• Oblivion 2: Skyrim V6: Old People's Naked Bodies Fishing Secrets With Their Manly Beards
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Why is there so many books in the games anyway? No one's invented the printing press from what I can tell.
[QUOTE=Rents;34068889]Why is there so many books in the games anyway? No one's invented the printing press from what I can tell.[/QUOTE] Bored invisible monks. (Don't tell me the Ancestor Moths or Graybeards did it, the former is composed of blind people and the latter is the equivalent of people who live under rocks all their lives.)
[QUOTE=thisispain;34068828]gah, read the books in Skyrim! [/QUOTE] Okay fair enough I haven't done this, but I feel like in-game books and lore are mistaken for depth and complexity. In the end, it is still one of the worst plots I've seen in an RPG (and that's saying a lot). I just wish for more innovation in storytelling but then again I also wish less people thought these plots were cool, but obviously that's not the case since everyone was jerking themselves when the dragons were announced. It's like, people want more depth in their games, but they're okay with the game's main premise being "dragons have returned, and only the player can stop them." Make up your minds people!
[QUOTE=thisispain;34068828]gah, read the books in Skyrim! [editline]5th January 2012[/editline] well there's no average or anything like that. Anytime you strike the same character the formula is exactly the same, the luck doesn't change it's completely static. i would say the difference is that instead of appearing to be a binary hit or miss, it appears that you are slowly whittling away people's health. Oblivion is the one where you don't always do 70 damage per swing.[/QUOTE] The difference is that [B]luck is involved[/B], period. If I have a 50% chance to hit someone and do 10 damage per swing, I could miss every swing or hit every swing depending on RNG.
[QUOTE=stepat201;34068904]Okay fair enough I haven't done this, but I feel like in-game books and lore are mistaken for depth and complexity. In the end, it is still one of the worst plots I've seen in an RPG (and that's saying a lot). I just wish for more innovation in storytelling but then again I also wish less people thought these plots were cool, but obviously that's not the case since everyone was jerking themselves when the dragons were announced. It's like, people want more depth in their games, but they're okay with the game's main premise being "dragons have returned, and only the player can stop them." Make up your minds people![/QUOTE] Hahahah, you don't read any of the books and then say the game was shallow, how would you even know?
[QUOTE=Rents;34068931]Hahahah, you don't read any of the books and then say the game was shallow, how would you even know?[/QUOTE] The books are pretty shallow too. Not to mention short. And [I]filled[/I] with typos. Warcraft has even more inane sub-plots than the Elder Scrolls, and it's still shallow and cliche. The only original thing the Elder Scrolls has is CHIM and the Dragon Break, and that's essentially just a way to perform a fourth wall breakage/internal retcon. Having every game be "you're the chosen one [of every organization and prophecy]! save us!!" gets very old. Also, hiding away 90% of the plot in books is not a good idea.
I think my game is bugged, not sure. My main quest is gone, i think the last quest i did was "Diplomatic Immunity" but, yea does anyone know how to continue on? Its not at all in my quest journal
[QUOTE=rinoaff33;34068924]The difference is that [B]luck is involved[/B], period. If I have a 50% chance to hit someone and do 10 damage per swing, I could miss every swing or hit every swing depending on RNG.[/QUOTE] no dude, luck isn't a random number it's an attribute. there is no random number generator. [url]http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Luck[/url] look at this equation. (70 * 1.25) + (12-10) + ((60-50) * 0.25)) + ((50-40) * 0.125)) the last parenthesis is luck and it doesn't change, so say i press the mouse button to attack three times: (70 * 1.25) + (12-10) + ((60-50) * 0.25)) + ((50-40) * 0.125)) = 93.25 (70 * 1.25) + (12-10) + ((60-50) * 0.25)) + ((50-40) * 0.125)) = 93.25 (70 * 1.25) + (12-10) + ((60-50) * 0.25)) + ((50-40) * 0.125)) = 93.25 the calculation does not change.
