Id love to see valve make their engine good for new genres. Like massive open worlds. Easy to make terrain.. perhaps even something to help randomly generate parts of the terrain for those huge worlds. Easy to make roads/rivers. individual character/vehicle/tree generation etc.
[QUOTE=rebel1324;38675297]I assume they are just jiggle bones.[/QUOTE]
I don't think they are in DOTA, i think its 'proper' cloth physics.
[QUOTE=The Jack;38675596] randomly generate parts of the terrain [/QUOTE]
As far as I know the only random generation Valve's done in terms of level design is with tilegen in Alien Swarm. Doesn't seem likely they'd do it for complex parts of the world in a half-life game. That being said, I would love to see proper random level generation on source. Snuck a look at alien swarm code a week or two ago with the intention of modifying tilegen for that purpose but had no idea what I was doing.
It should probably work but it would produce some bad outdoorlevels.
[QUOTE=p0rtalplayer;38679436]As far as I know the only random generation Valve's done in terms of level design is with tilegen in Alien Swarm. Doesn't seem likely they'd do it for complex parts of the world in a half-life game. That being said, I would love to see proper random level generation on source. Snuck a look at alien swarm code a week or two ago with the intention of modifying tilegen for that purpose but had no idea what I was doing.[/QUOTE]
Valve could use random generation or semi random generation to quickly make forests for half life or l4d. Furthermore if valve ever decided to make an Rpg game (From a feudal setting to a galactic sim) Even in a linear shooter it might be good to have easy to create backrounds. Furthermore i don't think valve would ever randomly generate everything (unless they had the greatest algorithms ever) But perhaps they might just paint some of their level with a computer's art? undoubtedly later going over the art to make sure all is well. I don't want to have to put down a load of trees to create a forrest. i just want to tell the edditor where im putting trees
look at it this way.
generated trees= Good for every genre.
generated rocks=Good for every genre
generated terrain
-open worlded games= Less effort on world design.
-less open worlded games= Nicer backrounds
Generated characters
Non rpg games = Unique faces, varied bodies, varied temperament, different animations (refuge's showing less proficiency than rebels for example)
Rpg games= Same thing. With skill points?
Generated cities.
It probably wouldn't be worth it too create such a system for any game with one or two cities in. Unless of course we're considering cities to be collections of detached buildings. But in any project that's huge... it might be at least a good idea to randomly populate the interiors of buildings.
[QUOTE=The Jack;38680866]Valve could use random generation or semi random generation to quickly make forests for half life or l4d. Furthermore if valve ever decided to make an Rpg game (From a feudal setting to a galactic sim) Even in a linear shooter it might be good to have easy to create backrounds. Furthermore i don't think valve would ever randomly generate everything (unless they had the greatest algorithms ever) But perhaps they might just paint some of their level with a computer's art? undoubtedly later going over the art to make sure all is well. I don't want to have to put down a load of trees to create a forrest. i just want to tell the edditor where im putting trees
look at it this way.
generated trees= Good for every genre.
generated rocks=Good for every genre
generated terrain
-open worlded games= Less effort on world design.
-less open worlded games= Nicer backrounds
Generated characters
Non rpg games = Unique faces, varied bodies, varied temperament, different animations (refuge's showing less proficiency than rebels for example)
Rpg games= Same thing. With skill points?
Generated cities.
It probably wouldn't be worth it too create such a system for any game with one or two cities in. Unless of course we're considering cities to be collections of detached buildings. But in any project that's huge... it might be at least a good idea to randomly populate the interiors of buildings.[/QUOTE]
Procedural / Generated cities where a sorta big thing in 06-08, Nvidia worked quite a bit (They had a working tech-demo at one point, everything was generated / placed by a computer, looked realistic)
Also, still some people are working on it
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDrALvAqsaI[/media]
A few things I would like to see in hammer 5 (Presuming thats what the version will be for the source 2 hammer) is:
Real-time what see is what you get (viewport)
Get rid of the compiling process and have vbsp to be a real-time
And a better and improved I/O system similar to Hammer 4.1! :v:
[QUOTE=stargate660;39353176]A few things I would like to see in hammer 5 (Presuming thats what the version will be for the source 2 hammer) is:
Real-time what see is what you get (viewport)
Get rid of the compiling process and have vbsp to be a real-time
And a better and improved I/O system similar to Hammer 4.1! :v:[/QUOTE]
No, I think they'll either ditch hammer entirely or so completely change the framework for it that it won't be called Hammer any more. At least, I hope not. Personally I'm hoping for a real-time ingame editor (like SFM meets unreal) or something similar.
