong thing from the wrong source.
Yeah, 40K is grimdark as fuck to the point where logistics are completely meaningless. Armies, worlds, and entire races dying don't really matter all that much from a viewing perspective. But the reason for that is that [I]there's just so fucking much.[/I]
I run a Dark Heresy game too, and I fucking love 40K because you can run pretty much any kind of game in any kind of situation and make it work. World War 2 trench warfare can be followed by Victorian ballroom assassinations, which can then itself be followed by breaking up a Cthulu cult in Kowloon city. And normally when these things are meshed together it's done so for comedic effect, since it's kind of hard to make them work together logically, but the universe has struck an odd sort of balance between the disturbing and the ridiculous.
Players never give a fuck about faceless mooks, regardless of how many or how few there are. Players would eliminate all of mankind if it got them more shinies than NOT eliminating mankind. By the same card, even if in the grand scheme of things a single planet doesn't mean anything, if it's an interesting place with fun(and useful) characters on it, then the players would probably would put a bit more thought to the idea of destroying it.
Besides, how in the fuck is Fantasy any more or less finite than 40k? It's not like any single race is [I]ever[/I] going to be killed off in either universe. And really, what's the difference between "the tyranids attacked macragge and killed the first company, this was a great tragedy and made everyone sad, but they recovered eventually" and "the orcs attacked the dwarves and destroyed a major city, this made everyone sad but eventually they recovered"?
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;32972943]So the perfect solution to the fluff being stale is to reuse more fluff.
M'kay.
So if the Necron are all honorable and work as mercenaries now, what exactly do they accept as payment for work?
I mean what [I]do[/I] you pay a metal space zombie with?[/QUOTE]
judging from the necron army posted a few pages back, you pay them in large sums of turquoise :v:
[QUOTE=-nesto-;32973224]judging from the necron army posted a few pages back, you pay them in large sums of turquoise :v:[/QUOTE]
See that's the racket, they make you pay in GW paint, which bankrupts the planet. [I]Then[/I] they attack.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;32973061]Losing Cadia (which didn't happen) would only mean that the way to the Eye of Terror was shut, that's all. It wouldn't stop warp travel.[/QUOTE]
Oh right, thanks for pointing that out. =)
Still, Abbaddon has opened the gates to the warp, and the orks have taken over several forge worlds, meaning that not only will the chaos forces have an unlimited supply to daemonic forces, the greenskins will have access to bigger and better guns, while denying the imperium a chance to use those big guns against her enemies.
Not only do the imperium have to retake the worlds around Cadia to seal the gate to the warp, they will have to fight an ork enemy that has destructive firepower that they haven't had before, and a tyranid fleet that consumes everything.
Fact is, the imperium should be one of the weakest forces now and the space marines should also be incredibly weakened, but that won't happen ; The Space Marines are the iconic (and most newbie friendly) army of warhammer 40k, and they will never let them die, even if an games workshop campaign would end in the complete annihilation of them.
Nothing will really change in warhammer 40k, everyone will still be as grimdark as ever and no force will ever lose their power, because that would alienate a lot of their loyal fans.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, games workshop has to think of profits, and destroying a perfect standstill can ruin profits.
[editline]26th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;32973213]I think you're looking for the wrong thing from the wrong source.
Yeah, 40K is grimdark as fuck to the point where logistics are completely meaningless. Armies, worlds, and entire races dying don't really matter all that much from a viewing perspective. But the reason for that is that [I]there's just so fucking much.[/I]
I run a Dark Heresy game too, and I fucking love 40K because you can run pretty much any kind of game in any kind of situation and make it work. World War 2 trench warfare can be followed by Victorian ballroom assassinations, which can then itself be followed by breaking up a Cthulu cult in Kowloon city. And normally when these things are meshed together it's done so for comedic effect, since it's kind of hard to make them work together logically, but the universe has struck an odd sort of balance between the disturbing and the ridiculous.
Players never give a fuck about faceless mooks, regardless of how many or how few there are. Players would eliminate all of mankind if it got them more shinies than NOT eliminating mankind. By the same card, even if in the grand scheme of things a single planet doesn't mean anything, if it's an interesting place with fun(and useful) characters on it, then the players would probably would put a bit more thought to the idea of destroying it.