[QUOTE=Rents;34068931]Hahahah, you don't read any of the books and then say the game was shallow, how would you even know?[/QUOTE] That's not at all what I'm saying! I'm saying the foundation of the game world is filled with rich and complex lore (as evidenced by the books), but the actual plots contain none of this. Skyrim's plot is not deep or complex, it doesn't matter if somewhere in the game there's a book that offers more background on the issue of the dragons, in the end the plot is still "dragons have returned, only the player can stop them". Like another guy said, who cares if the lore exists when none of it is actually put to use? It's almost as ridiculous as saying Mass Effect has a deep story because of the books written to accompany the game. If the actual development of Skyrim's plot touched on more complexities that the game world has to offer, maybe it would be better, but as it's presented in game it's literally a simplified version of Star Wars (who knew that was possible?). Regardless of any of that, I see no reason why Bethesda can't do a character based plot.
[QUOTE=rinoaff33;34068942]The books are pretty shallow too. Not to mention short. And [I]filled[/I] with typos. Warcraft has even more inane sub-plots than the Elder Scrolls, and it's still shallow and cliche. The only original thing the Elder Scrolls has is CHIM and the Dragon Break, and that's essentially just a way to perform a fourth wall breakage/internal retcon. Having every game be "you're the chosen one [of every organization and prophecy]! save us!!" gets very old. Also, hiding away 90% of the plot in books is not a good idea.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it was pretty shallow, I just though it funny that he didn't see half of it before he decided it was shallow.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34068989]no dude, luck isn't a random number it's an attribute. there is no random number generator. [url]http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Luck[/url] look at this equation. (70 * 1.25) + (12-10) + ((60-50) * 0.25)) + ((50-40) * 0.125)) the last parenthesis is luck and it doesn't change, so say i press the mouse button to attack three times: (70 * 1.25) + (12-10) + ((60-50) * 0.25)) + ((50-40) * 0.125)) = 93.25 (70 * 1.25) + (12-10) + ((60-50) * 0.25)) + ((50-40) * 0.125)) = 93.25 (70 * 1.25) + (12-10) + ((60-50) * 0.25)) + ((50-40) * 0.125)) = 93.25 the calculation does not change.[/QUOTE] I wasn't referring to the in-game attribute "Luck", I was referring to actual luck. As in, a chance will never give you the exact proportion that it tells you it will unless you do it very many times. It's like flipping a coin. It will most likely not end up with 50 heads and 50 tails exactly.
[QUOTE=rinoaff33;34069018]I wasn't referring to the in-game attribute "Luck", I was referring to actual luck. As in, a chance will never give you the exact proportion that it tells you unless you do it very many times.[/QUOTE] well basically it's the difference between you miss or hit the enemy and you do less damage to the enemy. i mean it doesn't change the gameplay when you hit something, just keep swinging. blocking is a different story.
[QUOTE=rinoaff33;34069018]I wasn't referring to the in-game attribute "Luck", I was referring to actual luck. As in, a chance will never give you the exact proportion that it tells you it will unless you do it very many times.[/QUOTE] This whole conversation you're having is pointless, and provides a total counterpoint to what I'm talking about. Video games should be an art form. What's the point in discussing the math behind the game's combat system, when that literally has no bearing on the artistic merit or enjoyment of the game. I think part of the reason why the stories are so consistently terrible in games is because people are more focused on stuff like this, which doesn't matter. In the end, Skyrim is no worse off for not having a math based combat system, or attributes or major skills. It's worse off because of it's consistently shallow storytelling which extends into the guilds this time(!). How many 'RPG' mechanics the game contains means literally nothing, and is the entirely wrong direction to be looking in.
[QUOTE=stepat201;34069062]What's the point in discussing the math behind the game's combat system, when that literally has no bearing on the artistic merit or enjoyment of the game. [/QUOTE] i like math.