[QUOTE=p0rtalplayer;39359445]No, I think they'll either ditch hammer entirely or so completely change the framework for it that it won't be called Hammer any more. At least, I hope not. Personally I'm hoping for a real-time ingame editor (like SFM meets unreal) or something similar.[/QUOTE]
I think the best would be something like Natural selection 2's editor. It combines real-time editing, with sketchup and hammer, which is just kinda awesome.
[QUOTE]Source 2 will have a new SDK and every tool will interface with the Workshop, so we can find maps, mods, models, presets, frameworks, scripts, etc. We'll start seeing more, larger, and higher quality Source 2 mods on Steam. The map editor will be as friendly as the Portal 2 Puzzle Maker, but will have features found in your more robust editors (like Hammer). Inspired by Skyrim's 11 month reveal-to-release strategy, Half-Life 3 will be officially announced in an ARG and released later in the year. OpenGL is faster than DirectX, according to Valve, so Source 2 will be OpenGL first, DX second. They will throw out the BSP format and the engine will use the sparse voxel octree data structure[/QUOTE]
I've been seeing this copypasta'd fucking everywhere lately and the only source I can pin down is from a volunteer mod on the steam forums.
I can't tell if this is an attempt at fake news, an educated guess, a ballsy prediction, or (least likely thing that I really want to be true) actual insider info (but he's just a damn mod tho). I'm going to be investigating further but some assistance/copycats would be awesome.
[QUOTE]The map editor will be as friendly as the Portal 2 Puzzle Maker, but will have features found in your more robust editors (like Hammer).[/QUOTE]
This part doesn't make much sense to me at all.
[QUOTE=xalener;39362490]I've been seeing this copypasta'd fucking everywhere lately and the only source I can pin down is from a volunteer mod on the steam forums.
I can't tell if this is an attempt at fake news, an educated guess, a ballsy prediction, or (least likely thing that I really want to be true) actual insider info [B](but he's just a damn mod tho)[/B]. I'm going to be investigating further but some assistance/copycats would be awesome.[/QUOTE]
I think the mods are somewhat informed about some things, but they're bound by some sort of NDA to not talk about what they know unless Valve gives them the OK. Oh, also:
[quote=Some guy]They will throw out the BSP format and the engine will use the sparse voxel octree data structure[/quote]
I could've sworn that John Carmack had something like that planned for his newest rendition of iD Tech.
[quote]
Source 2 will have a new SDK and every tool will interface with the Workshop, so we can find maps, mods, models, presets, frameworks, scripts, etc. We'll start seeing more, larger, and higher quality Source 2 mods on Steam. The map editor will be as friendly as the Portal 2 Puzzle Maker, but will have features found in your more robust editors (like Hammer). Inspired by Skyrim's 11 month reveal-to-release strategy, Half-Life 3 will be officially announced in an ARG and released later in the year. OpenGL is faster than DirectX, according to Valve, so Source 2 will be OpenGL first, DX second. They will throw out the BSP format and the engine will use the sparse voxel octree data structure[/quote]
I have a hard time beliving this is really from a mod: Since VALVe already stated that the OpenGL was faster because of some fixes or optimizations they never / forgot to use in DirectX, and that they had fixed them so DX was just as fast.
I would love something as powerful as Hammer + Houdini for Source2. And as for HL3/EP3: I think they'll do a ARG with content, then wait a few months: then do the followup ARG that continues to the release (Which for P2 was 1-2 months)
BSP is getting kind of old, but I don't know if that means sparse voxel octree.
[QUOTE=cardboardtheory;39363326]BSP is getting kind of old, but I don't know if that means sparse voxel octree.[/QUOTE]
What exactly is the advantage of Sparce Voxel Octree over Binary Space Partitioning? Wikipedia has a bunch of technical gobbledygook on both, though from using the Source engine for several years I have a pretty good idea of how BSP works.