Besides, how in the fuck is Fantasy any more or less finite than 40k? It's not like any single race is [I]ever[/I] going to be killed off in either universe. And really, what's the difference between "the tyranids attacked macragge and killed the first company, this was a great tragedy and made everyone sad, but they recovered eventually" and "the orcs attacked the dwarves and destroyed a major city, this made everyone sad but eventually they recovered"?[/QUOTE]
Fantasy and WH40k is the exact same thing, the only difference is that you just multiply the amount of troops used in the fantasy game with tens of millions :v: And I love it, grimdark is the best damn thing!
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;32973213]I think you're looking for the wrong thing from the wrong source.
Yeah, 40K is grimdark as fuck to the point where logistics are completely meaningless. Armies, worlds, and entire races dying don't really matter all that much from a viewing perspective. But the reason for that is that [I]there's just so fucking much.[/I]
I run a Dark Heresy game too, and I fucking love 40K because you can run pretty much any kind of game in any kind of situation and make it work. World War 2 trench warfare can be followed by Victorian ballroom assassinations, which can then itself be followed by breaking up a Cthulu cult in Kowloon city. And normally when these things are meshed together it's done so for comedic effect, since it's kind of hard to make them work together logically, but the universe has struck an odd sort of balance between the disturbing and the ridiculous.
Players never give a fuck about faceless mooks, regardless of how many or how few there are. Players would eliminate all of mankind if it got them more shinies than NOT eliminating mankind. By the same card, even if in the grand scheme of things a single planet doesn't mean anything, if it's an interesting place with fun(and useful) characters on it, then the players would probably would put a bit more thought to the idea of destroying it.
Besides, how in the fuck is Fantasy any more or less finite than 40k? It's not like any single race is [I]ever[/I] going to be killed off in either universe. And really, what's the difference between "the tyranids attacked macragge and killed the first company, this was a great tragedy and made everyone sad, but they recovered eventually" and "the orcs attacked the dwarves and destroyed a major city, this made everyone sad but eventually they recovered"?[/QUOTE]
I prefer the smaller scale of Warhammer Fantasy, that's it. I know 40k can be used to accomodate Political Intrigue, I can run murder mystery, I can run almost anything within the setting. I'm fine with that, but 40k has a Stigma. And its Space Marines, power armour, power swords, bolters and Land Raiders. Boom, kapow! Look how fucking huge that thing there is! The first session of Dark Heresy I ran, for the Facepunch Group at least, was about them being tasked with assassinating a Cult Leader. Not a Chaos cult. Originally, it was a help group, like some people would go to an AA meeting. It relieved people of personal burden and promoted spirituality. There was nothing wrong with the group, but members of the group weren't turning up to work, favouring their personal lives instead. Word travelled and the groups Interrogator got wind and sent them to sort it out, without making a scene of it.
The Group could have done anything with that, accidently run her over with a car, discredit her, sway her away from it. 2 Hours in, they'd fallen into a meeting and shot the place up. After the session, I tacked on that they were a Xenophile cult and the Cell decided (without even knowing it was now a Xenophile cult) to blow the entire congregation up.
[editline]26th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Dick Tracy;32973254]
[editline]26th October 2011[/editline]
Fantasy and WH40k is the exact same thing, the only difference is that you just multiply the amount of troops used in the fantasy game with tens of millions :v: And I love it, grimdark is the best damn thing![/QUOTE]
It really isn't. See above post. Then tell me what a soldier of the Empire looks like.
Damn you Automerge.
[QUOTE=cyclocius;32973020]To be honest, yes. Were it any other situation, I'd say it was stupid and idiotic. But honestly, I really don't like 40k. I run Dark Heresy for the Facepunch Group, but 40k is so boring to me. Everything is on such a scale that it means nothing. Thirty Thousand guardsmen dead. Okay. Oh well, 30,000 mooks. Plenty more where they came from. The Tyranids are closing in! The First company of Ultramarines are dead. Oh no, 9 more to go! Aeon old metal ghouls are awakening to reclaim their empire! Oh dear. Oh well.