[QUOTE=stepat201;34069062]This whole conversation you're having is pointless, and provides a total counterpoint to what I'm talking about. Video games should be an art form. What's the point in discussing the math behind the game's combat system, when that literally has no bearing on the artistic merit or enjoyment of the game. I think part of the reason why the stories are so consistently terrible in games is because people are more focused on stuff like this, which doesn't matter. In the end, Skyrim is no worse off for not having a math based combat system, or attributes or major skills. It's worse off because of it's consistently shallow storytelling which extends into the guilds this time(!). How many 'RPG' mechanics the game contains means literally nothing, and is the entirely wrong direction to be looking in.[/QUOTE] If you want a game that is more focused on storytelling, play a Bioware game or something like Indigo Prophecy or LA Noire. RPGs are founded upon both math and roleplaying. Bethesda is obviously focusing more on action and freedom than storytelling.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34068989]no dude, luck isn't a random number it's an attribute. there is no random number generator. [url]http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Luck[/url] look at this equation. (70 * 1.25) + (12-10) + ((60-50) * 0.25)) + ((50-40) * 0.125)) the last parenthesis is luck and it doesn't change, so say i press the mouse button to attack three times: (70 * 1.25) + (12-10) + ((60-50) * 0.25)) + ((50-40) * 0.125)) = 93.25 (70 * 1.25) + (12-10) + ((60-50) * 0.25)) + ((50-40) * 0.125)) = 93.25 (70 * 1.25) + (12-10) + ((60-50) * 0.25)) + ((50-40) * 0.125)) = 93.25 the calculation does not change.[/QUOTE] Calculation or not, there's still a chance to fail. It's a controllable chance, but a diceroll is involved.
it'd be pretty rad if some of the stories and plays in in-game books were expanded upon, cause some of them be interesting
My PC, my only way of playing the game, can't handle the game on the lowest settings possible.
[QUOTE=rinoaff33;34069084]If you want a game that is more focused on storytelling, play a Bioware game or something like Indigo Prophecy or LA Noire. RPGs are founded upon both math and roleplaying. Bethesda is obviously focusing more on action and freedom than storytelling.[/QUOTE] No, this is totally wrong! First off, Bioware games are just as shallow, I don't know where people get the idea that they aren't. Mass Effect - Reapers are coming, only you can stop them! Dragon Age - Darkspawn are coming, only you can stop them! Please, no more. And why should RPGs be about math? I'm sorry, but are you really still subscribed to the DnD model? It's insanely archaic, and just because DnD founded the RPG doesn't mean the genre shouldn't break out of that into something more artistically relevant. I feel like Elder Scrolls has taken steps in the right direction by getting rid of the unnecessary, cumbersome and distracting attributes and math-based leveling and combat, but they need to address their storytelling (as do all developers).
the storytelling is much more difficult than the combat though, because the storyline can't feel too overbearing and important or else most people would miss out on everything else and it would make the game feel smaller.
[QUOTE=KmScMT;34069109]it'd be pretty rad if some of the stories and plays in in-game books were expanded upon, cause some of them be interesting[/QUOTE] Actually, Skyrim expanded upon a [I]lot[/I] of the books I remember reading in the other games. For example, I remember finding a book about Shouts while playing Oblivion. I then thought to myself (having not watched any Skyrim trailers/read any info on it besides the release date) "Man, I wonder if Skyrim will incorporate shouts? Nahhh." There's also Movarth from Darkest Blood (I think that's what it's called), as well as the many undead legends that you can find and re-kill[sp](like Red Eagle or King Olaf).[/sp] There's also Alduin and the Dragonborn, of course. And the Psijic Order (which was very, VERY poorly implemented into a shallow questline). They just have little context behind them in-game, unfortunately.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34069160]the storytelling is much more difficult than the combat though, because the storyline can't feel too overbearing and important or else most people would miss out on everything else and it would make the game feel smaller.[/QUOTE] I know, and I said that the only way they could make the demonic invasion plot truly work would be to build the entire game around it, which would be a huge mistake. So what's the obvious solution? Do a nuanced, character-based plot that actually integrates itself into the world. This is actually an option.