[QUOTE=p0rtalplayer;39363421]What exactly is the advantage of Sparce Voxel Octree over Binary Space Partitioning? Wikipedia has a bunch of technical gobbledygook on both, though from using the Source engine for several years I have a pretty good idea of how BSP works.[/QUOTE]
It has voxels in it, of course it is better.
[QUOTE=hogofwar;39365685]It has voxels in it, of course it is better.[/QUOTE]
correct me if Im wrong but I thought "voxel" were a type of like Fortresscraft, Dwarf Fortress (or what ever its called), minecraft, etc, the list goes on, I didn't think it was a map type like BSP was.
[QUOTE=stargate660;39365787]correct me if Im wrong but I thought "voxel" were a type of like Fortresscraft, Dwarf Fortress (or what ever its called), minecraft, etc, the list goes on, I didn't think it was a map type like BSP was.[/QUOTE]
Voxels are like Pixels in an image, there's 3 axes instead of two.
Source 2 might have support for Voxels, but I don't think it would be centred around them.
Unless it works like [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x5NPVel3dw"]sauerbraten[/URL], in which case it[I] could[/I] potentially be extremely god damn[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1gjbGlYpPo"] flexible[/URL].
But That's not exactly the same method.
This is waaaaaaay late, I know, but I just started reading this thread, so....
Is this a completely new engine, or just a major update of the current one?
[QUOTE=danharibo;39365999]Voxels are like Pixels in an image, there's 3 axes instead of two.[/QUOTE]
essentially 3d pixels or cube-pixels
[QUOTE=CAPT Opp4;39373633]This is waaaaaaay late, I know, but I just started reading this thread, so....
Is this a completely new engine, or just a major update of the current one?[/QUOTE]
a new engine with similar traits to Source.
[QUOTE=Cronos Dage;39373707]essentially 3d pixels or cube-pixels
a new engine with similar traits to Source.[/QUOTE]
We don't know this for sure. Source was considered a new engine but technically it's built off goldsrc. Though given they're opting to rebuild it rather than keep adding on, I guess it is a pretty good possiblity.
I imagine building Source2 from scratch would serve better in the long run, rather than just doing what Valve's been doing for the past ten years or so and just shoving more features on top of Source, and turning it into what I'm sure must be a cluttered mess of code by now.
[QUOTE=stargate660;39353176]A few things I would like to see in hammer 5 (Presuming thats what the version will be for the source 2 hammer) is:
Real-time what see is what you get (viewport)
Get rid of the compiling process and have vbsp to be a real-time
And a better and improved I/O system similar to Hammer 4.1! :v:[/QUOTE]
Just thought off another feature valve could add to the Source 2 SDK- a "inhouse" model editor so we can build models within the engine, save it as (presumably) .VSMD and the export it as a .VMDL (ineditor)! Something like in the amnesia SDK.
[QUOTE=stargate660;39376465]Just thought off another feature valve could add to the Source 2 SDK- a "inhouse" model editor so we can build models within the engine, save it as (presumably) .VSMD and the export it as a .VMDL (ineditor)! Something like in the amnesia SDK.[/QUOTE]
From the "leaked" files found in sfm/game/platform/tools before they removed it:
[img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/6438249/appicon_mdleditor.png[/img]
That's the only thing in the "model_editor" folder though, so either it was a newly introduced feature at the time of the leak, or they scrapped the idea.
I would wish for basics of a model editor to be included in the SDK, like being able to remove polygons, add sections from other models onto it, resize and create basic models.
what fan-made hellspawn would that make
Hammer is ultimate AIDS.
[QUOTE=TextQUAKE;39396560]Hammer is ultimate AIDS.[/QUOTE]
except it always goes away and, well
it's worse than aids.
[QUOTE=Shirky;39383053]I would wish for basics of a model editor to be included in the SDK, like being able to remove polygons, add sections from other models onto it, resize and create basic models.[/QUOTE]
but then that's an entirely new tool you have to learn - if you're going to learn you might as well pick a proper modeling package?
[QUOTE=Juniez;39398259]but then that's an entirely new tool you have to learn - if you're going to learn you might as well pick a proper modeling package?[/QUOTE]
this. as long as I can resize models in the level editor I'll be happy. Another cool thing to have would be a way to "merge" selected models so they use a single draw call, I think UDK has that.
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