I'm a fantasy man, I enjoy that setting, where losses mean something because there's a finite pool to draw from, infinitely more. To see some of the best fluff from that setting moving to 40k, makes me a very happy man.[/QUOTE]
Well that practically only goes for Orks, Imperial Guard and Tyranids, however, look at the Eldar, they were once a strong empire, but now their numbers are so low that every Guardian who dies is considered a fairly big loss, then there's the Space Marines, their numbers are quite big, but the technology to build gene-seeds is lost, so that every dead battle-brother or every corrupt gene-seed is considered as a big loss, so both Eldar and Space Marines have a finite pool to draw from.
[editline]26th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;32972943]So the perfect solution to the fluff being stale is to reuse more fluff.
M'kay.
So if the Necron are all honorable and work as mercenaries now, what exactly do they accept as payment for work?
I mean what [I]do[/I] you pay a metal space zombie with?[/QUOTE]
Good question.
Perhaps they would accept better Gauss weaponry or such?
[QUOTE=cyclocius;32973280]
It really isn't. See above post. Then tell me what a soldier of the Empire looks like.
[/QUOTE]
That depends completely on where the soldier has been drafted.
The empire has hundreds of legions with forces who all dress differently, and the same goes for the imperium.
[QUOTE=Dick Tracy;32973406]That depends completely on where the soldier has been drafted.
The empire has hundreds of legions with forces who all dress differently, and the same goes for the imperium.[/QUOTE]
Thank fuck for that :whew:
[QUOTE=cyclocius;32973428]Thank fuck for that :whew:[/QUOTE]
Thank fuck for what? Oh and man, I'd really love to start playing warhammer fantasy too, but if I were to do that I would probably order units from other sites other than games workshop ; WHF seems to be more about huge swats of troops, and there are a lot of other sculptors who make pretty decent fantasy figures. =)
You know, it's funny.
When everything is dead because of the tyranids, the Dark Eldar will probably be the only ones left.
Your Answer. The last person I asked when I had this discussion said;
"Dunno, do they have warhammers or some shit?" Before he went back to talking about just how cool theDamocles Campaign was.
And then the tyranids die because there's nothing left to eat, and then the dark eldars are really the only ones alive
[editline]26th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=cyclocius;32973479]Your Answer. The last person I asked when I had this discussion said;
"Dunno, do they have warhammers or some shit?" Before he went back to talking about just how cool theDamocles Campaign was.[/QUOTE]
Well, warhammer (both fantasy and 40k) is immensly cool, 40k for the grimdark and fantasy because well, dragons and shit.
Is the Tau commander a DoW2R only thing, or is it for the oringinal?
[QUOTE=cyclocius;32973280]I prefer the smaller scale of Warhammer Fantasy, that's it. I know 40k can be used to accomodate Political Intrigue, I can run murder mystery, I can run almost anything within the setting. I'm fine with that, but 40k has a Stigma. And its Space Marines, power armour, power swords, bolters and Land Raiders. Boom, kapow! Look how fucking huge that thing there is! The first session of Dark Heresy I ran, for the Facepunch Group at least, was about them being tasked with assassinating a Cult Leader. Not a Chaos cult. Originally, it was a help group, like some people would go to an AA meeting. It relieved people of personal burden and promoted spirituality. There was nothing wrong with the group, but members of the group weren't turning up to work, favouring their personal lives instead. Word travelled and the groups Interrogator got wind and sent them to sort it out, without making a scene of it.
The Group could have done anything with that, accidently run her over with a car, discredit her, sway her away from it. 2 Hours in, they'd fallen into a meeting and shot the place up. After the session, I tacked on that they were a Xenophile cult and the Cell decided (without even knowing it was now a Xenophile cult) to blow the entire congregation up.
[editline]26th October 2011[/editline]
It really isn't. See above post. Then tell me what a soldier of the Empire looks like.
Damn you Automerge.[/QUOTE]
Well see, I'd say that's a problem in GMing. So you want to introduce a cult that ISN'T evil, and you want to make your players reluctant to kill it, yeah?