[QUOTE=stepat201;34069190]I know, and I said that the only way they could make the demonic invasion plot truly work would be to build the entire game around it, which would be a huge mistake. So what's the obvious solution? Do a nuanced, character-based plot that actually integrates itself into the world. This is actually an option.[/QUOTE] Unfortunately, sandbox gameplay and story-based gameplay are mutually exclusive. And Bethesda's philosophy is sandbox-based. A story has to be driven. Look at Saints Row for a recent example: all of the storyline (or what there is of it, considering the amount of cut content/general wackiness) is contained within scripted missions. It's kind of the same reason that multiplayer ruins storylines, because the other players will be causing havoc and immersion breaks.
Quick question, I joined the thieves guild and among the beds in the cistern there is one that isn't owned. Can I keep my items in the chest next to it? I assume it's mine but I dont want to lose all my shit.
[QUOTE=rinoaff33;34069180]Actually, Skyrim expanded upon a [I]lot[/I] of the books I remember reading in the other games. For example, I remember finding a book about Shouts while playing Oblivion. I then thought to myself (having not watched any Skyrim trailers/read any info on it besides the release date) "Man, I wonder if Skyrim will incorporate shouts? Nahhh." There's also Movarth from Darkest Blood (I think that's what it's called), as well as the many undead legends that you can find and re-kill[sp](like Red Eagle or King Olaf).[/sp] There's also Alduin and the Dragonborn, of course. And the Psijic Order (which was very, VERY poorly implemented into a shallow questline). They just have little context behind them in-game, unfortunately.[/QUOTE] do you happen to remember the name of the book about Shouts
[QUOTE=KmScMT;34069268]do you happen to remember the name of the book about Shouts[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Children_of_the_Sky[/url] I googled "Oblivion book that talks about shouts".
_snip im late-
[QUOTE=rinoaff33;34069249]Unfortunately, sandbox gameplay and story-based gameplay are mutually exclusive. And Bethesda's philosophy is sandbox-based. A story has to be driven. Look at Saints Row for a recent example: all of the storyline (or what there is of it, considering the amount of cut content/general wackiness) is contained within scripted missions. It's kind of the same reason that multiplayer ruins storylines, because the other players will be causing havoc and immersion breaks.[/QUOTE] Frankly I just don't believe this is true, I believe that because no one has totally pulled it off yet, people might not realize it's possible. The Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion was pretty damn character driven considering it had the best written, most memorable characters in Elder Scrolls history, and it's underlying plot was almost non-existent, with an incredibly slow build-up to the (actually satisfying for once) climax. Anything is possible within the scope of an open-world game. It's why it's called open-world.
[QUOTE=stepat201;34069340]Frankly I just don't believe this is true, I believe that because no one has totally pulled it off yet, people might not realize it's possible. The Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion was pretty damn character driven considering it had the best written, most memorable characters in Elder Scrolls history, and it's underlying plot was almost non-existent, with an incredibly slow build-up to the (actually satisfying for once) climax. Anything is possible within the scope of an open-world game. It's why it's called open-world.[/QUOTE] Sandbox gameplay is driven entirely by the player. There's a reason why cutscenes are such a big thing for games with storylines. All of the plot for the Dark Brotherhood (excluding that found in books) is delivered through pre-scripted dialogue. You can't [I]give[/I] the player a story when he/she is busy creating their own through open gameplay.
[QUOTE=rinoaff33;34069395]Sandbox gameplay is driven entirely by the player. There's a reason why cutscenes are such a big thing for games with storylines. All of the plot for the Dark Brotherhood (excluding that found in books) is delivered through pre-scripted dialogue. You can't [I]give[/I] the player a story when he/she is busy creating their own through open gameplay.[/QUOTE] I know that, I'm simply saying that the story which is presented through dialogue can actually be good and nuanced for a change. Cutscenes have never been necessary. Half-Life and Deus Ex proved over a decade ago that games are better off without them. And there's no reason why there can't be more legroom within the confines of the story than we currently have.
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