Simple, just have some more douchey force attack the players and have the "good" cult assist them in some way. If they still refuse to learn anything about the cult, describe their slaughter as violently and depressingly as possible. Describe women begging for their lives, children crying in other rooms, men dazedly picking up their own innards as they spill out of their stomachs. Reinforce that what's happening is wrong through the way that the mind's eye sees it.
If that STILL doesn't work [I]at all[/I], your players are either textbook sociopaths or just so uninvolved it doesn't matter what you do anyway.
And you know what, you can still work with that. Players like that like adversity, and overcoming great odds. Work on a campaign centered around some powerful enemy, and give them just enough to defeat it, maybe even just with some really damn clever thinking.
I think you're blaming the setting for plot deficiencies.
[QUOTE=Dick Tracy;32973491]And then the tyranids die because there's nothing left to eat, and then the dark eldars are really the only ones alive[/QUOTE]
The only reason they'll be the last ones alive is because they can hide in Commorragh for centuries on end.
[editline]26th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=jackattack;32973513]Is the Tau commander a DoW2R only thing, or is it for the oringinal?[/QUOTE]
DoW2R only.
[QUOTE=Hoboharry;32973532]The only reason they'll be the last ones alive is because they can hide in Commorragh for centuries on end.
[editline]26th October 2011[/editline]
DoW2R only.[/QUOTE]
I do like the Dark Eldar, but is it just me or do they rival the Tau in terms of being completely irrelevant to the proceedings of the galaxy?
I don't know, it just feels like they just sort of hang around, occasionally pirating worlds and ships and the like, but mostly they just dick around in Cammorragh.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;32973522]Well see, I'd say that's a problem in GMing. So you want to introduce a cult that ISN'T evil, and you want to make your players reluctant to kill it, yeah?
Simple, just have some more douchey force attack the players and have the "good" cult assist them in some way. If they still refuse to learn anything about the cult, describe their slaughter as violently and depressingly as possible. Describe women begging for their lives, children crying in other rooms, men dazedly picking up their own innards as they spill out of their stomachs. Reinforce that what's happening is wrong through the way that the mind's eye sees it.
If that STILL doesn't work [I]at all[/I], your players are either textbook sociopaths or just so uninvolved it doesn't matter what you do anyway.
And you know what, you can still work with that. Players like that like adversity, and overcoming great odds. Work on a campaign centered around some powerful enemy, and give them just enough to defeat it, maybe even just with some really damn clever thinking.
I think you're blaming the setting for plot deficiencies.[/QUOTE]
I am, to the last part. It's why Eisenhorn is my favourite series of 40k novels, because it has as many space marines in it as I can count on my 2 hands, and all of them are killed save one, while Eisenhorn runs about and does stuff that's interesting.
The point wasn't to make the players go;
"Well, that was some fantastic Guro Cyc"
Or
"Well, I think we need to check if this Cult Leader is alive. If not, these guys did our job for us"
It was to promote some creativity, I provided a simple goal. They didn't have to do it, they could have faked it, outright refused and risked the consequences of defying the Inquisition, unthinkingly done it like the lackeys they ultimately are.
The best campaign is not one where the characters are winning, it's the one where they have fought really hard to win, and even so they don't really win, they just altered something so that they lost.
And well, it sounds like your players just weren't really imaginitive, you can always have an NPC that joins the group to help give them ideas, make it easier for them when it's too hard, and the opposite.
You could've made so that they would have to join the group, make them involved in the group, maybe even make it so that they liked the group and THEN they are tasked with destroying it, but obviously they've already made friends with the group members, maybe even started a romance.
Try to personalize it, give every character they meet a personality so that they can relate to them, bond with them so that what they do have actual consequences*, don't make everything a backdrop for the character ; make everything a part of the character.
*in the game ofcourse, this obviously is meant for everything I've mentioned. =)
[editline]26th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Hoboharry;32973532]The only reason they'll be the last ones alive is because they can hide in Commorragh for centuries on end.
[/QUOTE]
I know :v:
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